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Old 14th July 2016, 09:37   #391
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

In my earlier post I had mentioned that Octane rating of the regular gas in India is 91 Octane which is incorrect; what I actually meant is 91 RON which translates to 86-87 Octane; my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Strange.

As you've said, the Coyote V8 is designed to run on regular pump-gas (US jargon) i.e. 91/93 RON. If fuel of inferior octane is the diet chosen for the car, the ECU adjusts the timing in order to prevent engine knocking and consequently, power drops to 400 ish (as per several articles and forum discussions). So it comes as a surprise that Ford chose to de-tune the motor in the first place.

So, what if you chose to run it on 97 Octane?
You’re right. The ECU would have detuned the engine however while detuning the engine at the factory itself Ford probably also changed/fine- tuned a number of other parameters in ECU/other affected sections of fuel system/valve train that could not be left to on the spot intervention by ECU. I think there might be other reasons for this detuning that I’m not aware of. If you use 97 RON/92-93 Octane you would not get any appreciable advantage by way of power delivery at the crank as the ECU has been programmed accordingly to run on 91 Ron/87 Octane, what you are assured of is very good quality gas that may help prevent other complications in the long term.

One thing I must caution all the folks driving the premium machines is that the regular gas in India (and in many other places around the world) has up to 10% Ethanol which is highly hygroscopic so if you’re driving an expansive car (especially from Europe) with a high displacement/highly strung/high power engine with or without forced induction, my suggestion would be to avoid regular gas (87 Octane/91 RON) if you can & use premium such as 95/97 RON.



Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
The engine in my Mercedes has a very similar compression ratio, and it runs regular fuel just fine though I choose to fill her up with 97. And so will most of the owners of the Mustang. Hell, none of the Germans are detuning their engines even though they are running forced induction, why should Ford with a relatively simple NA engine.

Also since you were in the oil industry, over here don't they measure in RON rather than Octane?
I agree with your assumption that engines using forced induction are more susceptible to pinging. I don’t know which model of Mercedes Benz you’re driving so I cannot comment however consider this, all the premium German marques carry a recommendation in their owner’s manual to use premium unleaded (91 Octane/95-97 RON). If you drive your car on regular gas, of course there will not be a catastrophic failure however there will be drop in the power delivered that may or may not be noticeable in day to day driving. In addition there will be slight drop in fuel economy as the ECU will run a rich mixture to compensate.

I am sure you have noticed that there’s substantial price difference between regular gas & premium gas (95/97 RON) in India. The premium gas accounts for less than 1% of sales at these gas stations and is most likely to be free of any contamination. Bottom-line, if you’re keen to use gas that is free of contamination/adulteration use premium but don’t expect any power increase (a very popular misconception) especially for engines that are designed to run on regular gas. If your car/SUV requires premium gas, stick to premium.

Respectfully if I may mention what you refer to as a plain American engine is right up there with the Europeans. It is a dual overhead cam, 32 valve engine with variable valve timing, not an antiquated push rod engine (though personally I think there’s nothing wrong with those either). For the sake of comparison let’s take the MB’s M 278 engine which has been used in S, SL, CL & GL class. It is a 4.6 ltr V8 and also employs two turbo chargers. It is rated at 429 BHP at 5,250 rpm. The 5 ltr. V-8 employed by Ford produces 435 BHP without forced induction.

The reason that Ford decided not to use forced induction is because the proverbial American Muscle car in its iconic form (they do have forced induction engines on other variants) needs toque & loads of it. Forced induction engine are typically peaky in nature & most of the time what they lack is the bottom end torque though I must also add that variable vane geometry turbochargers have taken care of that problem to a large extent.

For American muscle, there’s no replacement for displacement.

As for fuel grading system used in India; 10 years ago when I left, the Octane rating system was very much in vogue, if it has changed over the years, I stand corrected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Small correction, regular pump gas is 87, 91 & 93 are premium which is what the V8 requires.
RON is a European gas rating measurement while Octane is primarily American which is actually a mean of RON (Research Octane Number) & MON (Motor Octane number). 91 Ron is approx. equal to 87 Octane which is the regular gas. Premium would be 96 or 97 RON roughly equal to 91 Octane and other higher rated variants.

This Ford Mustang V8 is designed to run on 87 Octane/91 RON which is regular gas.

