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Old 11th August 2013, 18:23   #16
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

There are more K10 s' in India like Toyota Etios / liva , Honda Brio/ Amaze , Innova . But they thrive here as we don't have any agency like American highway safety authority or euro ncap to check the safety of these vehicles . If we had such an agency many vehicles sold wouldn't have been here .

We are interested in stupid things like kithna milti hai . Nobody is bothered about safety , many tend to think that if there are airbags everything is fine .
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Old 11th August 2013, 18:45   #17
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

If you want a feather-weight car that gets good FE, this is the price you pay

People wonder why the A-star is so heavy while offering no more interior space and I think you know the answer now.

I would advise all K10 owners to exercise caution and avoid high speed travel on un-divided highways.

Also note, airbags cannot and will not save lives if the basic structure is so weak.

Last edited by Mpower : 11th August 2013 at 18:47.
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Old 11th August 2013, 18:56   #18
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

We are interested in stupid things like kithna milti hai . Nobody is bothered about safety , many tend to think that if there are airbags everything is fine .[/quote]

-- aah.. finally there are people on this forum talking about a very important aspect, SAFETY I had posted a couple of posts with regard to the aspect of safety but found no response and had given up hope. I agree completely with you Swathyd, we are more interested in how the car looks, what the pick up is , what the mileage is and how spacious it is. Not that these are not important, but I have not once seen anyone ask on this forum... Has this car been Crash Tested? How did it fare in the crash test???
We the buyers are as responsible as the manufacturers for letting them palm off swanky looking coffins on wheels.
While K10 not scoring in the crash test does not come as a surprise, many of the Maruti models sold in other countries and were brought in by Suzuki to India have undergone crash tests to comply to norms in those countries where human life is valued and thus providing some level of safety to the Indian buyer.
To my knowledge, the only Indian manufacturer that deligently does this inspite of this not being a mandatory condition in India is Tata for their passenger cars- Nano, Indica, Indigo, Safari ( not Sumo). As for the Toyota's , Nissan's, Ford's and Hyundai's if the model is sold in Europe or the US , it has been crash tested, however if there is a "Made for India" model, they may prefer not to spend the kind of money in a market where nobody cares.

Mahindra has only done the crash test for XUV500 ( and here too in the Ncap it did not score too well), not for any other, these chappies have been fooling the public by fitting ABS and Airbags on Scorpio's and making a killing ( pun intended) of it. A set of airbags or ABS is not a n alternative to a crash test. But then who cares? We are a billion plus people and like every thing else in surplus life also is a cheap commodity in this country.We are a country where the typical response to the news of an accident is Gaadi ko kya hua??
It is forums like this that needs to build the momentum towards safety, educate the motorists on why this is one of the important aspects they need to look into before putting their hard earned money on the table and why they need to follow the rules when using the road whether it be wearing the helmet or stopping when you see the red light at the signal. I believe we can make a difference. May I request that we have a section on the crash worthiness of the vehicle in all our reviews of new models in the future?

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th August 2013 at 04:37. Reason: Only 2 smilies per post allowed, please read the board rules carefully, thanks
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:04   #19
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

This is why team bhp is so special, things which are very much unknown to even a normal auto buff are shared here.

I am very happy to read this, i was made to look like a fool when i bought Nano over Alto.

What i am surprised , is why doesn't TATA Motors advertise this particular aspect of its vehicles ( that it has in house crash testing facility ).

TATA group has always been honest to our country and this is one more beautiful example. ( I am not related to TATA group in any way, except for being a very happy nano owner )
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:12   #20
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

GTO and the tbhp reader that shared this - Thank you. Although I am a safety maniac, I would have never bothered to check the safety rating of the car I was buying and would be happy just checking the 'features' such as ABS or air-bags. This will ensure I look up safety and crash ratings before my next purchase.
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:22   #21
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

I would have been much happy if the Alto K10 was nothing but the A-Star in a slightly lower price bracket. The task of shoehorning the K10 into more than a decade old platform was defintely bad idea. Was shocked looking at how the Dashboard and steering(supposedly collapsible) crush the driver and passenger. As obvious, these cars do not even stand a chance against a crash test.

What surprises me is how did such a low spec, barebone car end up in the Latin NCAP? That too without any ABS, Airbags etc. Structurally I agree it is weak, but why did this car even go outside India?
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:26   #22
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

A Big Thanks!

I am happy that TBHP is giving this publicity for the cause of safety. With this car selling around 17,000 copies a month I am sure MSIL would not want this. However, I have been always annoyed with MSIL for selling important safety features as luxury features. Visit any of their showroom and the SA's there coolly tell that ABS and Airbags are not really required! Also they were till recently quoting ridiculous waiting times on their top end variants.

But the biggest blame should go to GOI and SIAM, for overlooking safety. I am not so sure why they have been sleeping so long without making a certain safety features mandatory. SIAM being an industrial body, its quiet understandable (that they don't lobby for safety features) but GOI?
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:28   #23
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Default Crashtested Nano had a modified BIW

From what I remember, the Nano crash test used cars that had modifications done to their Body-In-White structure. The regular Nano on our road would meet the same fate as the K10.
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:33   #24
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
What surprises me is how did such a low spec, barebone car end up in the Latin NCAP? That too without any ABS, Airbags etc. Structurally I agree it is weak, but why did this car even go outside India?
The Latin NCAP is not like the Euro NCAP.

The Euro NCAP is something which is backed by the various EU governments and the tests are aligned with European regulations. Similarly the Australian NCAP and the American NHTSA are according to their local requirements.

The Latin NCAP on the other hand is funded by the FIA Foundation and other private foundations, to increase public awareness. They basically follow the same procedures as the Euro NCAP. But the local laws in South America are pretty much as lax as they are in India.

