Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th August 2013, 09:48   #136
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Suzuki officials must be banging their head for the rather minimal refresh they gave the car in 2011. Although the car still looks good and youthful, the age shows! Moreover, they missed a good opportunity to redesign the DZire to a proper sedan.
+1. I'm one who booked the face lifted Swift 2 years back. But felt like cancelling it the more I visited the showroom to see the car in reality. It felt like an eye wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
However, still do feel they will just about manage to keep sales going. If nothing else works, Maruti will play the VFM card- slashing prices have almost always worked for them.
Even though Maruti is producing close to 1 lakh cars per month, they are running on a very slender margin ( mainly due to the 5% royalty charges that Maruti is forced to pay Suzuki ). So it would be very interesting if they do that. They might as well take losses till they come up with another competent model. Ertiga is a very good design for example. We need more such designs from Maruti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
The real game starts when the Hyundai diesels join the small car party!
Maruti has a counter plan for that. Their 800cc Suzuki 2 cylinder turbo charged diesel is getting ready!
amalji is online now  
Old 8th August 2013, 10:53   #137
BHPian
 
tbppjpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: India
Posts: 587
Thanked: 479 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Suzuki officials must be banging their head for the rather minimal refresh they gave the car in 2011. Although the car still looks good and youthful, the age shows!
If you mean to say the new Swift is just a 'refresh' then you are wrong. The new Swift is completly a different car than the old Swift which is developed on a completely different platform and doesn't use any single panel from the old model.


Quote:
they missed a good opportunity to redesign the DZire to a proper sedan. However, still do feel they will just about manage to keep sales going. If nothing else works, Maruti will play the VFM card- slashing prices have almost always worked for them.
Agree. Whatever it was, it clicked.

Quote:
The real game starts when the Hyundai diesels join the small car party!
Hyundai already has a Swift rival in form of i20.

Its true that Maruti is going to face biggest hit form the day by day increasing competition but its not gonna happen anytime soon. Maybe we see a different market scenario after next 5 or 10 years. Maruti may not be having huge market sahre like 40%+ like what they have today but still they will remain on top position even after the changed market scenario because of the reach they have in small towns and villages, whereas the other manufacturers have proven themselves as lazy enough about caring for those small centers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I would any day prefer a Toyota spare like the life time fuel filters, life time transmission fluids, etc. Which costs 25 % more than a Maruti, but lasts 500% more than a Maruti.
Doesn't that life time fuel filter need any cleaning at the time of servicing? If not than I am really wondering why the others are not providing such fuel filters. If it needs cleaning then what are the labor charges for cleaning?

About the transmission fluid, its life time in most of the cars these days. Coolant is also said to be life time. (here life time also has a limit of like 1L kms, 1.5l kms etc).

Last edited by tbppjpr : 8th August 2013 at 10:58.
tbppjpr is offline  
Old 8th August 2013, 11:18   #138
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Doesn't that life time fuel filter need any cleaning at the time of servicing?
No, it does not need cleaning. It's part of a very durable fuel system from Denso. Tried and tested in the innova, and used again in the Etios.

In Nippon Toyota, Cochin they have replaced the fuel filter of Etios only once and that was after the car covered 1,60,000 kms ( and no, the extra zero is not a typo. :-) )

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
If not than I am really wondering why the others are not providing such fuel filters. If it needs cleaning then what are the labor charges for cleaning?
I guess it's part of the special fuel system from Denso and cannot be used in isolation.
And since there is no cleaning, the labour associated with it is an absolute zero. It's because of parts like these that a 12 lakh MUV - innova is cheaper to maintain than a 6 lakh car aka swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
About the transmission fluid, its life time in most of the cars these days. Coolant is also said to be life time. (here life time also has a limit of like 1L kms, 1.5l kms etc).
Not so with the Maruti Swift. They replace both every 20,000 kms. The Toyota coolant in comparison has a replacement interval of 1.5 lakh kms.
amalji is online now  
Old 8th August 2013, 11:39   #139
Senior - BHPian
 
aniketi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,270
Thanked: 711 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
During such changing times, customer is always the winner. And I do hope, Maruti starts giving importance to space and ergonomics. Not to mention their high maintenance cost.

