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Old 27th August 2014, 17:06   #751
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

ABS/Airbags are also standard across variants or its going to be restricted to the Z variants?

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
Factory fitted reverse sensors on all variants with camera on Z trims is one such feature.
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Old 27th August 2014, 17:13   #752
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Airbags AFAIK is restricted only on Z Trims. ABS is optional/standard across all variants similar to Ertiga
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Old 27th August 2014, 20:54   #753
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

^^ Yes, as per various news items so far, only Z trims will have airbags. VDi+ variant will cost around 10 Lakhs OTR. A million rupees, in an ideal world, should be enough to fetch ABS + Airbags. What makes it even more intriguing is that even Maruti Alto 800 LXi with Ex-Showroom (at Delhi) cost of around 3.1 Lakhs comes with an airbag for the driver.
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Old 27th August 2014, 22:26   #754
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
? Not much I guess. So they (Maruti) better be careful if they want to charge a premium against an established product in the segment. I kinda feel Honda will still have an upper edge on FE numbers (along with those power figures).
.
'IF' they charge a premium That will never happen, can never happen, and lastly the Ciaz doesn't deserve a premium over the city. That's the whole point here. It will be dumb on Maruti's part if they price it even matching the city. If so, the product will be written off even before sales will start.

History says Maruti never went wrong on pricing. When the SX4 was launched, it undercut the then existing Honda city by more than a lakh, and offered equipment that the City could only dream of. Since the current City is quite loaded, equipment difference will be less. But when it comes to pricing, I can bet on them.

Autocar were overconfident that 1.6L option will be provided. The 1.6L petrol engine itself was not used on the Ciaz though its already used before. Once the S cross comes to the market, then the engines will be shared.

By the way, .anshuman's little birdie was the first to break this news, and with the most accurate information. We should greatly credit that. All the other websites either copied this information, or bloated the news with speculations. The engines were stated right in the beginning of this thread. Not even a small hint of the 1.6L engine was given, though the same source confirmed that the S-Cross will use the 1.6L engine. Cheers to that
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Old 27th August 2014, 23:27   #755
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
'IF' they charge a premium Cheers to that
One of the biggest reasons why the SX4 didn't set the sales chart on fire was the Fuel Efficiency figures. In fact before the VVT Engine was launched there were reports of even more dismal FE figures which the VVT Launch tried to mitigate. It was loaded with features as you rightly said which the City at that time wasn't.

This time around the strategy of each manufacturer seems to be capitalizing on the "Kitna deti hai" mindset. Even the City print and outdoor campaigns had the FE figures as the highlights over a lot of other features.

Maruti needs to launch a "premium" product and undercut the pricing substantially. If they don't get it right in the first attempt i.e. the launch, no number of facelifts, limited editions would be enough to have a fair battle against the City
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Old 28th August 2014, 02:42   #756
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
'IF' they charge a premium That will never happen, can never happen, and lastly the Ciaz doesn't deserve a premium over the city. That's the whole point here. It will be dumb on Maruti's part if they price it even matching the city. If so, the product will be written off even before sales will start.

History says Maruti never went wrong on pricing. When the SX4 was launched, it undercut the then existing Honda city by more than a lakh, and offered equipment that the City could only dream of. Since the current City is quite loaded, equipment difference will be less. But when it comes to pricing, I can bet on them.

Autocar were overconfident that 1.6L option will be provided. The 1.6L petrol engine itself was not used on the Ciaz though its already used before. Once the S cross comes to the market, then the engines will be shared.