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 14th July 2016 at 09:41.
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Old 14th July 2016, 09:54   #392
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

On converting the price, it's a cool $ 1,00,000. About 2.25-3 times the local price at USA. *Please don't comment on the conversion. It's not the right thing to do, but I had to*

But a car with so much history attached to it will sell in decent numbers. Ford could have really got us excited if they could have delivered the car at about INR 45 ~ 50 lakhs.

Ford did the right thing by not getting the EcoBoost version.

Any idea what the ground clearance is? About 15x mm?
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Old 14th July 2016, 13:51   #393
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

It's a no brainer that the Mustang will turn out to be Fords BIGGEST B-L-U-N-D-E-R yet.

While it's absolutely great that Ford is bringing in the Mustang more so as I will get a chance to drive it, it just doesn't make sense from any angle.

Do they need a halo car like a Mustang to sell a Figo?

Aren't there cars like the Focus that would probably be more relevant?

Wouldn't just a 1.6 L engine in the new Fiesta have been a lot more beneficial / relevant to Ford for the Figo?

When they have made a disaster of the new Fiesta and other higher end vehicles such as the Mondeo, where will they get the competence to manage the Mustang?

The list of pointers to Ford's BIGGEST BLUNDER YET is a very big one and there's not much point going into all of it here.

But the most hilarious one is Ford's tag line:

Ford Mustang - Feels like Family

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 14th July 2016 at 14:09.
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Old 14th July 2016, 14:15   #394
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
It's a no brainer that the Mustang will turn out to be Fords BIGGEST B-L-U-N-D-E-R yet.

While it's absolutely great that Ford is bringing in the Mustang more so as I will get a chance to drive it, it just doesn't make sense from any angle.
I doubt if its the volume that Ford is looking at for Mustang in India.
The Mustang is first time in its life cycle is being made in RHD and they are just offering it to the RHD market such as Britain or India.
And considering that Ford has zero investment in India for the Mustang as its a CBU, I dont think that they have much to loose.
And we should be happy that at least Ford is offering this cult car to our market. But its our exorbitant import duties to blame which highly inflates the landing cost. What they could have done is they could have tried the CKD route.

Also I read in this thread only that the first lot is already sold out so I doubt if it so far looks like a blunder from any angle.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th July 2016 at 08:33. Reason: Please quote selectively as a large quoted post causes inconvenience to our mobile readers, thanks
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Old 14th July 2016, 17:11   #395
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

At about 50 Lakhs on the road, I would have tried hard to buy it, but 65 lakhs ex-showroom translates to 81+ lakhs on the road. This is way too much to pay for a mustang. I will pass. Good bye interesting thread, I won't be seeing you again :-).
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Old 14th July 2016, 21:13   #396
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

The 5.0 V8 GT starts from £35000 whereas the 2.3 Ecoboost starts at £31000 here in UK, which is roughly 32 Lakhs & 28 Lakhs respectively.

By the way, since there is no manual transmission available in India, i guess it doesn't have the Launch Control function. But what about the Electronic Line Lock function?
In UK, these are specified as 'Track Use Only'
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Old 15th July 2016, 11:07   #397
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
It's a no brainer that the Mustang will turn out to be Fords BIGGEST B-L-U-N-D-E-R yet.

While it's absolutely great that Ford is bringing in the Mustang more so as I will get a chance to drive it, it just doesn't make sense from any angle.
Personally, I think it represents value for what it offers in our market.

Sure, at 80-90 lakhs OTR, it may seem too expensive, especially considering that it costs about the same as a well-specced C-Class in other markets. But let us for a moment, have a look at what else is available in that price range.

Audi will sell you the TT for similar money, and that has a 2.0 4-pot turbo that's good for 230 horses. You'd also find SLKs and Z4s but the chances of them belonging to old stock would be high.

Spend a little more and you may get the AMG twins I.e. CLA45 / GLA45. They may provide similar levels of performance, but again these are front-biased all-wheel-drive cars powered by effective albeit dreary turbo 4-pot mills.

The Mustang on the other hand gives you, for the same ₹₹₹, a mammoth V8 that sounds like the spawn of Satan whilst propelling it to 100 km/h from 0 in under 5 seconds and incredible street-cred that only super-sports cars like the 911 enjoy. You'd have to look at cars, north of 1.5cr if you want similar performance, presence, etc.

