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Old 5th September 2014, 11:46   #1111
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Autocar India first drive -



Overdrive first drive -



Funny thing from the Autocar review, it might be the camera angle - but the Ciaz is making the lady look miniature in comparison -

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Old 5th September 2014, 11:58   #1112
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Default Re: Similarities

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
I think its your sleepy eyes, please let them have bit of rest

My eyes are not able to find any similarities between these two cars. And if one is hell bent in finding similarities then all the sedans look similar from side profile where all of them have bonnet+cabin+boot configuration.

By the way, I see jeep as your avatar picture so I believe you are a Jeeper and you can identify different Jeep models even by seeing smallest of difference in two different jeeps. Please leave the cars for us car freaks.

And before you plan running over me and my car in your Jeep becasue of my words, I am running away from here
Hahahahahha. A Good one!
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Old 5th September 2014, 12:03   #1113
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:

Autocar India first drive -
I just chuckled so hard at one of her statements:

'Ciaz Alloys has more spokes than Ashoka Chakra' !!

This really looks like some cheap wheel cap. If this was Maruti's attempt at copying T-jet's Jet Propeller alloys, FAILED !!

Man why are Maruti so bad at desiging a 'Good Looking' car ?
I may get flamed for this, but I honestly think even the Good Old Rapid looks more proportionate & modern compared to this 'Yet to Be Launched' Maruti.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 5th September 2014 at 12:05.
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Old 5th September 2014, 12:13   #1114
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Default Is it worth waiting for the Ciaz/City?

Mod note: Removing [Font] tags, please avoid copy paste from external font editors. Also do a Preview before Submitting. Thanks.

Background: Need recommendations on a safe, fuss-free, manual petrol sedan within Rs 9.5-10L on road, Mumbai, and a dealer to buy it from. Fuel economy is not really a concern but safety, built quality and ownership experience is. I need this car to be a reliable family ride and child car-seat friendly. So cubic-capacity or pure output is not a concern, power delivery and drivability is.

Already drive an OHC, so inclined to pick up the City. But the shift from Noida to Tapukara ensures a Jan '15 delivery date. Plus, in Honda's drive to aggressively localize, the all new City seems to have lost a fair bit in translation – opinion.

The Ciaz is replacing a capable machine, looks clean and as such, I am not fussed over being a Maruti driver. But there's no way am rushing in for an early booking. And then, I’ll be waiting up to Nov-Dec, if not as much as the City.

Want to stay away from the VW group, though I really liked the Rapid. T-Jet Dynamic fits the bill and brings a smile on my face. But to be honest, it suffers from not so bumper-to-bumper friendly power delivery. Friend recommended the Etios VSP. Test-drove and wondered why it felt less than complete. No answers, really.

Questions:
Should I wait for the City/Ciaz? And which one of them? When is the Ciaz official review due here?
Am I missing out on something by eliminating VWs, Nissan or anything else that haven’t mentioned here?
Also, there’s a lot of talk about aluminum engines and high-tensile frames/sheets. Is it to old-school to expect what may appear to be solidly built?
Finally, is it within my rights to insist on a pre-registration inspection of the car I am buying?
Thanks for making time to read this!

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th September 2014 at 20:10.
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Old 5th September 2014, 12:49   #1115
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Trade analysts who are tracking the Maruti-Suzuki Ciaz are not too excited about the car's prospects, reports ET.

Quote:
Analysts ET spoke to predict the new car to do 1,500-2,000 units a month initially, as unsettling the grip of Honda Motors in the mid-size car space is going to be tough and also because of the increasing popularity of Sports Utility Vehicles that are eating into sedan sales.

They say, to make a meaningful contribution to Maruti's sales and profit margin, the car's volume should cross 2,000 units a month and, if that happens, they are ready to give a relook at estimates. ""The success of a model in the sedan segment means it should sell more than 2,000 units per month," said an analyst with a multinational brokerage house who didn't want to be named.

Basudep Banerjee, auto analyst at Antique Stock Broking, said Ciaz sales will most likely be driven by capturing volume from rival models like the Linea, Verna and Vento, as it is very difficult to expand the market size.

"The features offered at very competitive pricing could attract a lot of new customers, but we would be looking at revising our volume estimate only if it attains critical size," he said.

The Honda City has over half the share of the mid-size segment, selling 7,000-8,000 units a month. Analysts say it would be difficult for Ciaz to make a dent on City's volume entirely on the basis of lower pricing, because sedan customers often don't base their buying decision on price alone.