India too was supposed to start using a "lite" version of the European norms, but this has been delayed due to various reasons. And I am sure, with the automobile industry in a down turn, auto companies will push for a further delay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
From what I remember, the Nano crash test used cars that had modifications done to their Body-In-White structure. The regular Nano on our road would meet the same fate as the K10.
Various versions of the Nano were tested by Tata, at their in house facility. The Nano Europa had various modifications so that it not just met the European norms, but exceeded them enough to garner a decent EuroNCAP rating.

The version tested by MIRA, was basically a Indian variant with airbags.

Last edited by julupani : 11th August 2013 at 19:36.
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:36   #25
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
What surprises me is how did such a low spec, barebone car end up in the Latin NCAP? That too without any ABS, Airbags etc. Structurally I agree it is weak, but why did this car even go outside India?
Why not? Much of Latin america consist of developing economies like India and cars like these sell well there.

I'm glad these cars are finally being tested
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:37   #26
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

I am not at all surprised. This is a JAP KEI car engineered in the 90s. For a reasonable comparison, the 1997 Mercedes C Class got 2 stars in the EuroNCAP crash tests and this was even equipped with dual front and side impact airbags (not saying that these are life savers but they do make a difference atleast to the damage incurred by the car's occupants wearing seat belts). So instead of criticizing the car, or comparing it to the Tata Nano which was engineered by a company with in-house crash test facilities in 2009, we MUST question our government's stand on this. Why are old cars like this allowed to be sold in our country? Why don't we have any authority or standard for rating the safety of vehicles being sold here?

Last edited by IshaanIan : 11th August 2013 at 19:44.
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:42   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post

Also note, airbags cannot and will not save lives if the basic structure is so weak.
Mpower, in this case, would an airbag not have significantly protected the chest area from getting punctured by the steering?
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Old 11th August 2013, 20:08   #28
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Mpower, in this case, would an airbag not have significantly protected the chest area from getting punctured by the steering?
Maybe slightly but not significantly. (note, it was never intended to work like that)

Its the seat belt that prevents occupant's torso from being flung forward. Airbag merely softens the impact with which the bodyparts are flung forward and restricts parts of the body that are not restrained by the seat belt (arms/legs & head)

For an airbag to work properly, the air-bag mounting point (steering column) should remain fairly rigid. Now with so much deformation, the steering itself is moving towards driver taking the airbag with it, & instead of opening in (say) 1 inch in front of the driver...will explode in his face and injure him further.

Last edited by Mpower : 11th August 2013 at 22:59.
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Old 11th August 2013, 20:11   #29
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

[quote=julupani;3205662]The Latin NCAP is not like the Euro NCAP.

The Euro NCAP is something which is backed by the various EU governments and the tests are aligned with European regulations. Similarly the Australian NCAP and the American NHTSA are according to their local requirements.

The Latin NCAP on the other hand is funded by the FIA Foundation and other private foundations, to increase public awareness. They basically follow the same procedures as the Euro NCAP. But the local laws in South America are pretty much as lax as they are in India.

India too was supposed to start using a "lite" version of the European norms, but this has been delayed due to various reasons. And I am sure, with the automobile industry in a down turn, auto companies will push for a further delay.



I agree with Julupani, and I also read Bhpian's holding various authorities responsible, my view is that we the Indian buyer is as responsible to accept this kind of standard, the objective of any business is to make profit, call me a capitalist, but that does not change the truth. Unless customers demand or the law stipulates on safety norms , this will not happen except by a few companies like Volvo, where this is their USP.. and how many of us can afford a Volvo Passenger car/ SUV ??

To Indian's. disaster / accident is something which happens to others- "it can never happen to me!!" . Look at the way we treat fire drills or for that matter any safety law ( wearing helmet, seat belt, carrying infants and children in the front seat) when in US all this is followed, I have relatives who seem to have forgotten this basic safety tenet once they reached India; because this is not mandated by law

For the taxes that we pay ( Excise duty, Octroi, Road Tax, Toll, Infrastructure cess...) I find no reason why the Indian vehicle owners should not demand basic safety specifications to be drawn up considering the Indian scenario!!

Maybe if we do that and pressurize the the govt, it may realize that the safety norm specified needs you to be in a T-90 tank on Indian roads!! and they may find a new venue to make more money

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th August 2013 at 04:39. Reason: Only 2 smilies per post allowed, please read the board rules carefully, thanks
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Old 11th August 2013, 20:12   #30
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Default Re: Maruti Alto K10: ZERO Star Safety Rating in the Latin NCAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Mpower, in this case, would an airbag not have significantly protected the chest area from getting punctured by the steering?
Sorry for replying to a question intended for somebody else.

Personally, I dont think the airbag would have made much difference in the case of the K10.

Take a look at the final state of the structure. The entire passenger compartment around the driver has been severely compressed. The entire dashboard along with the steering wheel have moved towards the driver and the roof above the driver has buckled. Despite airbags being a huge help, it is still nothing but a bag of gases and not a structural component.

Compare the final state of the K10, to that of the Nano, as shown in the picture in the Autocar link. You will see that the chassis structure around the passenger compartment is largely intact and has retained its shape. Despite there being nothing up front in the Nano, the frontal structure has been able to absorb a lot of the impact and transmitted all the crash energy around the passenger compartment in a safe way.

In fact, it may even be that in case of the K10 the airbag may have done more damage rather than provide a helping hand. With the steering wheel moving towards the drivers chest and face, the expanding airbag would have given a massive punch to the face and chest of the driver. Airbags, it size, shape, pressure etc, are designed to function when the steering wheel is in relatively the same place as it would be normally.

Last edited by julupani : 11th August 2013 at 20:14.
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