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Old 7th August 2013, 19:22   #121
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by nmo View Post
2) 10,000 km Service cycle. Your car would need to need to go once a year for Service.
Actually it is 15,000 km / 1 year service frequency

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If only they could price their Tjet / 90HP competitively and bring in 1.6L MJD on Linea...They could then knock off some nos from Verna / Vento / Rapid / City.
I don't believe their dismal sales has anything to do with their pricing. The T-Jet retails at around 1L rupees lesser than the Honda City V MT with leather, and 2 lac rupees lesser than City's V MT leather edition with sunroof and AVN. It can't get any more VFM that that, considering the extra tech specs and gizmos it comes with.

Ditto with the Punto 90HP. It is at least 30k cheaper than the i20 CRDi Asta (nearest diesel hatch in tech specs AND dimensions), without considering the discounts / freebies. With those subtracted, a Punto 90HP probably comes close to Swift ZDi territory in net pricing. Their dismal sales has more to do with their lack of advertising, and perceived weakness in service network strength/competence. Unless they aggressively take steps to rectify their bad reputation in both those areas, growth will continue to be slow in my opinion.

I definitely agree on the 1.6 MultiJet part though. Many buyers who test drive the Linea and then the Vento/Rapid end up buying the latter, citing the relatively underpowered engine as the main reason. the 1.6 MJD could drive some sales for the Linea, but that's still a long way off (2014 facelift).

Last edited by KarthikK : 7th August 2013 at 19:31.
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Old 7th August 2013, 19:37   #122
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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I guess it's the same for Maruti, Toyota, Ford, Nissan and Renault, right?
Not true in case of Nissan, particularly Sunny diesel. The servicing cost is actually quite high due to 6 month service interval rather than the standard 1 year interval which is the usual norm for the industry currently.

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Its all over the newspapers for all these years, a bit surprised that you missed it for so long!
Fiat over the last couple of months has indeed started aggressively advertising there cars and the discounts that are to be had. Also were they always offering such heavy discounts, without even bargaining?
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Old 7th August 2013, 20:22   #123
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

^^ yes they actually were. Anachronix is right. Discounts are being offered since donkey's years on Fiats here. It is nothing new. Just that the amount and the type of freebies have been varying over time. Sometimes, they give it in exchange bonus, sometimes as cash bonus, or insurance, sometimes as accessories (like the absolute edition pack last year). Even when I picked up my Punto sport in 2012 november, the on road price of 9.1L dropped to somewhere around 8.7 after discounts. So maybe their discounts are not the driving factor for sales growth. Bargaining is usually only with the dealer's margin. The max one could probably squeeze out from bargaining is a reverse sensor or something, not more than that.

As regards to their marketing being aggressive now, it is only during the first 2-3 weeks after every facelift / launch. Their advertisements then stop. I don't see any aggressive marketing from them through the past 4 years of them selling Puntos and Lineas here.

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Old 7th August 2013, 20:28   #124
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by rkbharat View Post
Sad situation at Tata. BTW need quick interpretation for a buyer of Storme:

1. Does the sale of Storme going down can result in new and completely revised version soon?
2. Can this sad situation be used for demanding more discounts?
3. What will be the future for the car and the owners, if it continue to go down on sale chart?
For a buyer of the Storme, I would advice - don't. At least wait for a few months and see. Reasons-
- Resale values will tank for market duds - not that Tata cars are known for stellar resale values. So unless you plan to hold your Storme for a generation, its not worth it.
- Parts availability will become a problem. I have already faced a lot of pain in replacing my key remote (how it happened is a Tata Motors story in itself for another day), cabin light - simple things like these the ubiquitous Indica ev2. Heaven forbid if you ever need to replace a door or body panel on a low selling model like the Storme .

Last edited by Contrapunto : 7th August 2013 at 20:29. Reason: typo
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Old 7th August 2013, 20:46   #125
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I guess it's the same for Maruti, Toyota, Ford, Nissan and Renault, right?
My bad. Fiat's Service cycle is 15,000 km compared to 10,000 km for most of the industry players.

Please check out: http://www.fiat-india.com/service/

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Interesting. Could you please post the link to the thread you are referring to.
I guess it also has to do with the brands with which Linea competes with. Hyundai, VW, Skoda, and Honda are not cheap to maintain.
Please check out nehamit's post # 99 in the following thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...arrived-7.html (My Fiat Linea MJD E+ Arrived!)

I have enclosed his comparison doc for your ready reference as well.

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Actually it is 15,000 km / 1 year service frequency
Thanks for pointing out the correct figure. I knew that Fiat's service cycle was longer than others.

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post

I don't believe their dismal sales has anything to do with their pricing. The T-Jet retails at around 1L rupees lesser than the Honda City V MT with leather, and 2 lac rupees lesser than City's V MT leather edition with sunroof and AVN. It can't get any more VFM that that, considering the extra tech specs and gizmos it comes with.