And no, the Dzire is not selling like hot cakes anymore. Both the Dzire as well as the Swift sales has come down by 25% and 35% respectively. And that was the maximum impact Honda could have given considering the 2 aspects.
1. It has a production limitation of 10000 cars per month.
2. Its sales and service reach is not good in the small towns.

Point 1 will be taken care of by Honda within an year. Point 2 will take time. Probably 3-4 years. So, it's going to be a gradual drop.

But in metros and cities where Honda has a presence, Maruti is going to be rolled over.

And no, it's absolutely not a plus for Maruti when the waiting period is zero. They just had to stop one shift at Manesar and send the employees for unpaid vacation. That's certainly not good news for Maruti.



For a petrol car, that's indeed expensive. It's expensive than a Toyota, Nissan, Mahindra, and even Ford.
For petrol engines, the difference might be just 2k per year, but for Diesels the difference can be as much as 4k per year! Check out the swift diesel ownership threads to understand more.
Overall sales are down, all are suffering so sales are down for Dzire as well. If market comes up, sales will also go up. And for car like Dzire, selling more than 15K a month considering all the competition is tremendous i guess. I dont think Honda can manage that even if production is up for it.

Less than 4 k per year for Maruti is expensive by2 k for others ??? I am surprised. So other cars like Etios, Figo, Verito costs less than 2 k only per year for yearly maintenance including engine oil change, coolant change, other oils, filters etc ??? I don't believe it. Can others please confirm this ? If yes, then its amazing.
aniketi is offline  
Old 8th August 2013, 12:05   #140
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Overall sales are down, all are suffering so sales are down for Dzire as well. If market comes up, sales will also go up. And for car like Dzire, selling more than 15K a month considering all the competition is tremendous i guess. I dont think Honda can manage that even if production is up for it.
The fact remains that the 30% dip in sales for the swift and dzire happened after the release of amaze. And with regards to waiting period, the dip was almost instant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Less than 4 k per year for Maruti is expensive by2 k for others ??? I am surprised. So other cars like Etios, Figo, Verito costs less than 2 k only per year for yearly maintenance including engine oil change, coolant change, other oils, filters etc ??? I don't believe it. Can others please confirm this ? If yes, then its amazing.
Very easy, check the ownership thread of an Etios petrol owner and check for 10,000 kms service cost. If my memory is correct, it was around 1700. The logic is very simple. Maruti spares are replaced much quicker than the competition. On an Etios, you replace oil, oil filter, and wind screen washer fluid. That's it.
amalji is online now  
Old 8th August 2013, 12:12   #141
RSR
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,621
Thanked: 4,538 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Off-topic: Fiat reduced the cost of spares and also the labour charges as soon as the new company started in April. This fact was mentioned by Mr Mishra (head of After Sales division at the new Fiat India company) during a presentation at Fiat Caffe in Bangalore, 2 weeks back. He also mentioned that Punto will be cheapest to maintain in its category, due to its 15,000 KM service interval.
Good! I believe they are "making all the right moves" then Once they get the basics in place, sales numbers would automatically follow. Only the hardcore Fiat lovers seem to be buying the Punto and Linea now. If they launch new products, the common car buying public would also flock to their showrooms, at least to take a good look, if not buy the cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Spare parts cost doesn't convey anything regarding the actual maintenance cost of the vehicle if the durability or parts replacement interval is not studied. The only thing it does is it helps the manufacturer do an eye wash.

For eg:- in reality, Toyota, Mahindra, Ford costs much lesser than a Maruti or Hyundai to maintain.
Regarding the pricing , I would any day prefer a Toyota spare like the life time fuel filters, life time transmission fluids, etc. Which costs 25 % more than a Maruti, but lasts 500% more than a Maruti.
Both yes, and no!

Spare part costs alone do not indicate the maintenance costs, and this was clearly mentioned in the report itself.

