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Old 26th August 2013, 12:07   #151
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
When the engine stalls the vacuum assisted brakes don't work! I think that constitutes a huge risk to life.


Also I think in this case as it is a Vag car the chances of it being the manufacturers fault is very high!
Wrong. All cars WILL have atleast 1 or 2 Braking assitance left on the resovoir. Even after that, you can still brake the car un-assisted, which means pressing the brake pedal really hard. On my Vento, diesel (and my swift petrol, earlier) its 2 presses, and 3rd one on it goes progressively worse. But I tried on a stand still car, so may be it is good for one use and then it progressively worsens when the car is on move.
However, since the brakes have direct linkage, you can still brake the car, just that pedals are un-assisted and hence hard.
I believe a lot of countries mandate laws that specifically states that steering and brakes need to have direct linkages to the pedal for precisely such situations.
So my friend, even though the car stalled on the highway for whatever reason, an informed driver cannot use it as an excuse to wreck the car or even imply a reason for possible wrecking, since the car just reverts to an old fashioned car. I'm just about stepping into my thirty, and I can remember the times when car were un-assisted (both braking and steering), Im pretty sure that the Audi driver has seen them both.
However whether if he had the right frame of mind, and knowledge if this is what will happen is another matter entirely.
Also, I have said this before, I will say it again. In the event of a car failure, this is exactly what happens from M800 (with Brake boosters and power steering) all the way to the S-Class ( or Phantom, or <insert the most expensive car you know here>).

So the driver DID have steering and braking control. Unless there was failure in steering linkages, or brake fluid leak or a master cylinder failure (again unlikely, since as far as I know, all cars come with dual brake lines as a fail safe mechanism).

So apart from the Engine failure, there was a driver failure too for leading to a close shave for them on the highway.
Note : I'm in no way siding anyone, here. Merely pointing out the fact that lack of knowledge on the car basics can also potentially kill you on the highway.
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Old 26th August 2013, 13:10   #152
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by Bluebeem View Post
I wouldn't completely agree with you Dr.


While i agree some of the owners may just be getting greedy but i dont think i need to prove who's greedier here, AUDI or the customer.
Try walking into an AUDI showroom and talking to an SA. The first thing that'll come to your mind is "how arrogant are these people". And it only gets worse when you're an owner talking to the after sales guys.
Not such a bad idea to teach these guys a lesson.
+1. Its not greediness, its about attitude of these companies. In western world they treat customer as King, and here they become King themselves. The person buying a product above 30 L rupees needs to be handled that way. Besides technicalities, they must understand to satisfy the EGO. Which may be achieved just by right attitude in resolving such problems.
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Old 26th August 2013, 13:33   #153
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Default Re: Audi Mumbai West - Horrible Delivery Experience

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This is the problem. You cannot imagine a white German manufacturer can go wrong.

You may suggest AUDI to sell their cars with the warning that "THIS CAR MAY FAIL AT ANY TIME WITHOUT WARNING. IN THAT SITUATION THE CAR WILL NOT BE REPLACED". This could help a customer better .
Its rather unusual to find cars like Audi's giving such engine troubles and problems within a span of two years. We must Remember that the dealer has done what is correct as per their bylaws and protocol.

Before we play a nice round of blame game, its easier to just think that mistakes by any manufacturer and any quality control enforcer are not impossible. Such things do happen and hence termed as bad luck. What we can take from it is how it is Dealt with without delay.

As for the tag on the car coming with a tag of failing, well its the same as tagging any car as " PLEASE AVOID DRIVING INTO A WALL TO AVOID DAMAGE " Its car trouble and It can happen to anyone.
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Old 26th August 2013, 14:28   #154
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

co-incidentally my team mate had a similar experience with the timing belt snapping while he was working in the US. His was a 2000 model Honda Accord which had done 150,000+ miles. As he described the experience, there were no engine warning light or any of the usual tell tale lights blinking on the dashboard. Even the car did not act up showing any signs of mechanical fault, it just happened in a split second and the car abruptly came to a halt. Luckily he was not on the freeway when this happened.

To think that every where else in the world, they have switched to timing chains instead of belts makes me wonder if Audi is making Indians pay more for old technology In this case it certainly appears like a mechanical fault rather than owner abuse, else Audi would not have agreed to replace the engine in the first place.
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Old 26th August 2013, 14:40   #155
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by highonwheelz View Post
- An Audi owner drove his car into the sea and expected a replacement because the tow truck took "too long" to get there.

- A Bike owner went head on into a truck and refused to pay for the repairs because the brakes in his opinion were faulty.

- LOTS of people refuse to pay for their "free service" because it is supposed to be FREE!
With due respect I would like to state that the examples quoted by you are of utter foolishness that people can fall prey to and to compare these with 'Indian Business Sensibilities' is really derogatory to the people concerned, in my honest opinion.
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Old 26th August 2013, 14:44   #156
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

Audi might not accept this but this episode for sure is a wake-up call for all manufacturers, not limited to automobile domain who drop their quality levels substantially when they are selling in India. Perhaps the Indian mindset is also responsible for this - In EU, the USP of any car is rated is 'NCAP Safety ratings' whereas 'ARAI certified fuel economy' in India.