By the way, .anshuman's little birdie was the first to break this news, and with the most accurate information. We should greatly credit that. All the other websites either copied this information, or bloated the news with speculations. The engines were stated right in the beginning of this thread. Not even a small hint of the 1.6L engine was given, though the same source confirmed that the S-Cross will use the 1.6L engine. Cheers to that
Dezire and Amaze even if priced equally would result in Dezire rocking the sales. The same applies for Brio & Celerio. So can't really see your logic. The product should be good, comparative and from same segment. Then MUL has the brand value in India to pull perspective buyers. Ppl are educated enough to know that a Ciaz is different then a 800.
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Old 28th August 2014, 06:54   #757
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Dezire and Amaze even if priced equally would result in Dezire rocking the sales. The same applies for Brio & Celerio. So can't really see your logic. The product should be good, comparative and from same segment. Then MUL has the brand value in India to pull perspective buyers. Ppl are educated enough to know that a Ciaz is different then a 800.
That's because apart from a bigger engine, the amaze has nothing attractive. Not the same case here
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Old 28th August 2014, 08:23   #758
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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That's because apart from a bigger engine, the amaze has nothing attractive. Not the same case here
Well apart from the engine (which is more silent albeit) the Ciaz is more then a match for City on every front.

It will in all likelihood handle better, have more leg room, better features and plastics, projector headlamps, 16" alloys, bigger tires (more width), etc. etc.

So I would say Ciaz doesn't have a big job to upstage City. City has the Honda badge which has aspirational value for those graduating from 5-7 lakhs to 10 lakhs bracket. But that fades away after a while. So all I am saying is let the better product win.
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Old 28th August 2014, 09:18   #759
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Again lot of talks over engine here. I have driven DDiS & it is one of the best when driven above 1800-2000 RPM. Its turbo kick is addictive & some times scary too. Its a lot of fun to drive, specially on highways. That's a big plus point for Ciaz. Also it has one of the best AC unit. Though it doesn't claim, its one of the most fuel efficient engines in real world, both in city and highways. DDiS also scores high on NVH count. It sounds much better then so called high tech cars like Vento, Rapid, Fiesta etc. I am sure NVH of this car will be best from Maruti till now due to segment in which it is coming.

I am sure, if price aggressively, it will sell like hot cakes. Will it overtake City, we need to wait & watch. Only time will tell. Verna? Hyundai better be careful. Others like Sunny, Scala, Fiesta, Rapid, Vento etc, its time to change your cars guys. Else you need to shut your shop soon
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Old 28th August 2014, 09:50   #760
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
How much more leg space than Honda? Not much I guess. So they (Maruti) better be careful if they want to charge a premium against an established product in the segment. I kinda feel Honda will still have an upper edge on FE numbers (along with those power figures).
FE is one area that I'm also not too confident about Ciaz in the battle with City. For the petrol option, my colleague is getting 13-14 in his iVTEC while my friend's 1.2L K-series is giving 11-12 in the same conditions. I donít think a bigger 1.4L K-series would give a better FE than the smaller sibling. On the diesel front, another colleague's Amaze is giving slightly better FE than Swift diesel. So it is unlikely that Ciaz can beat City on this front. Max they can do would be to hang around in the same vicinity albeit having lesser power.

Most folks shorter than say 5'10" wouldn't have an issue with City's rear leg room and in case of Ciaz, that might go up slightly. I donít think Ciaz would be comfortable for a 6'2" guy even if it claims a bigger leg room than City. So the demographic who would benefit from this additional legroom is not going to be so huge.

ABS and driver airbags are standard features in all variants of City. So there is no way Ciaz can be justified at a price on par with City, let alone premium.

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
It will in all likelihood handle better, have more leg room, better features and plastics, projector headlamps, 16" alloys, bigger tires (more width), etc. etc.

So I would say Ciaz doesn't have a big job to upstage City. City has the Honda badge which has aspirational value for those graduating from 5-7 lakhs to 10 lakhs bracket. But that fades away after a while. So all I am saying is let the better product win.
Sunroof is as useful as projector headlamps. Please note that we are getting halogen projectors for low beam, not bi-xenons. So the presence of projector headlamps alone doesn't make Ciaz a better equipped car when City has sunroof which is not available in Ciaz. I donít think we can call Ciaz as better equipped than City just because of the presence of projector headlamps and some other dimensions being bigger like rim size, tyre size, legroom etc. We can probably call it bigger car with a smaller heart but that's about it.