Aspiration aspect also plays a major role. The onslaught of SUVs and multipurpose vehicles is a threat for sedans. Maruti's own Ertiga, Mahindra's XUV 500 and Ford Motor's Ecosport have eaten away the market of the sedan segment.

Sedan sales have been falling since February 2013.

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SOURCE - Economic Times

Last edited by RavenAvi : 5th September 2014 at 12:54.
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Old 5th September 2014, 13:25   #1116
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Funny thing from the Autocar review, it might be their O camera angle - but the Ciaz is making the lady look miniature in comparison

Attachment 1283094
Where is her shadow???

Last edited by reppy : 5th September 2014 at 13:26.
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Old 5th September 2014, 13:30   #1117
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Honda better control their waiting periods else most of the bookings will move to Ciaz. Nice interiors and tons of features are definitely going to help the Ciaz.
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Old 5th September 2014, 13:55   #1118
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
Where is her shadow???
It isn't sunny! It looks cloudy. If you see the review video, you would see that it had been raining now and then during the test drive. That explains the lack of shadow!
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Old 5th September 2014, 17:58   #1119
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
Well, as far as I know there is information available on its pricing. Maruti could not have priced it any closer to City. Its exactly the same bracket, 7 to 11 lacs ex-showroom.

As I mentioned earlier, MASS network is extensive, but expensive and on the other Honda's is slightly less extensive, but much more reliable. Having said that, urban dwellers don't need to worry about finding a service station, they will be better off with Honda's more assuring after sales service network. Makes Honda's proposition sweeter!
I have a City ZX and A Swift and I am not convinced by Honda's after sales service. It take ages to get a response from Honda whereas Maruti is just minutes away. I got a call from Honda on recall due to power window switch issue. Its almost impossible to get in touch with Honda service center to get it rectified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalstatistiks View Post
Spot on. Like I was discussing with someone the other day, for Maruti's after sales, folks generally praise the extensive network and availability of spares. But that does mean the vehicle is as reliable as, say, a Toyota or even Honda (personal experience). Just means it is easily serviceable. Huge difference.
What, as per per your experience, are the issues with Maruti's reliability?
Not only serviceable, it is easily repairable in case of minor accident. I met wit an accident 7 years ago around 200 kms from Delhi. The person at MASS checked my car and assured me that the car can be safely driven to Delhi as it has no mechanical issues. Would I have similar comfort in case of any other manufacturer? I am not so sure.
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Old 5th September 2014, 18:25   #1120
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

In the whole scheme of things, the big question remains: Will a person looking at Honda City to buy, look at Ciaz? The question of brand would come up. Yes its a very impressive package which will attract buyers. But how many of the Honda guys would shift? I doubt?

I fail to see a good USP for the car. Again saying its a compelling packaging, but it still needs that "something" more to move out the segment benchmark. (I predict about a stable 3K odd cars sale per month and not many more). That in itself should be good for Maruti.

The other big question: Can they build their up-market brand value with Ciaz? A positive step no doubt, but I am not too hopeful. I would wait for the S-Cross to see how it gets that question answered.

Last edited by ampere : 5th September 2014 at 18:42.
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Old 5th September 2014, 18:31   #1121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post

I fail to see a good USP for the car. Again saying its a compelling packaging, but it still needs that "something" more to move out the segment benchmark.

The other big question: Can they build their up-market brand value with Ciaz?
They have already reached the ceiling for the Ciaz and now if there is still anything missing IMO, Maruti will raise their hands off.

What I feel is the car is now on par with the segment demands but nothing it off the world for people to jump into the showroom for this car.

May be a new set of heart and transmission may give this car a kick!

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 19:30   #1122
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

In my opinion,

1. Will Honda City buyers shift to the Ciaz? NO. If yes, maybe 10-20% of them if the pricing is attractive. This will include myself. If the pricing is same as the city, I will instantly get a City VXD. Rest of the buyers want a Honda. Even if MSIL offer a Kizashi at this price, people may buy the City again trying to find negatives in the Kizashi, or just because its not a honda.