Parts cost are NOT an eyewash by any stretch of the imagination! They include not only routine maintenance items, but also mechanical parts and accident replacement parts. It indicates the damage that would be done to one's pocket should the car, God forbid, meet with an accident or suffer any mechanical or external damage due to unforeseen or unavoidable reasons. So parts prices are a very important thing that a car buyer has to take into consideration.

25% more in cost but 500% more in life? The Etios Liva and Etios spare parts price basket were, on average, about 50% more than the parts basket of their Maruti Suzuki competitors, the Ritz and the Dzire respectively. In fact, the Etios diesel twins had the highest parts basket cost in their respective classes. Costs of petrol Etios' basket were also high compared to the competition.

The life of Maruti Suzuki mechanical components are quite high. They are Japanese after all. We've had a 5-speed 12-valve Mpi 800 before, and it was not only extremely cheap to maintain (very low cost of routine maintenance items), no mechanical part failed over nearly 8 years and 45k km of driving in mostly stop-and-go city traffic for relatively short distances by multiple drivers, the kind of driving that does most damage to the engine. Even the suspension took the pounding it often received without giving up. Toyotas and Hondas may be ultra reliable, but Suzuki and the other Japs and even Hyundai are quite close to them on the reliability front.

For a layman who goes by the dealership's advice (rather than the owner's manual) on maintenance schedules and says yes to everything the SA wants to include, the total cost of ownership of a Maruti Suzuki would be more than that of a comparable Toyota, yes. But for someone who is knowledgeable enough about cars and spares, a Suzuki's total maintenance costs (in India) would at par with, if not lower than, a comparable Toyota.

Indians are aware of and highly averse to high maintenance costs and unreliability. This, along with other reasons, gets reflected in the monthly sales chart numbers.

Last edited by RSR : 8th August 2013 at 12:31.
RSR is offline  
Old 8th August 2013, 13:14   #142
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Spare part costs alone do not indicate the maintenance costs, and this was clearly mentioned in the report itself.
That's exactly my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Parts cost are NOT an eyewash by any stretch of the imagination! They include not only routine maintenance items, but also mechanical parts and accident replacement parts. It indicates the damage that would be done to one's pocket should the car, God forbid, meet with an accident or suffer any mechanical or external damage due to unforeseen or unavoidable reasons. So parts prices are a very important thing that a car buyer has to take into consideration.
1. You don't buy a car to bang it on an yearly basis.
2. Now consider it does bang, use your insurance. I've replaced 2 tyres 1 alloy, 1 tail lamp and the rear bumper using insurance. Total expense from my pocket - 1500. And this would be the same for any car. And that's exactly the reason why you pay for insurance premium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
25% more in cost but 500% more in life? The Etios Liva and Etios spare parts price basket were, on average, about 50% more than the parts basket of their Maruti Suzuki competitors, the Ritz and the Dzire respectively. In fact, the Etios diesel twins had the highest parts basket cost in their respective classes. Costs of petrol Etios' basket were also high compared to the competition.
OK, I approximated both the price as well as the life. If I correct both, it becomes 750% extra life for 50% extra cost. The equation still doesn't change. A Toyota is any day cheaper to maintain than a Swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
The life of Maruti Suzuki mechanical components are quite high. They are Japanese after all.
No, they are not Japanese. Most parts used in the swift is MGP and they are all Indian and are replaced quite frequently ( more frequent than even an American manufacturer like Ford ). It's the SGP that's Japanese.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
We've had a 5-speed 12-valve Mpi 800 before, and it was not only extremely cheap to maintain (very low cost of routine maintenance items), no mechanical part failed over nearly 8 years and 45k km of driving in mostly stop-and-go city traffic for relatively short distances by multiple drivers, the kind of driving that does most damage to the engine. Even the suspension took the pounding it often received without giving up. Toyotas and Hondas may be ultra reliable, but Suzuki and the other Japs and even Hyundai are quite close to them on the reliability front.
No one is complaining here about M 800 or the Zen. They were ultra cheap to maintain. Not so with the swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
For a layman who goes by the dealership's advice (rather than the owner's manual) on maintenance schedules and says yes to everything the SA wants to include, the total cost of ownership of a Maruti Suzuki would be more than that of a comparable Toyota, yes. But for someone who is knowledgeable enough about cars and spares, a Suzuki's total maintenance costs (in India) would at par with, if not lower than, a comparable Toyota.
Disagree.
1. For a layman who say yes to everything, the cost would be comparable to Skoda. ( around 150% higher than a Toyota )
2. For a person who sticks to Maruti's service interval, the cost would be 75% to 100% higher than a comparable Toyota.
Now, Forget about cars in the same segment. A swift is costlier to maintain than an Innova ( twice its price ), if you just stick to what Maruti has recommended in their manual!