City has never faced the problem of rattles while it is inherent in Maruti vehicles. Unless Maruti is purposefully introducing rattles into Swift and Dzire even after knowing how to avoid the same, it is unlikely that the Ciaz would be free from rattles. That wouldn't help the premium car image that Maruti is aiming at.

City has the same aspirational value in its class as Maruti has in the segments below or Toyota has in MPV. It has been the same way for the last 15 years and I'm not sure why it would fade away soon.
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:01   #761
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
...Most folks shorter than say 5'10" wouldn't have an issue with City's rear leg room and in case of Ciaz, that might go up slightly....
I myself am 6'2" and have been in my friend's new City. The space is definitely good but I am doubtful how much "more" can Ciaz offer comparatively. Also the plastics in City is pretty decent, so is NVH levels. I found the ride quality also pliant while sitting in the middle was troublesome for me due to the transmission tunnel.

All in all, City iDtec definitely has everything positive (for the segment) and the touchscreen panels only add to the premium feel. I know for sure that Ciaz will have a tough fight to get to that spot inspite of the strong brand pull in the below segments.

I am surprised that few members still hang on to the "better space", "better features", "better plastics" argument in favor of Ciaz which can NOT be even quantified as of now! Kind of makes the argument pointless IMO.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 28th August 2014 at 10:09.
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:12   #762
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

I think the one big reason Ciaz should sell would be, because of its almost similar feature-set as the segment leaders PLUS its Maruti tag of good customer service. The only reason I thought SX4 might not have sold compared to others, may be because of its looks (again that is subjective). It was not bad I would say, but then people had choice and a reason to dismiss it. But if that equation goes away with Ciaz, people now wont just ask "Why Should I buy a Ciaz" but also "Why Should'nt I buy"!

I had maintained this viewpoint that a 1.6 DDIS would have been good. But on the other side, if Maruti is able to bring a near similar Linea like product (meaning good driving dynamics, good steering feedback, solid build) with their service line backing, then it has all the elements of a good success story. Lets wait and watch!
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:22   #763
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
FE is one area that I'm also not too confident about Ciaz in the battle with City. For the petrol option, my colleague is getting 13-14 in his iVTEC while my friend's 1.2L K-series is giving 11-12 in the same conditions. I don’t think a bigger 1.4L K-series would give a better FE than the smaller sibling. On the diesel front, another colleague's Amaze is giving slightly better FE than Swift diesel. So it is unlikely that Ciaz can beat City on this front. Max they can do would be to hang around in the same vicinity albeit having lesser power.
It all depends upon how you drive the car mate. I for example, get anywhere between 10-11 in city conditions and this is with the metro construction work going on currently in hyderabad and 13-15 on the highway as long as I cruise under 140kph in my Kizashi (both figures are with ac always on). These are inarguably excellent mileage figures from a 1.5+ tonne car with a naturally aspirated 2.4 liter petrol block with variable valve timing being its only relatively modern tech. The K-series is very capable of giving good mileage figures and I'm pretty sure it will be able to post same figures as the v-tec. As for the 1.3 multijet, Honda might claim higher mileage figures from its idtec unit, but in the real world, the multijet remains the more frugal option. This is verified by many and you will understand why once you look at the power and torque curves of these two motors. If your friend isn't getting more from his car than the Honda, he is doing something very wrong, or he doesn't really care as much about mileage

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Most folks shorter than say 5'10" wouldn't have an issue with City's rear leg room and in case of Ciaz, that might go up slightly. I don’t think Ciaz would be comfortable for a 6'2" guy even if it claims a bigger leg room than City. So the demographic who would benefit from this additional legroom is not going to be so huge.
Why then do people buy cars like the Superb? Leg room is something no one can get enough of; if you can easily fit in the backseat, then it's time to try stretching your legs

