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Old 9th January 2014, 10:55   #241
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Any further inputs on the launch? The City is already here and now is the time for Maruti to jump in and spoil the party for Honda! Throw in all the features, give it wider shoes, tune the suspension well, make it handle and steer well, don't cut corners with the quality and YL1 may just trump the City.
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Old 9th January 2014, 13:33   #242
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by rednikhil View Post
Any further inputs on the launch? The City is already here and now is the time for Maruti to jump in and spoil the party for Honda! Throw in all the features, give it wider shoes, tune the suspension well, make it handle and steer well, don't cut corners with the quality and YL1 may just trump the City.
I think Honda will have the upper edge on one design aspect in this case. Especially if we consider how similar their rears look! By the time YL1 reaches the market, there would 1000's of Citys smiling their 'rear' off literally!
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Old 9th January 2014, 14:31   #243
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by Gagzie View Post
I think Honda will have the upper edge on one design aspect in this case.
+1 to this, Honda is advertising aggressively about its 'powerful' and 'fuel efficient' diesel engine. That is something Maruti will not be able to beat easily.
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Old 9th January 2014, 15:07   #244
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Yes, Honda has more powerful & fuel efficient engine for sure. But YL1 will have "Maruti Suzuki" written on its boot, which is powerful than name Honda in India.

In India there are two types of people buying cars. "One are who buys Maruti and others are who buys car other than Maruti." Almost 50% market share for so many years just shows that. So i guess we should wait & see what MUL launch next month. Then only we will get the clear picture
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Old 9th January 2014, 15:36   #245
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Yes, Honda has more powerful & fuel efficient engine for sure. But YL1 will have "Maruti Suzuki" written on its boot, which is powerful than name Honda in India.

In India there are two types of people buying cars. "One are who buys Maruti and others are who buys car other than Maruti." Almost 50% market share for so many years just shows that. So i guess we should wait & see what MUL launch next month. Then only we will get the clear picture

That's an age old debate aniketi. I see it like that - probably 50% of masses buy Maruti but rest of them surely detest or unlike them not to buy . Let's not forget they had an early bird advantage over Honda by well over a decade.

Personally I would love to see MUL launch a good, well balanced car which looks fantastic, performs brilliant & is easy to maintain. God knows when was the last time MUL actually did all three!
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Old 9th January 2014, 15:52   #246
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by mpksuhas View Post
+1 to this, Honda is advertising aggressively about its 'powerful' and 'fuel efficient' diesel engine. That is something Maruti will not be able to beat easily.
True - YL1 is supposedly 1.3L 90 bhp engine with around 23 kmpl. Honda has the edge in both parameters.

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Yes, Honda has more powerful & fuel efficient engine for sure. But YL1 will have "Maruti Suzuki" written on its boot, which is powerful than name Honda in India...
The name is more powerful in the lower segments. This particular segment is where Honda has been a King for years and lost out only to the current Verna and that too after holding quite well for just a petrol motor.

I would be surprised if Honda does NOT take the crown back and keep it with them for a long long time to come.

Edit:: Frankly, I like the front styling of City more than YL1, especially with the twin slat chrome grill! Too early to tell which one will be my pick among interiors.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 9th January 2014 at 15:56.
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Old 9th January 2014, 16:05   #247
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

After the City launch, the design of the YL1 is already beginning to look outdated. Honda and Hyundai have realised that in this segment you need presence and even if a car is 10L it should look like more.

With 1.3L 90HP diesel and 1.4L 94HP petrol, the YL1 is already on the backfoot compared to Hyundai, Honda and VW.

Maruti has it's work cut out.
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Old 9th January 2014, 16:10   #248
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

I will keep my comments reserved till YL1 is not launched. I am sure, Maruti is smart enough to place it well in the market with good price. They will launch it below City & others for sure. Lets see how it goes
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Old 9th January 2014, 16:23   #249
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpksuhas View Post
+1 to this, Honda is advertising aggressively about its 'powerful' and 'fuel efficient' diesel engine. That is something Maruti will not be able to beat easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
True - YL1 is supposedly 1.3L 90 bhp engine with around 23 kmpl. Honda has the edge in both parameters.
I think we should not write off the Maruti Suzuki sedan so soon. They have found it quite difficult to sell vehicles in the > 1 million rupee segments (where margins are high) and they know it. So they would be working doubly hard towards dominating the sub-1 million rupee segments as much as they can.