Check the ownership threads for more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Indians are aware of and highly averse to high maintenance costs and unreliability. This, along with other reasons, gets reflected in the monthly sales chart numbers.
Unfortunately, Indians are still under a halo effect. We still think Maruti is cheap to maintain mainly due to the history with likes of 800 and the Zen.

Last edited by amalji : 8th August 2013 at 13:21.
amalji is online now  
Old 8th August 2013, 13:24   #143
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,192
Thanked: 4,249 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Toyotas and Hondas may be ultra reliable, but Suzuki and the other Japs and even Hyundai are quite close to them on the reliability front.
I think Toyota, Honda & Suzuki are just like peer groups in Japan. Only because Suzuki in India came & captured the A/ B segment first (read cheap cars) does not mean that it is somewhere down the chain against Honda.

And surely the Japanese & Koreans are right up there on reliability grounds.
saket77 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th August 2013, 13:50   #144
RSR
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,621
Thanked: 4,538 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
That's exactly my point.



1. You don't buy a car to bang it on an yearly basis.
2. Now consider it does bang, use your insurance. I've replaced 2 tyres 1 alloy, 1 tail lamp and the rear bumper using insurance. Total expense from my pocket - 1500. And this would be the same for any car. And that's exactly the reason why you pay for insurance premium.



OK, I approximated both the price as well as the life. If I correct both, it becomes 750% extra life for 50% extra cost. The equation still doesn't change. A Toyota is any day cheaper to maintain than a Swift.



No, they are not Japanese. Most parts used in the swift is MGP and they are all Indian and are replaced quite frequently ( more frequent than even an American manufacturer like Ford ). It's the SGP that's Japanese.



No one is complaining here about M 800 or the Zen. They were ultra cheap to maintain. Not so with the swift.



Disagree.
1. For a layman who say yes to everything, the cost would be comparable to Skoda. ( around 150% higher than a Toyota )
2. For a person who sticks to Maruti's service interval, the cost would be 75% to 100% higher than a comparable Toyota.

Check the ownership threads for more info.



Unfortunately, Indians are still under a halo effect. We still think Maruti is cheap to maintain mainly due to the history with likes of 800 and the Zen.
> I guess anyone who knows his/her cars is aware of the difference between total ownership costs and spare parts prices.

> Nobody buys a car to bang it regularly. I said they are unforeseen, unavoidable and unfortunate. God forbid it, but if it does happen, a Maruti would not burn a hole in the pocket as much as a Toyota would.

> Insurance? So insurance completely covers everything? No way, not even the zero depreciation ones come close to covering everything. Some damages are flatly refused if they fall outside the stringent conditions (applicable for all cars). So one would still pay much more to repair a damaged Toyota than a damaged Suzuki.

> What about the no claim bonus (NCB)? If the part is priced lower than the NCB, one can buy it and save the NCB for the next year. It cannot be done with a high priced part. Suzuki scores over Toyota here.

> The equation does change a lot. You mention one part or two. What about the rest? And the Etios Liva should be compared with the Ritz. The Swift is a sub-segment higher.

> So the Ritz, Swift and Dzire are "Indian" while the Liva and Etios roll out of a factory in Japan, right? Why, Toyota even thinks the Liva and Etios are meant only for Third World countries such as India (which I find to be degrading and rather disgusting), while Suzuki believes the Ritz and Swift are good enough to be sold to the First World Europeans and Japanese. See the difference? Jap car for the Third World (Toyota) versus Jap car for the First World (Suzuki)!

