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Old 5th September 2014, 19:59   #1126
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Maruti has a huge advantage over Honda. Number of sales points. Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities are Maruti Forte. If this car is half as good as we all expect it to be, Maruti will see decent numbers. It may still not dethrone Honda City.

But as Crazy driver said, people now have a reason to be disappointed after visiting a Honda Showroom. The current Honda City does not give a 'Honda' feel inside despite all the bling. Maruti suddenly may not be at a disadvantage when it comes to interior feel. Add to that Ciaz is bigger and equally loaded.

Yes the Engine (specially petrol) will dampen quite a few spirits and that is why I believe Maruti missed a trick by offering a higher powered 1.6 Petrol as an option. That way, the 'Kitna deti hain' Junta would have had their way with the K14 and Maruti would have had a variant or two to showcase the performance.

That said, I predict 2-3K units per month. City may take a small hit, but major chunk will be from Vento/Rapid/Verna and even Ertiga.
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:11   #1127
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
4. Brand is a USP, agreed. But Maruti Suzuki has unparalleled penetration in the smaller cities and towns. For many, the possibility of a neighbourhood garage versus driving 50kms for service will sound tempting, over the Honda badge.
Agreed to what you say. And thats why I still hold that they would sell numbers. But the kind of buyers who may goto show room are not like you and me. The will see the Honda badge and go with it.
(While we know, Ciaz is equally compelling.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Maruti has a huge advantage over Honda. Number of sales points. Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities are Maruti Forte. If this car is half as good as we all expect it to be, Maruti will see decent numbers. It may still not dethrone Honda City.

But as Crazy driver said, people now have a reason to be disappointed after visiting a Honda Showroom. The current Honda City does not give a 'Honda' feel inside despite all the bling. Maruti suddenly may not be at a disadvantage when it comes to interior feel. Add to that Ciaz is bigger and equally loaded.
Thats why as I said earlier, they will still get good numbers. Because there are many many buyers outside the realm of Honda too.

And you know what, I now think, even many prospective Ertiga buyers may also convert to Ciaz (This time because of Value proposition and Maruti brand name!)
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:18   #1128
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

The overdrive review is so much more detailed versus the silly autocar review.

So it answered one of my questions regarding maps - the car uses Nokia's Here maps. Anyone using them - please comment how good they are?

Also, no mention about sound quality in any review - probably not exceptional then.

Everyone has mixed reviews of the diesel engine but I think the Overdrive review sums it up well - lag is there so there will be gear changes involved in city driving, with decent power (midrange) for the highways, but overall the engine is small for this segment.

Anyways...grey ZDI+ booked

Last edited by reppy : 5th September 2014 at 20:20.
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:33   #1129
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
In my opinion,

1. Will Honda City buyers shift to the Ciaz? NO. If yes, maybe 10-20% of them if the pricing is attractive. This will include myself. If the pricing is same as the city, I will instantly get a City VXD. Rest of the buyers want a Honda. Even if MSIL offer a Kizashi at this price, people may buy the City again trying to find negatives in the Kizashi, or just because its not a honda.

2. SX4 didnt sell? The car was in the market from 2007-2014 for those who arent aware. From 2007-2010, the car used to regularly sell more than 2k units per month. In its first year, the car had a six month wait initially, for which MSIL also agreed to offer interest over the booking amount. This was only with a petrol engine. The lethargy of MSIL by not upgrading the car, and not introducing the diesel variant killed the car, since the new Verna and Honda City were launched. The further launch of the Ertiga sealed the lid on the sales of the SX4. Maruti customers got two extra seats for the same money.


..........................
Hence, the last thing that is to be revealed is pricing. If I can get a Ciaz Zdi+ for a lakh lesser than the City VXD, I dont see a reason to not buy the Ciaz. Till date, they have never gone wrong with the pricing, so I hope that is attractive.

....................
@audioholic
I agree with all the points you made.
I guess Z variants of Ciaz may be priced 50K higher than Ertiga Z variants. May be this will be close to your expectation of Zdi+ being cheaper than VXD by a lakh.
Regarding your other point, that Ertiga affecting SX4 sales is also really true. As SX4 diesel was not very populer, maintenance was costly and Ertiga was priced lower than SX4, many who wanted a diesel car with Maruti reliability went for Ertiga(even if they required additional seats only very occasionally).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Would have agreed with you 100% IF the Ciaz where to go up against the 3rd generation City.
.....
1. Previously, there were no reasons for a person coming to the Honda showroom to be disappointed. The ride/ handling package might not have been brilliant to us BHP'ians but it was more than enough for the common man. However the new City has a few very perceptible issues- 1. The refinement of that diesel. 2. Quality of those interiors.
........
4. Brand is a USP, agreed. But Maruti Suzuki has unparalleled penetration in the smaller cities and towns. For many, the possibility of a neighbourhood garage versus driving 50kms for service will sound tempting, over the Honda badge.
.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos453 View Post
I say yes @ampere .. A person looking at honda would be booking Ciaz. I have my uncle who looked at honda city and almost made the payment before he came across Ciaz and guess what he has booked Ciaz. The ratio would however be quiet low.

I have heard that 1300 cars booked till yesterday for Ciaz as confirmed by a dealer when we booked the Ciaz.

I asked my uncle the same question would you not feeling saying I own a honda city better than saying I own a Maruti. His reply was "I would say I own a Suzuki Ciaz rather than stress Maruti and it still feels premium".
Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Maruti has a huge advantage over Honda. Number of sales points. Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities are Maruti Forte. If this car is half as good as we all expect it to be, Maruti will see decent numbers. It may still not dethrone Honda City.