Honda's 1.5 EarthDreams diesel is certainly more powerful and fuel efficient when compared to the 1.3 DDiS VGT. But Maruti Suzuki can counter that by playing up the refinement factor of Fiat's proven MultiJet. And they can, and certainly will, play the value-for-money card.

It's their K14 petrol which is going to find it difficult to take on Honda's fabulous 1.5 i-VTEC, which also has a well-mated CVT option. But again, they can sell decent numbers of the petrol if they play the vfm card.

The new City is a very good car and it's going to be a sales success, no doubt, but I think Honda will be in for a disappointment if they believe they are going to annihilate all competition in the segment with their latest sedan. The petrol may become the best seller in its class, but the diesel is in for a very tough fight indeed. The true picture will become clear once the launch hype and pent-up demand is over after, say, a period of 6 months.

Last edited by RSR : 9th January 2014 at 16:35.
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Old 9th January 2014, 16:57   #250
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
...I am sure, Maruti is smart enough to place it well in the market with good price. They will launch it below City & others for sure...
Do they have a choice now? That is the ONLY way they can create a ripple in the market. But frankly, even if the YL1 is 50 grands lesser than City, I still would prefer a City for the better brand name.

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I think we should not write off the Maruti Suzuki sedan so soon...
The effort they put (thru pictures) is miles ahead of what they have done and befitting a 10L car now. But they also should have gone for a higher level motor than sticking onto the 1.3L 90 bhp engine.

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
...But Maruti Suzuki can counter that by playing up the refinement factor of Fiat's proven MultiJet. And they can, and certainly will, play the value-for-money card...
I for one will stick to City unless the motor is audible in the cabin at 100 kmph speeds compared to YL1. As a customer, that matters a lot for me. If it's good inside, I would NOT bother how loud it is outside, because I usually drive with my windows rolled up. I would really be looking at this comparo once YL1 launches.

Edit:: Read the City official review once again! Looks like the NVH is quite average. This could be a deal breaker for me, if I am looking at this car.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 9th January 2014 at 17:24.
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Old 9th January 2014, 17:11   #251
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I think we should not write off the Maruti Suzuki sedan so soon. They have found it quite difficult to sell vehicles in the > 1 million rupee segments (where margins are high) and they know it. So they would be working doubly hard towards dominating the sub-1 million rupee segments as much as they can.
Exactly my thought. Before new Verna, Hyundai was also not successful within > 1 Million rupee segment. But they got huge success with All new Verna. Same example we can give for XUV 500. Mahindra was not a player in high end cars, still they got success with XUV 500. On same lines, Maruti can have winner in YL1. Don't underestimate it. Finally it comes down to the right product. Whenever customer get good product with right price, looks & other things, it gets success. Renault was unknown to India, still got away with success for Duster.

As many said, i am least bothered about the engine. Multijet engine in 90 BHP with VGT, is quite capable to handle this car. It is way better refined, smooth, has better NVH levels than Honda & VW diesel engines. Also 1.4 L K series petrol engine will also be a good performer for sure.

Again, i will not speak much till Maruti launches it. If it is launched at right price, i will buy one for myself for sure
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Old 9th January 2014, 17:53   #252
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Trying to get some perspective and not intending to start a war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Exactly my thought. Before new Verna, Hyundai was also not successful within > 1 Million rupee segment. But they got huge success with All new Verna. Same example we can give for XUV 500. Mahindra was not a player in high end cars, still they got success with XUV 500....
When these two cars were launched, those had the below traits

1. Striking design
2. Segment best engine rating
3. Class leading features
4. Terrific VFM (initial price)

Now the YL1, except for the 4th part, may NOT score on anything else. It's coming to a market where we already have Verna & City with great design, better engines and laundry list of features.

What does Maruti got to offer with respect to 2 & 3, 1 being subjective?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
...Renault was unknown to India, still got away with success for Duster...
Duster created a new segment + 'SUV looks + FE of a hatch' + magic ride which was almost unkown in India.This car was never VFM but still went on to become a block buster.

