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Old 4th September 2013, 11:57   #46
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Oranger View Post
I did not find GTO's comment about the sail recall anywhere. It is the Tavera which is recalled.
Correct me if I am wrong.
See this thread that states:

Quote:
General Motors has recalled 4,000 units of the Chevrolet Sail diesel, sold in hatchback and sedan guises. Production of the Sail diesel twins was stopped on the 3rd of June, 2013, with General Motors India citing "quality issues" in the cars' 1.3 liter turbo diesel engines, as the reason for the production halt.

Now though, the quality issues seem to have been ironed out as General Motors India has restarted production of the Sail diesel twins. 4,000 owners of the Chevrolet Sail diesel hatchback and sedan will be notified of the recall by General Motors and their cars will be fixed free of cost.
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Old 4th September 2013, 11:58   #47
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Thanks GTO. Great Analysis.
Numbers overall reflect the economic conditions in the country.
For a customer who has got money, this is also the time for great bargains
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Old 4th September 2013, 12:19   #48
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

If Fiat can refrain from botching up the upgraded interiors in the Linea (and later, the Punto) with poor quality materials, the only way the sales of these 2 cars can go, is upwards (provided they keep the discounts and offers rolling, I guess). And if they want volumes, they better start looking at beyond 2 cars for their India portfolio.


Skoda really needs to put more effort, in addition to engines and variants in the YETI, to sell them better. Clearly mini-SUVs are the flavour of the season and are going to remain that way for another year or two, given that 2014-2015 are going to be flooded with many such options from almost all manufacturers. And Yeti variants between 11L to 18L will really do Skoda some good and given their product quality, will also see some appreciable sales over the next 2 years.. Better after sales service, which I'm hoping relatively their new MD is working on, will only better aid any such efforts. Think about it, Skoda.

Amaze is doing what Honda hoped it would, for them. They try and can maintain their position in the top 5 manufacturers provided they bring a high quality, well priced Honda Jazz next year along with the new City in diesel. Of course, their planned mini-SUV and brio based MPV will further add impetus to hold their position.

Last edited by k_ajay : 4th September 2013 at 12:27. Reason: Adding more comments.
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Old 4th September 2013, 12:34   #49
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Kudos to GTO and Parrys for this wonderful analysis and the writeup. As an ex-TMLite feel very sad for Tata. I guess this trend will continue till as far as 2015 when the new models based on the AMP will start trickling into the market. Wish they pick up some speed soon.
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Old 4th September 2013, 12:39   #50
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The Grand i10 is going to hammer the already declining Figo some more.
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Old 4th September 2013, 13:47   #51
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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The purpose of my question (I hope it was a valid one, otherwise the moderators may please delete my post) was NOT to suggest the adoption of dubious practices, but to ensure consistency in recording facts and figures so that the reader can arrive at a more informed opinion.
Misquitas, first let me sincerely apologise if I sounded rude or alarmed by your proposal.

Your question is a very valid one indeed, no doubt about that. It does make sense to have the figures for all the offerings of a manufacturer in a single segment. But that must be done from our end, in a later post on the same thread, just like the trend you have pointed out in your first post. I even thanked your first post as soon as I read it because of the usefulness of finding out how a manufacturer is doing in a particular segment.

The problem is Tata do this from their end, in order to hide the poor monthly sales figures of some of their models. Because of this, we can never know how well individual vehicles such as the Vista, Manza etc. are doing. It's such a hypothetical situation of this trend (bad practice of Tata Motors) becoming mainstream that alarmed me, and not your idea of putting together the offerings from the same segment at all. I hope this clarifies the alarmist tone in my earlier post.


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Maruti, for that matter, is already following the Tata model to some extent. The Alto 800 and the K10 series are quite "different" (in engineering and aesthetics) in many ways, yet they are also clubbed together for sales purposes. Would it not have been nice, as many have suggested earlier on this forum, for Maruti to have provided separate sales figures for the 800 and the k10?
You're absolutely correct on that one. It's not just Tata Motors who're doing it, though they are the ones who do this in the most widespread and blatant manner, to hide some unpleasant sales numbers. Here is a list of all cars whose figures reveal some level of "clubbing":

HM-Mitsubishi - Lancer+Cedia (discontinued now)

Mahindra - Scorpio+Getaway (I don't think Getaway is included in their pick-up range, unlike the Bolero Camper)

Maruti Suzuki - Alto800+Alto k10 and Dzire+Dzire Tour

Tata - Indica+Vista, Indigo+Manza, Sumo+Grande and Safari+Storme

It's actually commendable of M & M to provide the individual figures for the Xylo & Quanto and the Verito & Vibe, though they could have clubbed them together. Maruti Suzuki Wagon R & Stingray as well as Nissan Micra & Active happen to be a new trend called "variant families" of the same model, so we can accept combined figures for the two.