Ditto with the Punto 90HP. It is at least 30k cheaper than the i20 CRDi Asta (nearest diesel hatch in tech specs AND dimensions), without considering the discounts / freebies. With those subtracted, a Punto 90HP probably comes close to Swift ZDi territory in net pricing. Their dismal sales has more to do with their lack of advertising, and perceived weakness in service network strength/competence. Unless they aggressively take steps to rectify their bad reputation in both those areas, growth will continue to be slow in my opinion.
+100

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I definitely agree on the 1.6 MultiJet part though. Many buyers who test drive the Linea and then the Vento/Rapid end up buying the latter, citing the relatively underpowered engine as the main reason. the 1.6 MJD could drive some sales for the Linea, but that's still a long way off (2014 facelift).
An year away according to one source. There is another shocker coming from Fiat in form of Linea Classic this year where they propose to strip of most of the goodies, put the Punto Engine and price it around Rs 5 Lacs targetted at the fleet owners. Wonder if it will help them one bit or do some more damage to their brand image.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SparePartsComparison.pdf (40.0 KB, 828 views)
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Old 7th August 2013, 20:47   #126
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Contrapunto View Post
For a buyer of the Storme, I would advice - don't. At least wait for a few months and see. Reasons-
- Resale values will tank for market duds - not that Tata cars are known for stellar resale values. So unless you plan to hold your Storme for a generation, its not worth it.
- Parts availability will become a problem. I have already faced a lot of pain in replacing my key remote (how it happened is a Tata Motors story in itself for another day), cabin light - simple things like these the ubiquitous Indica ev2. Heaven forbid if you ever need to replace a door or body panel on a low selling model like the Storme .
Thanks, in any case deal went sour, so I guess no more Storme, unless something really exceptional comes up
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Old 7th August 2013, 21:13   #127
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

with all the focus on Fiat (how they are expected to go about but no idea why they haven't done that for years) ... Fiat in Cars seem to be in a similar situation with Philips in Consumer Durables. Both have been in India for donkey's years, have a love affair with the country, got everything wrong and lost out to Japanese and Koreans (of course Fiat has lost out to Americans as well). Internationally they have been consistently successful but seems to be half hearted on their India decisions. They cant think of quitting the country but also does not go the whole hog. They do make some starts but then fizzle out.

... and we have a nostalgic romance for these 2 as well

Would love to see Fiat getting up the charts not riding on absurd discounts but on their actual strengths ... most importantly design

Last edited by hoomdo : 7th August 2013 at 21:14. Reason: typo
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Old 7th August 2013, 21:24   #128
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Anyone surprised at the Ertiga petrol/ diesel numbers? Any profile of the petrol buyers?

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Old 7th August 2013, 21:59   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmo View Post

In case of Fiat, the other plus points apart from the cash discount are:

1) 3 Year 100,000 km Warranty, Additional 2 year extended Warranty available at reasonable cost.

2) 10,000 km Service cycle. Your car would need to need to go once a year for Service.

3) One of the lowest cost of spares in the industry. There is a separate thread on that so you could look it up if interested.

4) 185 cm Ground clearance with 16" alloys on top variants of Linea.

5) Rain sensing wipers, ACC etc.

If only they could price their Tjet / 90HP competitively and bring in 1.6L MJD on Linea...They could then knock off some nos from Verna / Vento / Rapid / City.
NMO i think we both are in mutual agreement so didnt get what u were trying to emphasise upon me
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Old 7th August 2013, 22:27   #130
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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NMO i think we both are in mutual agreement so didnt get what u were trying to emphasise upon me
namit, sure I agree and second your conclusion that fiat is on a growth trajectory. just added few points that I felt worked in fiat's favour for benefit of folks for whom Fiat has been off radar this year.

No disagreement, Bro. Thanks
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Old 8th August 2013, 00:10   #131
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Micra Petrol out numbering the K9 Diesel engined cars, Strange. wonder what is going on in the buyers mind.

happy to see Fiat pick up sales.

The facelift doesn't seem to have done much for Figo or rather ecosport going to be bread and butter for FORD??
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Old 8th August 2013, 01:16   #132
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Default Re: July 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by nmo View Post
Please check out nehamit's post # 99 in the following thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...arrived-7.html (My Fiat Linea MJD E+ Arrived!)

I have enclosed his comparison doc for your ready reference as well.
Thank you for posting the spare part price comparison list!

I bought the August 2013 Autocar India magazine just to learn about spare part pricing, which they had covered comprehensively for cars sold in India across all segments.

If one leaves out the premium segments (populated by the likes of the German luxury trio), luxury SUVs and niche CBU imports, a common trend was easily discernible across the mass market segments.

Maruti spares were, in general, the cheapest of the lot. Hyundai was second and not far behind Maruti Suzuki across segments. No surprises therefore, that these two manufacturers occupy the top two slots in the Indian car market.

The real surprise was Fiat. Punto and Linea spares were quite cheap and very close to the leaders. This was quite surprising, considering the fact that Fiat in India does not have the economies of scale compared to Maruti or Hyundai.