Came across many products which are sold at the same price as EU in India but the quality is 30-40% cheaper here.
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Old 26th August 2013, 15:47   #157
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by pahwa View Post
Audi might not accept this but this episode for sure is a wake-up call for all manufacturers, not limited to automobile domain who drop their quality levels substantially when they are selling in India. Perhaps the Indian mindset is also responsible for this - In EU, the USP of any car is rated is 'NCAP Safety ratings' whereas 'ARAI certified fuel economy' in India.

Came across many products which are sold at the same price as EU in India but the quality is 30-40% cheaper here.
This is common here boss. The only thing is Kitna Deti Hai is all that matters. Safety is not even known properly to the masses. Till awareness spreads and people choose for safety features with mileage till then NCAP Ratings won't matter much.

Anurag.
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Old 26th August 2013, 15:47   #158
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Hi guys, I have a doubt here.
A lot of members have cited examples of engine failures in their or their acquaintance's cars with the car coming to a halt 'abruptly'.
What I want to ask is, in case of an engine failure or something similar, does the car stop abruptly in a matter of seconds or it starts kind of 'free-rolling'?
Sorry, i might sound very noob here.
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Old 26th August 2013, 16:00   #159
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
This is common here boss. The only thing is Kitna Deti Hai is all that matters. Safety is not even known properly to the masses. Till awareness spreads and people choose for safety features with mileage till then NCAP Ratings won't matter much.

Anurag.
+1 Anurag, . However, the manufacturers will also have to play an important role in creating the awareness and focus on the product quality and not just mileage.

More importantly, the quality of products should be consistent across borders. It should not go down just because there are not enough regulations in place in one country.
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Old 26th August 2013, 16:11   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midazolam View Post
Hi guys, I have a doubt here.
A lot of members have cited examples of engine failures in their or their acquaintance's cars with the car coming to a halt 'abruptly'.
What I want to ask is, in case of an engine failure or something similar, does the car stop abruptly in a matter of seconds or it starts kind of 'free-rolling'?
Sorry, i might sound very noob here.
The wont come to a dead halt the moment engine fails but there would be resistance from the transmission and it would decelerate faster. Free-Rolling would happen if you press the clutch to disengage the transmission. This is very dangerous sometimes.

There would be a feeling like if you down-shift a gear the way engine responds would be the condition when the engine fails.

Anurag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahwa View Post
+1 Anurag, . However, the manufacturers will also have to play an important role in creating the awareness and focus on the product quality and not just mileage.

More importantly, the quality of products should be consistent across borders. It should not go down just because there are not enough regulations in place in one country.
I would say more than the manufacturer's it is the responsibility of the Government of India to impose strict rules and no budging if no safety features are given in any model of a car. ARAI, SIAM should provide hard real time statistics that would help in getting in safety for the masses.

The manufacturers are happy as their costs are down due to no need for high end safety features, investment, R&D, inventory etc etc.

It is a hand-in-hand movement from the government to educate the masses about the features and then ask the manufacturers to install it in the cars and only then sell. High OTR also would be an issue but Safety & Quality come at a price.

MODS: Sorry the 30 minute time limit for editing was over else I would have used the multi-Quote!

Anurag.

Last edited by noopster : 29th August 2013 at 12:58. Reason: Please don't post back-to-back
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Old 27th August 2013, 08:55   #161
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

A couple of days back this was seen on twitter. Could it be anymore annoying to a customer of a premium-luxury car.
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Old 27th August 2013, 09:44   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midazolam View Post
Hi guys, I have a doubt here.
A lot of members have cited examples of engine failures in their or their acquaintance's cars with the car coming to a halt 'abruptly'.
What I want to ask is, in case of an engine failure or something similar, does the car stop abruptly in a matter of seconds or it starts kind of 'free-rolling'?
Sorry, i might sound very noob here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

The wont come to a dead halt the moment engine fails but there would be resistance from the transmission and it would decelerate faster. Free-Rolling would happen if you press the clutch to disengage the transmission. This is very dangerous sometimes.

There would be a feeling like if you down-shift a gear the way engine responds would be the condition when the engine fails.

Anurag.

It depends on the nature of the problem. There have been cases of the steering getting jammed, the front wheels getting locked up etc. in fact that's exactly what happened with a friend's Q7 (example cited earlier in the thread) high speed and boom! Steering and front wheels got locked up! the result was a deadly crash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post

I dont understand how does it risk his life? Do you think the car stalling means that it was going at 140 kmph at one moment and came to a compete standstill in the middle of the road in another?
Dr. Mohit, sir with all due respect that's exactly what happens ! . I would imagine when you're having such a spirited POV you would have your facts straight sir.