But as Crazy driver said, people now have a reason to be disappointed after visiting a Honda Showroom. The current Honda City does not give a 'Honda' feel inside despite all the bling. Maruti suddenly may not be at a disadvantage when it comes to interior feel. Add to that Ciaz is bigger and equally loaded.
.......
Honda is watering down their soup.
We are hearing complaints of rattles from Brio, Amaze owners and also sometimes from City owners. Legendary engine refinement of Honda has taken a hit with iDtec diesel engine.
All these, would hurt Honda gradually but surely.
In the current market, where buyer who has become more informed than ever before will definitely look at value he is getting over the brand name. Only Honda die hard followers may go for Honda even if they are getting better products at a competitive price with better peace of mind due to better dealer service network.

Regards,
JLS
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:38   #1130
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
So it answered one of my questions regarding maps - the car uses Nokia's Here maps. Anyone using them - please comment how good they are?

:
Quite detailed in my Lumia phone. If regular updates are provided, its really a good option.
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:44   #1131
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
So it answered one of my questions regarding maps - the car uses Nokia's Here maps. Anyone using them - please comment how good they are?
I have been using these maps for last few years on Garmin (Garmin uses Navteq maps, Nokia now owns Navteq and this is the source for all Here maps).

Overall, these maps are pretty good. You can check these on http://www.bing.com/maps/
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Old 5th September 2014, 20:51   #1132
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On the same topic do we have to stick with Nokia maps only or there is a provision so we can download the Google maps as well?
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Old 5th September 2014, 21:07   #1133
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
On the same topic do we have to stick with Nokia maps only or there is a provision so we can download the Google maps as well?
Are google maps downloadable? I guess offline navigation is far better in Here Maps compared to Google. In this case, I guess it will be offline.
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Old 5th September 2014, 21:10   #1134
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

I had the 2011 Honda City 1.5 ltr 118 horses V-AT. I was not happy with the car driving dynamics, sluggish engine and the gearbox. I was happy with space & big car feel. I sold it in 2012 and bought the new Fiesta which was a hoot to drive but didnt have enough space at the rear.

I have been looking for a car for months now. I had initially booked the Octavia but a zillion horror stories drove me away. I wasnt too excited by the new City as the interiors are way too gimicky for me. The plastic quality/choice is questionable, puny tires, horrible music system display, laggy CVT. I just didnt like the package. Even though the interiors are more mordern then the car it replaces, but I feel the materials quality has gone down.

I find that in the market there is no perfect car under 20 lakhs. And really sometimes I feel ppl obsession with Honda badge makes it look like Lexus or an Audi then what it really is. Honda off late have gone the Toyota Etios way, that is skimp on quality and give Indians the badge and they will gulp it up. The Mobilios, the Amaze and the Brio interiors are a perfect example. I am not badge obsessed at all.

Coming to the cars themselves, the SX4 was never really a car. With time it became too dated and couldnt beat the competition. It was a cross over which was plagued with low FE and space. So it died its eventual death.

The Ciaz on the other hand is a contemprary product. Its not a looker, but definitely has more curves then the dated VW Vento or Rapid (the complete refresh of these cars is due ). The Vento has an excellent DSG gearbox and engine (TSI) and soon will have diesel with DSG. But I really feel that VW needs to give more things to the car then just engine and gearbox. The Ciaz in comparison is offering a lot more car for the money/segment.

My views maybe biased as I had almost decided to book Corolla or EcoSport but ended up being the first to book a Black Ciaz Zdi+. Saves me around 10 lakhs that I can use to upgrade my wife's Polo to Hyundai's upcoming mini SUV next year. Thats it for now, only time will tell if my decision was the right one. In the mean time. Good luck and god speed.

Last edited by aseem : 5th September 2014 at 21:12.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:11   #1135
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
My views maybe biased as I had almost decided to book Corolla or EcoSport but ended up being the first to book a Black Ciaz Zdi+. Saves me around 10 lakhs that I can use to upgrade my wife's Polo to Hyundai's upcoming mini SUV next year. Thats it for now, only time will tell if my decision was the right one. In the mean time. Good luck and god speed.
Congrats Sir on booking the Ciaz.

What was the booking charged and is it refundable in case of cancellation (I guess it should be!).

What is the expected delivery date?

All the best.

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:23   #1136
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
What was the booking charged and is it refundable in case of cancellation (I guess it should be!).What is the expected delivery date?
I had a call from a Kochi dealer who confirmed that the booking amount of Rs 21K is fully refundable. He said that the allotment would be based on that priority. This particular dealer got four bookings on the opening day.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:30   #1137
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I had a call from a Kochi dealer who confirmed that the booking amount of Rs 21K is fully refundable. He said that the allotment would be based on that priority. This particular dealer got four bookings on the opening day.
Thank you.

Any idea of what could the total booking received for this car throughout?

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:06   #1138
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Yesterday, I had called a dealer in Pune to check when the TD car would be available. He had said that there will be "nominal" Rs 1500 cancellation charge.
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:12   #1139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhil0405 View Post
Yesterday, I had called a dealer in Pune to check when the TD car would be available. He had said that there will be "nominal" Rs 1500 cancellation charge.
Is this a point made by the dealer or instruction given by Maruti?

Shouldn't it be standards across India?

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:19   #1140
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Is this a point made by the dealer or instruction given by Maruti?

Shouldn't it be standards across India?

Anurag.
I think it was the dealer. Might have got more inquiries for the Ciaz than expected. I did not want to argue with him over the phone since I am not even sure whether I will book the car.
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