Tata spares were also reasonably priced, with the Nano unsurprisingly having the cheapest spare part price basket for any car sold in India. Companies like Nissan, Renault, Chevrolet and Ford followed on the list with pretty reasonable spare part prices for their cars. Škoda and Volkswagen parts were on the higher side.

Honda, with the notable exception of the Amaze, had comparatively high spare part costs. The real shocker was Toyota, whose spare part prices were consistently high across their entire range. The magazine noted that Toyota parts tend to last longer in general, and that would offset the high purchase price of such spares. I guess the same holds true for Honda as well.

However, both Toyota and Honda can lower their prices if they can leverage economies of scale and parts sharing to the maximum, which they do not do, for the moment at least.

Of course, Autocar made it clear that their extensive report was only about prices of parts, and not the total cost of maintenance, which includes other things. Still, the spare part price report was a real eye-opener and a must read for anyone who wishes to keep his/her car for a long time.

As far as Fiat is concerned, I believe they are on the right track indeed. They are doing things steadily, as they should. It's not easy to build up a new network from scratch in a short time. New dealers with an eagerness to prove themselves should be better for customers and the brand. It's certainly better than getting second-class treatment from Tata dealers, who are quite low on the customer satisfaction front.

Once they establish a sizable sales and service network, they should introduce new products quickly. The better performing dealers can also be rewarded with Jeep dealerships, which would give higher margins per unit sold.


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Originally Posted by Sweet Chariot View Post
Micra Petrol out numbering the K9 Diesel engined cars, Strange. wonder what is going on in the buyers mind.
It has to be the Micra Active effect! The petrol only Micra Active is a very attrACTIVE value for money proposition for car buyers from a segment lower. Having said that, the Micra sales, and the diesel in particular, certainly deserve to be more than what it is at present.

Last edited by RSR : 8th August 2013 at 01:34.
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Old 8th August 2013, 07:22   #133
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The real surprise was Fiat. Punto and Linea spares were quite cheap and very close to the leaders. This was quite surprising, considering the fact that Fiat in India does not have the economies of scale compared to Maruti or Hyundai.
Off-topic: Fiat reduced the cost of spares and also the labour charges as soon as the new company started in April. This fact was mentioned by Mr Mishra (head of After Sales division at the new Fiat India company) during a presentation at Fiat Caffe in Bangalore, 2 weeks back. He also mentioned that Punto will be cheapest to maintain in its category, due to its 15,000 KM service interval.
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Old 8th August 2013, 09:24   #134
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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I bought the August 2013 Autocar India magazine just to learn about spare part pricing, which they had covered comprehensively for cars sold in India across all segments.

If one leaves out the premium segments (populated by the likes of the German luxury trio), luxury SUVs and niche CBU imports, a common trend was easily discernible across the mass market segments.

Maruti spares were, in general, the cheapest of the lot.
Hyundai was second and not far behind Maruti Suzuki across segments.
No surprises therefore, that these two manufacturers occupy the top two slots in the Indian car market.

The real surprise was Fiat. Punto and Linea spares were quite cheap and very close to the leaders.
This was quite surprising, considering the fact that Fiat in India does not have the economies of scale compared to Maruti or Hyundai.

Tata spares were also reasonably priced, with the Nano unsurprisingly having the cheapest spare part price basket for any car sold in India.
Companies like Nissan, Renault, Chevrolet and Ford followed on the list with pretty reasonable spare part prices for their cars. Škoda and Volkswagen parts were on the higher side.

Honda, with the notable exception of the Amaze, had comparatively high spare part costs. The real shocker was Toyota, whose spare part prices were consistently high across their entire range. The magazine noted that Toyota parts tend to last longer in general, and that would offset the high purchase price of such spares. I guess the same holds true for Honda as well.

However, both Toyota and Honda can lower their prices if they can leverage economies of scale and parts sharing to the maximum, which they do not do, for the moment at least.
Spare parts cost doesn't convey anything regarding the actual maintenance cost of the vehicle if the durability or parts replacement interval is not studied. The only thing it does is it helps the manufacturer do an eye wash.

For eg:- in reality, Toyota, Mahindra, Ford costs much lesser than a Maruti or Hyundai to maintain.
Regarding the pricing , I would any day prefer a Toyota spare like the life time fuel filters, life time transmission fluids, etc. Which costs 25 % more than a Maruti, but lasts 500% more than a Maruti.
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Old 8th August 2013, 09:34   #135
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And we need to also consider 2 aspects here in addition to the sales plunge.
1. The waiting period for swift and Dzire has come down to almost nil.
2. Maruti had to stop one shift @ Manesar plant ( where Swift is manufactured ) and send the employees for unpaid vacation. This should be the first time since the release of swift that they had to resort to such drastic measures.
Accepted. You definitely have a good point there.

Suzuki officials must be banging their head for the rather minimal refresh they gave the car in 2011. Although the car still looks good and youthful, the age shows! Moreover, they missed a good opportunity to redesign the DZire to a proper sedan.
However, still do feel they will just about manage to keep sales going. If nothing else works, Maruti will play the VFM card- slashing prices have almost always worked for them.

The real game starts when the Hyundai diesels join the small car party!
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