The steering wheel locking up is very common when premium cars face problems, but it has got to do with the ignition lock because that is what locks the steering wheel .Like when you turn the key off ,that's when the steering wheel will go to the lock position. So in many cases when computers/engines fail due to any reason, there's a chance your steering could get jammed/locked.
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Old 27th August 2013, 10:04   #163
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
With due respect I would like to state that the examples quoted by you are of utter foolishness that people can fall prey to and to compare these with 'Indian Business Sensibilities' is really derogatory to the people concerned, in my honest opinion.
Firstly, I would like to state that I meant absolutely no disrespect to anyone on this forum. What I was trying to do was draw an analogy between the current case at hand and some others that the Auto industry has actually witnessed and keeps witnessing.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if this car was a part of a bigger deal (10 cars), so I don't understand why this keeps coming up. Whether it is one car deal or a 100 car deal, the car owner has to be treated the same way by the car manufacturer. This will not have any bearing even in a court of law.

Thirdly, again I do not mean any offence to anyone, when we say that we are proud of our Indian business mentality, we are 'proud' about it for all the wrong reasons. Not for our keen business acumen and skills in the trade, but for other obvious reasons which I do not want to state here. On the other hand, the Germans for instance, are known for their engineering brilliance, the Italians for art and design, etc. Even the Chinese, for their super cheap, super unreliable products. Its high time we get a niche, a positive one at that.

If everything is not black and white in India, we accept it, and expect the other companies to also accept it. We don't do anything about it. Is this the Indian mentality that we are proud of? If we see someone jumping the signal, not that we endorse such a behavior but we look at it as 'normal'. Someone littering the road, we again see it as 'normal'. There are exceptions, but I am talking about the majority here. Likewise someone makes an unreasonable request to a car manufacturer and tries to muscle them out with numbers, we again see it as 'normal' and are bound to support the car owner also because he is Indian and the manufacturer is German.

Lastly, I also do not understand how a lot of people in this thread have been saying that he needs a replacement mainly because it is a 30 lakh car! How does that make him any more deserving that a person who has a 4 lakh car? In fact, most of the times, it would cost a 'middle class' man a lot more to buy a 4 lakh car than a rich guy to buy a 30 lakh car, if you know what I mean.
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Old 27th August 2013, 13:03   #164
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by highonwheelz View Post
Lastly, I also do not understand how a lot of people in this thread have been saying that he needs a replacement mainly because it is a 30 lakh car!

The replacement is needed, because the car put his life in danger and he has no trust in the repaired car any more. As simple as that.The same would go for a nano too. Whether it has happened in the past or happens elsewhere in the world is of no consequence here. This is purely the owner's personal belief and I would have done the same.

I am surprised at some of the pro manufacturer stances that have been taken. There is no harm in trying to get what one desires for isn't it? That's positive thinking, even if the world considers it foolish or unworthy. If manufacturers use their muscle power, then they are great but if the businessmen use theirs, everyone wants to do a post mortem of their source of income and theirdressing sense and the driving capabilities and what not.

I hope those guys, use their political prowess and influence and manage a lockout at the dealers workshop for a few days. This is the only way to treat high-handed MNC's who treat Indians like dirt.

Last edited by riteshritesh : 27th August 2013 at 13:25.
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Old 27th August 2013, 13:18   #165
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Default Re: 15 bizmen set to return their Audis after ‘bad service’

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Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
The replacement is needed, because the car put his life in danger and he has no trust in the repaired car any more. As simple as that.The same would go for a nano too. Whether it has happened in the past or happens elsewhere in the world is of no consequence here. This is purely the owner's personal belief and I would have done the same.

I am surprised at some of the pro manufacturer stances that have been taken. There is no harm in trying to get what one desires for isn't it? That's positive thinking, even if the world considers it foolish or unworthy. If the manufacturers uses their muscle power, then they are great and big and if the businessmen use theirs, then everyone wants to do a post mortem of their source of income and his dressing sense and his driving capabilities and what not.

I hope those guys, use their political prowess and influence and manage a lockout at the dealers workshop for a few days. This is the only way to treat high-handed MNC's who treat Indians like dirt.


The manufacturers were as bad in US till Ralf Nader took up the consumer's rights to the judiciary and now you see the effects. There is an inti "Lemon" legislature if I am not wrong.

Though I sympathize with Audi, they have no right to let their vehicle stall in the middle of a highway, especially if the maintenance has been carried out at their outlet to their satisfaction.
If we also do it in India, no manufacturer will take the customer for a ride. I have driven Ambassadors, Fiats, Hondas and Marutis. At no time have I been stranded except for battery problems. But I see a lot of posts on the German cars "freeze" and let their owners down. I would surely feel sheepish if my 30L+ car just refused to budge on the highway. Neither would I feel great if my car gets a stratospheric repair bill just because I followed the "Marutis" in 1 foot of water.

After all I am paying for a transport and in my opinion the more expensive it is the better it should be. Roll Royce gained its reputation as it was a well designed and a well engineered car which would simply go on and on. The current crop of German "Engineering" is a mockery of the word, they fail at an alarming rate. If they were meant to be molly coddled "fair weather" transportation, let them say so. At least the unwary purchaser would know that their high value purchase has to be handled with velvet gloves and woe betide if you drive over pot holes or through puddles - they are meant for smooth highways - European Autobahns.

Last edited by Eddy : 27th August 2013 at 20:28. Reason: Extra smiley
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