> The 800 and Zen are cheaper than a Ritz or Swift, no doubt. That doesn't mean the Ritz, Swift and Dzire cost a bomb to maintain. Done the right way, they are not more expensive than a comparable Toyota in the long run. I've paid to maintain a company-owned Swift diesel (first gen, BSIII) for about 55k km, after the car had already been (ab)used for 30k km by different company drivers. I found no cause to complain about maintenance costs - they were reasonable and just as much as I had expected. So I speak from experience, and not just hearsay.

> Even if the Toyota turns out to be cheaper as far as routine maintenance at periodic intervals goes, which I don't doubt, that is just that - routine services. What about mechanical parts and body parts. Toyota parts are priced very high compared to the Suzuki's, and the reliability is about at par for the two.

> Actually, some Indians are under the halo effect more for Toyota - "the largest car maker in the world". So they blindly buy cars that Toyota deems fit to sell only to Third Worlders. Toyota would lose heavily if private buyers only bought each car on its merit and not on the brand and badge it carries. I won't even get started on the glaring, shocking levels of cost cutting on the Etios twins, which Maruti Suzuki, thankfully, does not indulge in, in the same segments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
And surely the Japanese & Koreans are right up there on reliability grounds.
I whole-heartedly agree The difference between Toyota & Honda on the one hand, and Suzuki, Nissan, Mitsubishi and even Hyundai on the other, as far as reliability is concerned is marginal or very small at best, and negligible at worst.

Last edited by RSR : 8th August 2013 at 14:20.
RSR is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 8th August 2013, 14:17   #145
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 390
Thanked: 346 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Maruti spares were, in general, the cheapest of the lot. Hyundai was second and not far behind Maruti Suzuki across segments. No surprises therefore, that these two manufacturers occupy the top two slots in the Indian car market.

The real surprise was Fiat. Punto and Linea spares were quite cheap and very close to the leaders. This was quite surprising, considering the fact that Fiat in India does not have the economies of scale compared to Maruti or Hyundai.

Tata spares were also reasonably priced, with the Nano unsurprisingly having the cheapest spare part price basket for any car sold in India. Companies like Nissan, Renault, Chevrolet and Ford followed on the list with
IMO, cost of spares is only a very small part of the story-
- Toyota spares may be expensive, but they last the distance, never fail and are always available. As the owner of 170,000 Km Innova, take my word for it.
- Tata's spares may be cheap, but who wants cheap? My Indica still does not have a cabin light (never in stock when I visit the A$$), key remote is pain and has already broken once and is so sensitive, it unlocks the car with slight pressure even in proximate areas of the button. Happened to me inside my pajama pocket (leave alone denims). I am willing to pay Toyota costs as long as these are available and they work, but they aren't and they don't.

Such examples abound. I'm buying an Ertiga now - it has a value proposition that no one else has (how I wish we had the Avanza here) - I'm sure I'll experience life beyong spare parts cost in MSIL soon enough.
Contrapunto is offline  
Old 8th August 2013, 14:22   #146
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> Nobody buys a car to bang it regularly. I said they are unforeseen, unavoidable and unfortunate. God forbid it, but if it does happen, a Maruti would not burn a hole in the pocket as much as a Toyota would.
> Insurance? So insurance completely covers everything? No way, not even the zero depreciation ones come close to covering everything. Some damages are flatly refused if they fall outside the stringent conditions (applicable for all cars). So one would still pay much more to repair a damaged Toyota than a damaged Suzuki.
The Toyota zero depreciation insurance covers absolutely everything. All you have to pay is Rs. 1000/- whatever the damages might be. People used to Toyota will understand what I'm saying. They go out of the way for a customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> What about the no claim bonus? If the part is priced low, one can buy it and save the NCB for the next year. It cannot be done with a high priced part. Suzuki scores over Toyota here.
So, this is your hypothesis.
1. The car has to bang.
2. The cost of repair for all accidents in an year has to be less than 7000
3. I should have a no claim bonus to save on.