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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
Let us, for a moment, take this hypothetical case. What if Maruti were to sell the earlier and current versions (which differ in engineering and design) of the Swift at the same time? Would Maruti have clubbed them together for sales figures or would their respective sales have been recorded differently?
They already do it in the form of the Swift Dzire and its taxi variant, the previous gen Swift Dzire Tour, so going by this they would have clubbed the two Swifts together in your hypothetical situation.

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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
Since the Alto shares the same name between the k10 and the 800, it was (presumably) clubbed together. Same was the case with the "Indica" and "Indigo" siblings. My question, therefore, was this: the i10 now has a fraternal twin and given the two above precedents, it would have been natural to have clubbed them together for purpose of "overall" sales of a particular brand from a company.

But nothing, I repeat, nothing should have stopped manufacturers from providing a split up of variant sales within the brand. Ideally, all companies could, and should, have also provided the breakup of brands (Alto, Indigo/Indica, i10) on the basis of fuel (petrol/diesel/LPG/CNG) as is recently being made available by some companies or platform, even it they share were the same 'name'. Had that happened, we would had known the split up in sales of the Alto (800 and K10), the i10 (1.1, 1.2 and now the CRDI engines), etc.
I completely agree with you on this.

It would be great to have the complete breakup for engines and factory-fitted fuel options as well for all cars, in addition to the petrol-diesel split they now provide.

The least we can expect of the manufacturers is to provide the sales of individual models and the petrol-diesel split. We can them club them together from our end to find out how a manufacturer is performing in a particular segment. But Tata doesn't see it that way, they are doing it from their end in order to hide some poor performers, and we simply have to accept whatever they give out. It's this kind of practice that should not be encouraged among other manufacturers, because if that were the case, then we would be completely clueless as to how individual models are performing.

I hope I've clarified what I meant to say. I hope you've understood that I was alarmed ONLY by the "clubbing" practice becoming more widespread among manufacturers to our detriment, and NOT by your proposal which would be very useful if we do it from our end.

Last edited by RSR : 4th September 2013 at 14:15.
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Old 4th September 2013, 14:03   #52
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Good analysis! As mentioned somewhere in the opening post, the shocker petrol price rise is going to affect first time buyers bad and many will think of keeping their existing bikes for a few months more. Overall the situation is nothing good. Every manufacturer has some different kind of problem on his hand this month. For FIAT all I can say is get rid of both Linea and Punto and get some fresh new cars here, otherwise they are doomed to be the last everytime; I don't think there is any other way around for FIAT.

Thanks for sharing the analysis.
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Old 4th September 2013, 14:09   #53
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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The Grand i10 is going to hammer the already declining Figo some more.
Agree to that statement. Hyundai enjoys a tremendous goodwill/brand recall in India and surely they'll do all they can to make the i10 Grand sell all out, like most of their other large volume products do.

Ford will likely feel the heat in 2014, when there will be more than a couple of mini-SUVs and any of the residual jubiliant atmosphere in their showrooms (which has almost dwindled now) will vanish and they'll be back to the ground, doling out discounts on EcoSport as well. Right now they're probably not focusing on promoting anything other than the EcoSport.

But is there any reason why the Figo sales are on a decline? By themselves, is the product now class matching (surely they don't seem class leading). I don't see EcoSport sales cannibalising the Figo, given their price differences.

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Old 4th September 2013, 14:39   #54
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Aha! Now the sales analysis looks complete. I really missed your "special comments" GTO.

Its really sad to see Tata Motors slipping off every month. Looks like even the Horizonext program failedto attract customers to the dealerships. I just hope the guys at TML are soon able to revive this Indian manufacturer.

They need to hire someone who can vision a design past " INDICA/INDIGO".
Aria, Indica/Indigo, Vista/Manza all seem to look alike.

They should have also kept a Bifurcation between Public transport and private vehicle segments. Like Indica/Indigo purely for Public Transport and Vista/Manza for private folks. They could have shared the engines between both the variants and kept the price difference at a region that would deter to be used as taxi cabs and prove attractive to the private market.

With Nano, a bigger wheel base would do wonders. Right now it looks like a auto-rickshaw on 4 wheels. They are no longer in the 100,000 segment, so why not introduce a variant of the Nano that looks bit bigger and beefier. Kind of like the difference between i10 and i20 from a size perspective.