2. SX4 didnt sell? The car was in the market from 2007-2014 for those who arent aware. From 2007-2010, the car used to regularly sell more than 2k units per month. In its first year, the car had a six month wait initially, for which MSIL also agreed to offer interest over the booking amount. This was only with a petrol engine. The lethargy of MSIL by not upgrading the car, and not introducing the diesel variant killed the car, since the new Verna and Honda City were launched. The further launch of the Ertiga sealed the lid on the sales of the SX4. Maruti customers got two extra seats for the same money.

3. No one here ever bothered about MSIL's huge rural market There are Netas and Babus(not the Audi, BMW types) walking into dealers in tier II and Tier III cities looking for a 'Maruti'. Anyone who sits in that back seat will book the Ciaz immediately after seeing the relatively cramped ertiga. Plus the mention of 26kmpl will cut the deal immediately. I have seen cars booked even without the knowledge of variants. Some don't even know how to drive.

4. The Baleno, SX4 were leaps in positioning. It was a direct jump for Maruti from small cars to sedans. Moreover, the diesel options weren't as stressed that time. Time has changed now. Swift, Dzire and the Ertiga are well accepted and the Ciaz will be a smaller step up compared to before, both in terms of image as well as price. This time, they got additional features too, enough to woo buyers. Hence, I can safely bet on 2k-2.5k units per month being sold if not more.

Hence, the last thing that is to be revealed is pricing. If I can get a Ciaz Zdi+ for a lakh lesser than the City VXD, I dont see a reason to not buy the Ciaz. Till date, they have never gone wrong with the pricing, so I hope that is attractive.

For those who complain about non reliable Suzukis or high service costs, there is a thread itself created which will give some insight into this issue.
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Old 5th September 2014, 19:43   #1123
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Default Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1, the SX4 replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
In the whole scheme of things, the big question remains: Will a person looking at Honda City to buy, look at Ciaz? The question of brand would come up. Yes its a very impressive package which will attract buyers. But how many of the Honda guys would shift? I doubt?

I fail to see a good USP for the car. Again saying its a compelling packaging, but it still needs that "something" more to move out the segment benchmark. (I predict about a stable 3K odd cars sale per month and not many more). That in itself should be good for Maruti.

The other big question: Can they build their up-market brand value with Ciaz? A positive step no doubt, but I am not too hopeful. I would wait for the S-Cross to see how it gets that question answered.

Would have agreed with you 100% IF the Ciaz where to go up against the 3rd generation City.

With the current generation- the petrol wins over Ciaz convincingly, thanks to the big difference in the two mills.

Coming to the diesel-

1. Previously, there were no reasons for a person coming to the Honda showroom to be disappointed. The ride/ handling package might not have been brilliant to us BHP'ians but it was more than enough for the common man. However the new City has a few very perceptible issues- 1. The refinement of that diesel. 2. Quality of those interiors.

2. Previously a Honda owner would only have told good things about Honda cars to tell his thought circle. Now they have things to complain too- the Honda City threads are getting filled with issues like water seepage, grinding sounds for petrol version, low diesel torque resulting in poor mileage with load etc. Outside of the BHP'ian community- word of mouth matters as well.

3. So what is the USP of the city diesel? It was packaging, features and mileage. Engine is only about enough for the segment and refinement is known issue. And it looks like Ciaz has it covered.

4. Brand is a USP, agreed. But Maruti Suzuki has unparalleled penetration in the smaller cities and towns. For many, the possibility of a neighbourhood garage versus driving 50kms for service will sound tempting, over the Honda badge.

5. I expect Suzuki to undercut the Honda on pricing substantially as well.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 5th September 2014 at 19:50.
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Old 5th September 2014, 19:47   #1124
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@audioholic
Completely agree on point 1. I will choose city over ciaz, even if the latter suits me better. I'm even saying this after buying the once "flagship" of maruti-the kizashi.
I still don't know why I'll choose the city over ciaz but I will. Stupid me!

Last edited by TB16 : 5th September 2014 at 19:49.
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Old 5th September 2014, 19:56   #1125
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I say yes @ampere .. A person looking at honda would be booking Ciaz. I have my uncle who looked at honda city and almost made the payment before he came across Ciaz and guess what he has booked Ciaz. The ratio would however be quiet low.

I have heard that 1300 cars booked till yesterday for Ciaz as confirmed by a dealer when we booked the Ciaz.

I asked my uncle the same question would you not feeling saying I own a honda city better than saying I own a Maruti. His reply was "I would say I own a Suzuki Ciaz rather than stress Maruti and it still feels premium".

Last edited by Kratos453 : 5th September 2014 at 20:00.
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