NOT that I want YL1 to be a disaster, but they could have done something to gain an upper hand. Am looking for that "something special" in the car. The ONLY thing I can hope for is a great ride & handling car suiting enthusiasts (still NO VFM options with this trait in the segment). In such a case, a remap should satisfy the hunger for power.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 9th January 2014 at 17:59.
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Old 9th January 2014, 18:02   #253
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Even VFM for YL1 will be very tricky because of the Dzire. If they aim for lower segment like Sunny, Etios then YL1 will hit the Dzire also.

That's why I said Maruti has their work cut out.
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Old 9th January 2014, 21:51   #254
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Ever since we heard news of 1.3 MJD and 1.4 K series making its way to the YL1, I had serious doubts on its ability to crack the Sedan segment for Maruti, unless Maruti relies heavily on the VFM tag. But even that seems a distant possibility.

The first alphabet in VFM stands for Value. What value would a car bring to a Segment where it does not have a clear USP.

It looks a lot like the new City from back. Verna is a looker, Vento and Rapid are not too bad either.

Neither the petrol nor the diesel engines are now anything special. All other diesel cars (City, Verna, Vento and Rapid) have more powerful engines. The city has better mileage too. The city petrol is as good as it gets.

Verna and City are loaded with features. Vento and Rapid are much more solid than what a Maruti can ever be.

Yes it will be reliable, infact more than the Vento and Rapid for sure, but The City and Verna are not too far behind. Having owned a Swift, I know modern Marutis are not as cheap to maintain as they are thought to be. Definitely not too far ahead of others.

Where then is the value vis-a-vis a City or Verna.

They may price it at the most 50k cheaper than Verna and City. But will that pull people away from these two cars in this segment. Frankly to me, it won't. If I am looking for a sedan in that class, I would rather spend 50K more and get a more rounded product.

Rethink on the engines and load it beyond the city maintaining the price advantage. To me, that seems the way forward for Maruti and YL1.

Last edited by vibbs : 9th January 2014 at 21:52.
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Old 10th January 2014, 08:31   #255
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Ever since we heard news of 1.3 MJD and 1.4 K series making its way to the YL1, I had serious doubts on its ability to crack the Sedan segment for Maruti, unless Maruti relies heavily on the VFM tag. But even that seems a distant possibility.
I know 'Economics' will be the answer but I fail to understand why Maruti is milling the 1.3 MJD so much! Every other in their stable has it. Would be very cheap for them as the turbo is changed it his in Ertiga and SX4 else in the Swift, Ritz, Dzire and note this YL1. AFAIK the same engine that is used in Ertiga will be plonked in here.

Maruti do something and launch another multi capacity diesel mill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
The first alphabet in VFM stands for Value. What value would a car bring to a Segment where it does not have a clear USP.
Lol, if only Maruti Suzuki understood VFM. Ur only understand Fuel Efficiency

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
It looks a lot like the new City from back. Verna is a looker, Vento and Rapid are not too bad either.
This is bad luck or coincidence that it resembles the city from rear end but it can be accepted. Not an issue as looks are subjective and here we need some skin deep changes than facial make up.

Looks wise I rate the Vento first, City then Verna and last the Rapid.

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Neither the petrol nor the diesel engines are now anything special. All other diesel cars (City, Verna, Vento and Rapid) have more powerful engines. The city has better mileage too. The city petrol is as good as it gets.
One engine all cars formula so nothing much van be done with Maruti until they give us an All new engine with decent characteristics. This part of manufacturing/R&D will be a tough part of they want an own engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
They may price it at the most 50k cheaper than Verna and City. But will that pull people away from these two cars in this segment. Frankly to me, it won't. If I am looking for a sedan in that class, I would rather spend 50K more and get a more rounded product.
Maruti will sell cars some it the other way in India. "India comes home in a Maruti" - talons for Maruti. Weird of both and the brand had created decent grip that anything will sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Rethink on the engines and load it beyond the city maintaining the price advantage. To me, that seems the way forward for Maruti and YL1.
I can think about a powerful engine but feature laden car and that too cheaper than the competition is impossible.

Anurag.
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