Fine, for a starter, the probability of all of this happening together on an year might be less than 5%. Now, even if all of these conditions are met for a particular year, how much really do you save? Approximately 2,000, right ? That's less than the difference you pay extra for annual service of a Swift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> The equation does change a lot. You mention one part or two. What about the rest? And the Etios Liva should be compared with the Ritz. The Swift is a sub-segment higher.
The Liva owners should feel proud about this statement. Because inspite of being a sub segment lower, they still get more cabin space, boot space and even better brakes. Now, forget all that. We'll do the comparison with the Ritz. The cost of maintenance hold true even there. As I said numerous times before, forget about segments. A swift is costlier to maintain than an Innova. Period!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> So the Ritz, Swift and Dzire are "Indian" while the Liva and Etios roll out of a factory in Japan, right?
Fine, now when did I say that the Etios has Japanese parts? I just corrected your statement that Swift is made of Japanese parts and hence it would last. Now for your information, the Etios diesel engine and transmission are imported straight from Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Why, Toyota even thinks the Liva and Etios are meant only for Third World countries such as India (which I find to be degrading and rather disgusting), while Suzuki believes the Ritz and Swift are good enough to be sold to the First World Europeans and Japanese. See the difference? Jap car for the Third World (Toyota) versus Jap car for the First World (Suzuki)!
Very simple, Toyota doesn't want to compromise on the fundamentals of a car whether it's made for 3rd world country or a European country. So they compromised on the interior looks rather than the fundamentals or the durability to keep the price at manageable levels. And FYI, Etios is the number 3 best seller in south Africa where it competes with a wider range of cars than in India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> The 800 and Zen are cheaper than a Ritz or Swift, no doubt. That doesn't mean the Ritz, Swift and Dzire cost a bomb to maintain. Done the right way, they are not more expensive than a comparable Toyota in the long run.
If I go very conservative with the maintenance cost of a Maruti, it will still cost around 60 to 70 paise per km for maintaining it. A Toyota would cost around 40 to 45 paise per km. Whether, you agree or not, that's the reality.
Now, you need to also consider the fact that Toyota doesn't force synthetic oil on its customers. By default, if you don't ask specifically for the synthetic, they fill the mineral oil. And the innovas which has run lakhs of kms has done it on the mineral oil. If I calculate the maintenance cost based on mineral oil, the service cost would be around 25 paise per km.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> Even if the Toyota turns out to be cheaper as far as routine maintenance at periodic intervals goes, which I don't doubt, that is just that - routine services. What about mechanical parts and body parts. Toyota parts are priced very high compared to the Suzuki's, and the reliability is about at par for the two.
As I told, they last longer just like the regular replacement parts. There are innovas which still run smooth after covering 4 lakh kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
> Actually, some Indians are under the halo effect more for Toyota - "the largest car maker in the world". So they blindly buy cars that Toyota deems fit to sell only to Third Worlders. Toyota would lose heavily if private buyers only bought each car on its merit and not on the brand and badge it carries.
OK, now we'll consider the taxi segment. What's their motive? To gain profit, right? Will they go and buy a car because of the halo effect? I'm not going to make any conclusions here. Viewers according to their own intelligence can decide on the conclusion.

Last edited by amalji : 8th August 2013 at 14:31.
amalji is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 8th August 2013, 14:46   #147
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,663 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Note from Support

This is a sales analysis thread.
It is a not for maintenance cost comparison.

Off topic posts beyond this note shall be deleted.

Thanks,
Support Team

bblost is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 8th August 2013, 15:01   #148
RSR
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,621
Thanked: 4,538 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
The Toyota zero depreciation insurance covers absolutely everything. All you have to pay is Rs. 1000/- whatever the damages might be. People used to Toyota will understand what I'm saying. That go out of the way for a customer.

> Zero depreciation insurance is done by insurance (and not car manufacturing) companies and should be the same for all car companies. I see no advantage for Toyota here. Goodwill, if any, depends on the dealer and the relationship between the SA and customer, irrespective of brand.