Lastly, the quality department needs to be overhauled. There is no way, so many critical issues should crop up at production stage. I feel its more of a culture gap. We have chalta hai attitude in general and we use that while testing. However we don't have chalta hai attitude when we spend money on something. That's where I see the gap.

The Indian manufacturer's would benefit , if they use the QA team from the Europe/Americas/Japan region. I know they would be expensive, so if they are used post Indian QA process, the quality would be much better and the cost factor could also be limited to a degree.
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Old 4th September 2013, 15:56   #55
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

I am curious as to why Verito Vibe is getting classified as sedan in the C1 segment.

I am wondering whether Fiat could have a winner in the upcoming Jeep Wrangler or it is yet again turning out to be yet another misadventure given the CBU route that the manufacturer is adopting.

There was a news that VW group would attempt to bring down Skoda pricing levels to match the perceptional hierarchy it enjoys in other markets vis-a-vis other marques of the VW stable. Since it would require eroding a bit of the prestige Skoda enjoys in India, this could be a tricky and time consuming exercise. For instance, cutting down the price of Yeti 4x4 to the levels found in other countires (~Rs. 15 lakh) could pump up the volume but at a cost of antagoinzing existing owners. The price points of India-made VW cars are generally (Vento being an exception when one compares it with the pricing of Skoda Rapid - Vento's stable mate) more in line with those in other countries (although technologically locally manufactured VW cars sold in India are inferior to those sold elsewhere). As a result, VW is doing relatively better than the Skoda stable mates. VW is also trnasitioning from old platform to the much touted MQB. This might require extensive retooling and won't therefore happen in the near term particularly because of the sinking rupee and the state of economy. Octavia MQB could be a game changer for Skoda but only if its pricing is reasonable. I am not sure whether that is possible because that would need Octavia to be at a price point similar to that of Vento.
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Old 4th September 2013, 16:13   #56
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Dear GTO & Parrys,
Comprehensive report, as always. Excellent work!

Do you have the Force One Suv Numbers? I am assuming it should be selling almost equal to the safari Storme.

Best,
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Old 4th September 2013, 17:11   #57
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Excellent analysis, thanks for sharing.
Do you have the numbers for Mahindra / Reva E2O..? It would be interesting to observe the market reaction towards a practical electric vehicle.
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Old 4th September 2013, 17:17   #58
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Recently lots of Amaze advertising has started on the TV. I was surprised by this sudden ads coming on every channels. Now i can see the reason. Honda is losing plot for Amaze very fast. Sales are down than previous month. If anyone still says its a production issue, i don't agree. This months City & Brio sales are down badly. So they could have made more Amaze for sure. I guess Amaze is losing to Ecosport mainly and other cars like Dzire, i20 etc. Honda has made big mistake by making same interiors as of Brio, which is bad in design & cheap kinda. I guess Amaze will soon settle to 4-5 K levels or even below that. Till now Dzire is winning.

Grand looks good but i guess it will mainly eat sales of i10 & i20 only. Not much threat to others. Again same family look ... Boring for me at least. All cars look similar, weather you buy 4 L Eon or 20 L Sonata. All similar looks. I don't like this strategy. Soon they will suffer from it once people gets bored of that typical look. VW is already suffering i guess.

As i predicted, Swift is gaining due to ready delivery and some freebies. People will love that Swift is readily available now which was not case for years. Also they are offering some discounts as well. Addition of 4 K than previous month just shows that. Overall Swift & Dzire making 28 K is great. Other duos like Polo-Vento, Punto-Linea, Liva-Etios etc are nowhere near also.
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Old 4th September 2013, 17:30   #59
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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I am curious as to why Verito Vibe is getting classified as sedan in the C1 segment.
The rear hatch does not open like a regular hatchback, rather the boot opens like it does in a sedan.

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Old 4th September 2013, 17:36   #60
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Default Re: August 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

[quote=captain.torque;3227454]Finally the overpriced Renault Duster has been put in its place by the Ford EcoSport. See, Renault this is what happens when you become greedy. Had the Duster been priced more competitively it wouldn't have been hit so hard by the Ford baby SUV.

I seriously loathe manufacturers who despite knowing the worth of their product loot their customers instead of offering them a value for money car. Kudos to Ford!

I know this post has all teh data but still i have compiled the sales figures of the 2 SUV's since the launch of EcoSport. I will update it every month

Hi Captain, I agree with you. However we also need to see how ecosport would do 1 year down the line in terms of volumes. I have seen some products having a very truncated life cycle with sales falling off the cliff within 6-9 months of the launch. Even XUV 500 which had massive demand in the initial 3 months has seen serious dip in volumes. We can blame the slowdown too for this.
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