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
ABS and driver airbags are standard features in all variants of City. So there is no way Ciaz can be justified at a price on par with City, let alone premium.
Maruti is still playing a cheap game by not offering standard safety options. Let's hope the upcoming laws that make them mandatory, will tackle this issue of companies refusing to offer safety features in lower variants

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Sunroof is as useful as projector headlamps. Please note that we are getting halogen projectors for low beam, not bi-xenons. So the presence of projector headlamps alone doesn't make Ciaz a better equipped car when City has sunroof which is not available in Ciaz. I don’t think we can call Ciaz as better equipped than City just because of the presence of projector headlamps and some other dimensions being bigger like rim size, tyre size, legroom etc. We can probably call it bigger car with a smaller heart but that's about it.
No way! Sunroof in India, is a nice to have feature, but certainly not necessary. Projector lamps on the other hand, offer better functionality in the way of more even light spread and less glare to oncoming traffic and cannot simply be dismissed like that. Same goes for the electrochromic day/night mirror which makes it extremely easy on your eyes at night without hampering visibility sometimes like the regular ones do, and the bigger wheels which offer better grip, handling and while not functional, do their bit at improving the car's stance and looks. These are all more important features in my opinion, than a sunroof and an eco light in your instrument cluster.
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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
City has never faced the problem of rattles while it is inherent in Maruti vehicles. Unless Maruti is purposefully introducing rattles into Swift and Dzire even after knowing how to avoid the same, it is unlikely that the Ciaz would be free from rattles. That wouldn't help the premium car image that Maruti is aiming at.
They do have the capability to make rattle free cars just as I have seen from my Kizashi which makes absolutely no sound with the windows up, ac off and music off after doing 30k kms. Even my friend's Laura which has done only 13k kms, makes slight squeaks under careful observation. The Grand Vitara is another excellent example; watching Samurai's dash cam videos where he belts down bad village roads, is quite something. Not sure about the SX4, but of the two I have driven, both owned by friends, neither rattled. So I'm sure they will do their bit. Also I don't really think it is that difficult to make a rattle free car today. We can only wait and see.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 28th August 2014 at 10:25.
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:27   #764
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Originally Posted by ampere View Post
But if that equation goes away with Ciaz, people now wont just ask "Why Should I buy a Ciaz" but also "Why Should'nt I buy"!
+ 1.

When the SX4 came out against the Gen2 city, it was ahead in terms of features, styling, value etc. And the sales figures reflected that! However, the Gen3 City that came out within a few months made the comparison look like chalk and cheese.

Judging from the pics atleast, Maruti has reduced that gap now with the new Ciaz. A lot of people will ask 'Why shouldn't I buy the Ciaz?'.
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:46   #765
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Even i own a swift DDiS first gen car and can make it out what you are talking about specially the 2000 + RPM.
No offence but have you really tried Rapid, Vento or Fiesta specially their 3rd gear pull? Suzuki cars cant match the performance of those cars and trust me just give a try once, you'll feel that DDiS is nothing but just one tractor engine(I call it my car a Tractor). I have done a mistake once and not going to repeat the same even by thinking of Maruti cars.
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Again lot of talks over engine here. I have driven DDiS & it is one of the best when driven above 1800-2000 RPM. Its turbo kick is addictive & some times scary too. Its a lot of fun to drive, specially on highways. That's a big plus point for Ciaz. Also it has one of the best AC unit. Though it doesn't claim, its one of the most fuel efficient engines in real world, both in city and highways. DDiS also scores high on NVH count. It sounds much better then so called high tech cars like Vento, Rapid, Fiesta etc. I am sure NVH of this car will be best from Maruti till now due to segment in which it is coming.

I am sure, if price aggressively, it will sell like hot cakes. Will it overtake City, we need to wait & watch. Only time will tell. Verna? Hyundai better be careful. Others like Sunny, Scala, Fiesta, Rapid, Vento etc, its time to change your cars guys. Else you need to shut your shop soon
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