> It's not merely my "hypothesis". It's the painful reality, whether you or Toyota like it or not. Accidents and damages can happen to any car in the most unforeseen circumstances and one has to be prepared for it by comparing accident damage parts' prices before buying a car. Suzuki scores here by having much cheaper parts than Toyota. Kudos to them!

> The Ritz owners should be very proud of their cars indeed, then! Because despite being a sub-segment lower, the Ritz has all the basics included which Toyota shamelessly chose to omit, you know, things as simple as door beadings and weather strips, roof beadings, windshield beadings, second reverse lamp, second boot strut and so on and on and on.

> A Swift is costlier to maintain than an Innova? One swallow does not make a summer. One or two examples of Swifts with high maintenance costs does not compare to one or two Innovas with low maintenance costs.

> Please don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say the Swift was made of Japanese parts? I said, it is Japanese (in design and origin and car making culture). It was you who were too eager to claim Maruti's parts are "Indian" while Toyota's are "Japanese". I know Toyota Diesel engines are imported from Japan. Suzuki Diesel engines made in India under license from Fiat are at par with them on quality and reliability. A Suzuki owner should be happy he is paying less for quality parts.

> If Toyota owners are happy with shockingly compromised and omitted basic parts (a whole load of them), then so be it! I and many others, would stay well away from a car that completely omits the most basic of parts, especially when one can get an equally reliable and worthy car from Suzuki with no compromises on either quality or reliability and no omission of basic fit-and-finish parts.

> South Africa is a Third World country. That just reinforces the point that Toyota can sell the Etios twins only to Third World people as they would not dare to sell such a car to the Europeans or Japanese. It's wonderful that Indians have companies like Maruti Suzuki, among many others, that sell their latest, uncompromised, highly reliable, quality cars meant for the First World in India. It shows respect for consumers. I, as a consumer, do not respect companies that have no respect for me or my fellows.

> Whether you like it or not, Toyota parts are very costly compared to Suzuki. If it costs less to maintain periodically, it is just one aspect. Periodic service costs are only a part of total ownership costs. Suzuki scores over Toyota on the aspect of spare parts costs.

> I know Swift diesels (and many other cars, in fact) that have covered lakhs of kilometres and still going strong. So what if Innovas can do the same?

> The taxi owners can buy what they want, on whatever criteria they choose, just like private buyers. Intelligent buyers choose each car on ITS OWN merit, as it suits their purpose. Informed buyers would be able to see right through the badge and halo effect, irrespective of who makes the car. I'm glad and delighted that many buyers in India are indeed becoming informed and intelligent and choosing the right car for themselves!

Edit: Oops! Just saw the moderator note. Of course, you're right mods, this is going off topic heavily. I'm sorry! will stop right here, irrespective of replies.

Please do whatever you should.

Last edited by Rehaan : 8th August 2013 at 18:47. Reason: Shortening quoted post. Leaving your post as it was from before you saw the warning. No more OT posts please!
RSR is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th August 2013, 23:42   #149
BHPian
 
giri1.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chennai
Posts: 402
Thanked: 230 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Nissan has sold only 829 units for micra Does this include micra active?
giri1.8 is offline  
Old 9th August 2013, 12:57   #150
Senior - BHPian
 
aniketi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,270
Thanked: 711 Times
Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

At the end of the day, whatever people say, Maruti is still number 1 in India. Maintaining almost 45 % share is not a joke with so much competition around. Now other companies like Honda, Toyota, Ford etc are here for well more than a decade now but still not able to understand Indian customers mentality completely. There numbers just shows that. People still don't have 100 % faith in them. So going forward, if these companies want to compete with Maruti, better they try to understand Indian people first. Then only they can be able to generate large numbers. Lets hope these companies will learn it faster.
aniketi is offline   (1) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
July 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis Aditya The Indian Car Scene 106 5th September 2014 21:13
January 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis GTO The Indian Car Scene 63 15th February 2014 10:12
July 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis GTO The Indian Car Scene 138 4th September 2012 10:52
July 2009 Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis vasudeva The Indian Car Scene 209 9th September 2009 13:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:45.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks