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Old 27th September 2014, 12:19   #1411
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Comparing the Ciaz to a Vento diesel will be good to go on paper with the acceleration figures favouring the Ciaz. But when it comes to a practical situation, the overall power torque spread of the Vento would be better which would mean good response to any kind of driver, be it sedate or aggressive. Hence, lets put aside that comparison. End of the day, CC is CC no matter what the power or torque figures are.
End of the day you couldn't be further from the truth. The statement there is "no replacement for displacement" is buried in modern ancient history. With bi-turbo, superchargers, kers and what not, more and more vendors are downsizing their engines, deriving better efficiency figures and making cars more powerful (bhp) and driveable (torque).

You will understand it more in this language. The Polo/Vento Tsi is miles ahead of the 1.6 Mpi offered in Vento and Rapid earlier. But wait a minute... isn't CC is CC? Or is CC only CC when it suites the Vento to Ciaz debate?

In anycase, modern formula 1 is a testament of how making engines smaller, more efficient and still get loads of more power and torque is possible with turbo's and energy recover and weight reduction.
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Old 27th September 2014, 12:39   #1412
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by Kratos453 View Post

ENGINE. 999 Displacement(cc); 10:1 Compression Ratio; Max Power output in PS(KW) / RPM : 125(92)@6000 RPM
If you have driven the ecoboost, and then compared it with the petrol automatic, you will get to know the difference CC makes when it comes to driveability and response. Its not all about Max power output and Max torque output. See the spread. Thats what matters.

Having two Marutis at home, I dont have complaints against any of their cars. Its just that they cater to a certain group of people, and not all buyers alike. I belong to that group too, but I cant generalise that everyone should belong to the same. In the same way, where the Ciaz stands in features, comfort and reliablity, the german sibilings stand in their engine and transmission tech, and handling. Thats the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
You will understand it more in this language. The Polo/Vento Tsi is miles ahead of the 1.6 Mpi offered in Vento and Rapid earlier. But wait a minute... isn't CC is CC? Or is CC only CC when it suites the Vento to Ciaz debate?
Firstly, CC comparison was for diesel since both are CR engines. In terms of petrol, If the Ciaz had a Turbocharged direct injected 1.4L petrol engine with a seven speed transmission I wouldnt have delayed my booking by any chance. Neither would the CC comparison come to picture. When VW downsized engine, they provided a lot of tech to compensate that. Here it isnt so from the SX4.

Above all, yes I cant take my mind off the Ciaz and buy something else. Just that we should accept the car for what it is than think of a lot more.

Last edited by audioholic : 27th September 2014 at 12:48.
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Old 27th September 2014, 13:00   #1413
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
The wheelbase of 2650mm is so close to what D-segmenters like the Civic (2700mm) offered not so long ago! C segmenters are really matching the old D's in terms of size. Only engine sizes are going south!
Of course they are catering towards the typical mindset of "Kitna Deti Hain". So, from a performance perspective it maybe going south but from a fuel efficiency perspective they are releasing larger cars that offer more mileage than an Alto which is something to be pondered about as well!
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Old 27th September 2014, 13:41   #1414
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Just got off the line from the Chennai dealer. Training is over and he says he has all the information about the car but for the price and the actual car. Don't we have enough and more info about it even before him?
He still maintains the car will be launched only during the 2nd week of Oct and the cars have already been dispatched from the factory. Looks like a long wait and turn of events. Whats the need for so much of a curiosity building act. cant they just give a date and stick to it?
I doubt it will be priced any lower than the city. Cars will be reaching customer only in November at this pace. There goes festive season target for Maruti.

Last edited by Visaster : 27th September 2014 at 13:43.
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Old 27th September 2014, 14:10   #1415
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Any news on when the TD will be available?
I got second service of city scheduled near 5th Oct. Just next to it is Maruti showroom so I want to do the TD that day itself. My dad is sold out on Zest but if petrol Ciaz is otr 8 lac around then I am more interested in getting that.

Also, I Read the variants difference in detail. Vxi+ seems to be most VFM and I think will be a hot seller.
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Old 27th September 2014, 14:20   #1416
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
As far as specs are concerned, the Ciaz is faster to a ton compared to the City diesel by almost 3 seconds.
You seem to be repeating the 11.3 seconds 0-100 of the Ciaz in almost every post and claiming it to better than every other car in the segment.

Now, I dont know where that 11.3 seconds number comes from..Can you please enlighten us? Don't tell me you picked up the number from Maruti's sales brochures. A road test from reliable source would be welcome.
Also, diesel is more about driveability. So, the in-gear numbers matters more.
Do you know those?

Having driven various iterations of the national engine, I can say with confidence that the Ciaz diesel will be not a match to the Vento diesel, not even close despite whatever tweaks Maruti has done. In a real world scenario, the Vento diesel will smoke the Ciaz diesel, period.

It seems to be that someone is trying to justify a purchase by comparing the Ciaz with every other car in the segment and claiming it to be better than others in almost every aspect.
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Old 27th September 2014, 14:25   #1417
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While the direct injection small capacity engines ( 1.0 ecoboost, 1.2 tsi) do pack quite a punch, lack of displacement really shows up when the car's fully loaded. Not sure whether this is more prominent on petrols than diesels.
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Old 27th September 2014, 14:54   #1418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post

You seem to be repeating the 11.3 seconds 0-100 of the Ciaz in almost every post and claiming it to better than every other car in the segment.

Having driven various iterations of the national engine, I can say with confidence that the Ciaz diesel will be not a match to the Vento diesel, not even close despite whatever tweaks Maruti has done. In a real world scenario, the Vento diesel will smoke the Ciaz diesel, period.
Absolutely agree with you.

I have been driving the Swift for 9 months (25K on odometer) along with Ertiga at home which has done 11K in 9 months as well. After using the car for so long I don't think this engine will be a match to the 1.6L TDI on the Vento.

Maruti can try whatever it wants but beating the Vento on performance is a bit tad difficult. The current iteration of the engine is at its best and maximum possible. Anything above, looses its charm.

Figures be it for FE or performance (26 kmpl and the 11.3 second respectively) could be published to garner attention. Moreover no buyer will be interested in the 0-100kmph figures. Things that matter will be the roll-on and the behaviour in B2B traffic and highways.

It is better to wait till the official review out and then continue this discussion. Till then it is like shooting arrows in dark.

PS: Everyone I see here is expecting a lot from Ciaz and Maruti. My request is to keep their hopes low, be it on pricing or performance or FE. If hopes break, then it'll be difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JishD View Post
lack of displacement really shows up when the car's fully loaded. Not sure whether this is more prominent on petrols than diesels.
You are right. This is what is happening with the Ertiga (1.3L VGT). It feels strained post 120 kmph. Hope the Ciaz feel this way.

Be it the Swift D or Ertiga D, it always feels like "Wish it had 6 gears so cruising would be effortless!".

A Fact: There is NO replacement for Displacement!

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 27th September 2014 at 15:23.
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Old 27th September 2014, 19:09   #1419
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Note from Support: Please do not indulge in personal attacks / arguments. Any further off topic posts may result in infractions on the poster's account. Thank You
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Old 28th September 2014, 09:25   #1420
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Now, I dont know where that 11.3 seconds number comes from..Can you please enlighten us? Don't tell me you picked up the number from Maruti's sales brochures. A road test from reliable source would be welcome.
Agree!

As of now, the number looks to be form Maruti's brochures and Sirish's test drive referred to it (but didn't test it). Its just looks like a tall claim.

11.3 seconds to the ton with either of those puny engines seems impossible, even with the weight reduction and all. I will believe it when a reliable 3rd party reviewer certifies it. A formal full fledged test by Autocar/Overdrive etc would easily bring out the truth.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 28th September 2014 at 09:27.
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Old 28th September 2014, 11:52   #1421
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
It is better to wait till the official review out and then continue this discussion. Till then it is like shooting arrows in dark.

You are right. This is what is happening with the Ertiga (1.3L VGT). It feels strained post 120 kmph. Hope the Ciaz feel this way.

Be it the Swift D or Ertiga D, it always feels like "Wish it had 6 gears so cruising would be effortless!".

A Fact: There is NO replacement for Displacement!
I believe the last statement mentioning "NO replacement for displacement" is a bit debatable. Innova is 2.5, Tavera is 2.5, Xylo is 2.2, Mobilio is 1.5. Ertiga diesel is second to only Xylo IIRC. Ertiga is, IMO, very competent on highway, even with full load. Innova with a very large 2.5 feels hopeless after 100, noise is in agriculture/commercial vehicle category. Tavera is more or less the same story as far as performance goes. ACI tested Mobilio and Ertiga and Ertiga was stated to be faster. Comparing it with Saloon like Vento is not an ideal comparison.
XUV 500 with a 2.2 is almost as quick as 3.0 Fortuner. XUV is not exactly feather weight either.
State of tune, gearing, aerodynamics, etc. matter a lot in real world. Example : Swift 1.2. In outgoing Swift the 1.2 was tuned more towards performance. In the current Swift, 1.2 was tuned for better refinement and part throttle response than strong top end.
As per ACI, Ritz 1.2 is faster than Swift 1.2.

Lets not compare 1248cc Fiat SDE with larger motors with different applications. If we are to go by figures, SX4 diesel with 90 bhp fiat SDE was faster in 0-100 than Honda City diesel. SX4 was heavier, more un-aerodynamic than City any given day. Does this make City diesel motor a bad one ? To each his own.

My take on Ciaz :

1) Very spacious. A very big positive in mid size segment. Can be used as a chauffeur driven car too.
2) Good ride + handling combo.
3) FE centric motor options. Targeting common man. "Men are Back" ( or something similar ) for SX4 was more specific market focused advertisement and "Surprising Performance" (Baleno)was again more towards performance which the product offered.
Ciaz targets the family man. An all rounder, jack of all trades master of none category. I believe this will bring in success.
4) Part sharing and mechanical sharing = less maintenance cost overall.
5) Projector lights even on base variant. I somehow like projector set up and with it had bi-xenon one.

Negatives :
1) Does not look striking.
2) Engines a notch lower than competition.

Pricing will be key, but Ciaz certainly is a smart buy IMO. Might be a bit on boring side, but its like Corolla in US market. Considered boring, but still has a respect for what it offers. If they price base petrol just above Dzire VXi , Ciaz will be an incredible success. I spent 6.5 on Grand i10 crdi after which petrol prices came down much more than expected. Result : Paying EMI for Hyundai and using K10 WagonR more than Hyundai. Hyundai has averaged less than 400 kms. per month. Point is : Petrol cars are seriously capable of making a comeback, Ciaz could be right tool for Maruti to crack a segment it could never do so. The FE figures are not bad for petrol and with a lower base price, cash registers will get ringing. The option of converting to CNG will be an added benefit.
Which bring me to my last point for post : Ertiga 1.4 is available with CNG. Can we have a Ciaz CNG too in base variant ? There will be many fleet buyers for this IMO. A large boot means not all practicality will be lost.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 28th September 2014 at 11:55.
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Old 28th September 2014, 12:14   #1422
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) Very spacious. A very big positive in mid size segment. Can be used as a chauffeur driven car too.
2) Good ride + handling combo.
3) FE centric motor options.
these three are great points. If am buying a car which is primarily chauffeur driven, Ciaz would be a perfect choice with nice ride, space and great FE. That, i believe is Ciaz's USP.

It would also appeal to the mass majority who is looking at all the above and is not as interested in performance as we TBHPians are.

Do i expect it to outsell the City? No, i think Honda City has a much better brand value in this segment. However it should make a good impression in the C+ segments and i hope it becomes a success. Its great to have competition!
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Old 28th September 2014, 13:00   #1423
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Default re: Team-BHP SCOOP: Maruti Ciaz / YL1. Scoop Pics on Page 99

We own the previous gen City and to put things in an owners perspective:

1) After 2k km the engine starter motor went bust. Honda blamed this on us trying to double start the car and charged us 15k Rs to replace (Even though I have extended warranty and never have double started the car).
2) The front tyres have got punctured 11 times over the past year and hence have had to replace them with Yokohama's.
3) There is water leaking in somewhere from the front wind shield panel gaps and Honda refuses to agree that it is a manufacturing defect.
4) In addition to the front side there is a leak from the cladding area of the back right wheel. During the monsoon water collected inside the vehicle and spoilt the seats. Again Honda refuses to agree that it is a manufacturing defect.
5) The ride quality is jarring over Mumbai's monsoon ravaged roads. Feels like driving a boat sometimes.
6) All throughout Honda denies that there is a manufacturing defect in the vehicle, I took it to my local garage guy and he said there seems to be a gap in the welding between the panels or suspension frames.

Its the biggest mistake of my life and hence now have gone and booked the Ciaz ZDi+ which I am sure is going to blow Honda out of the reckoning for good.

MSIL is better any every possible way except snob quotient which is now addressed with the launch of the Ciaz.

Last edited by Eddy : 28th September 2014 at 19:18. Reason: No foul language please, even indirectly.
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Old 29th September 2014, 10:54   #1424
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Im surprised to see so many posts claiming that the Ciaz will outsell the City , Verna etc. without even Test driving the car and without knowing the pricing along with Anti- City and Anti- Ciaz comments.

Honestly this is the best effort from MSIL after SX4 and Baleno. You just cannot hate the Ciaz . The only reason the Ciaz might not sell in larger volumes could be the MSIL brand perception in this segment. I hope they price it well and wish the Ciaz sells well to increase their brand image as well.
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Old 29th September 2014, 12:54   #1425
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Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post

Honestly this is the best effort from MSIL after SX4 and Baleno. You just cannot hate the Ciaz . The only reason the Ciaz might not sell in larger volumes could be the MSIL brand perception in this segment. I hope they price it well and wish the Ciaz sells well to increase their brand image as well.
Success of the ciaz will mainly depend on its initial pricing. I am sure that many people will ignore the brand value for utility and cost.
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