While you could argue that Ford should have taken this opportunity to introduce cars like the Fiesta ST and the Focus ST / RS, and I wholeheartedly agree that these would make excellent and practical performance dailys, launching these in lieu of the Mustang makes no sense to me at all. I don't see these cars raking up the numbers whatsoever, especially when the segment is dominated by the Mini.

Here in India, brand value works. The Mustang as a sub-brand invokes a sense of passion and joy. In the world of automotive lunch-buffets, the Mustang is a jumbo cheese burger accompanied by a large slice of Apple pie and a side order of ice-cream whilst sophisticated cars like the TT are like small portions of greek-salads with minimal dressing.

After all, if you want a fun weekend ride and don't want to spend Porsche / Ferrari / Lamborghini money, the Mustang is the ideal alternative that does not compromise on the essential ingredients.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th July 2016 at 08:34.
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Old 15th July 2016, 15:27   #398
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Personally, I think it represents value for what it offers in our market.
Jaguar XFR
It is 20L more but comes with a supercharged V8 that does 503HP worth 625Nm torque. True bliss

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 15th July 2016 at 16:01. Reason: Quoted post trimmed = inconveniences mobile users.
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Old 15th July 2016, 17:30   #399
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Well somebody has already crashed a TD Mustang in Mumbai.

Excerpts from Motoroids facebook page:
Itís barely been a couple of days since the iconic Ford Mustang has been launched in India, and one has already gotten itself into a fender bender. The incident happened in Mumbai, and word has it that the ill-fated Mustang is a demo car for a local dealership. The cause of the accident is unknown, though we suspect that it is the handiwork of a potential customer who overcooked the test drive. However, the damages incurred seem to be merely skin deep, so the vehicle is far from totalled and still lives to tell the tale.
The front bumper, bonnet and the RHS front fender has taken a beating, and the visuals arenít pleasant at all. Fortunately, the scars can be healed without much ado, and the victimised Mustang will soon be up and running. It seems like that the ponyís 401 PS strong, 5.0-litre V8 engine, along with its rear wheel drive configuration, was too much to handle for the amateur driver, and thus goes the adage Ė with great power comes great responsibility.
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Old 15th July 2016, 17:56   #400
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Personally, I think it represents value for what it offers in our market.


The Mustang on the other hand gives you, for the same ₹₹₹, a mammoth V8 that sounds like the spawn of Satan whilst propelling it to 100 km/h from 0 in under 5 seconds and incredible street-cred that only super-sports cars like the 911 enjoy. You'd have to look at cars, north of 1.5cr if you want similar performance, presence, etc.

After all, if you want a fun weekend ride and don't want to spend Porsche / Ferrari / Lamborghini money, the Mustang is the ideal alternative that does not compromise on the essential ingredients.
I agree entirely with what you've written. It's great that they've bought in this car and it's even better that they've bought it in at a nice price point. And as I said earlier, am also thrilled because I will get a chance to drive it. All of these are the good bits.

Now, it's not the number of Mustangs that would be sold or the margins that Ford would make that is an issue. Even if they could sell all the cars at a much higher price point or if they could sell more cars, it still wouldn't add enough to Ford's bottom line for them to sit up and take notice. And anyway I don't think they intended to make money by selling the Mustang either so they wouldn't be looking at the bottom line of the Mustang either.

It is a halo car and from that perspective points to a strategic initiative to improve the perception of Ford by potential customers.

While my earlier post indicated some points that could have worked better from a strategic perspective, the more serious indicators towards what would eventually be a serious mistake by Ford is Ford India's approach towards larger cars and the typical moves by large American corporations of which Ford is no exception.

Ford India, for some reason hasn't paid much attention to its larger cars - the Mondeo could have worked well if they positioned it properly, the new Fiesta could have been a fantastic car with just a 1.6 L engine, but all of that was too much of a management effort for Ford India. The Mustang will require substantially more effort from a management perspective for it to succeed and I don't think Ford India will be able to do this and Ford will not support Ford India beyond a certain point.

What you will probably see in a year or two, is a bunch of Mustang customers who have been left in the lurch by Ford because they would have decided to discontinue the Mustang. And during these two years you will also find these customers facing issues such as bad service, lack of spares / high cost of spares, lot of stranded cars and eventually a disgruntled set of very high profile customers who have been treated badly.

So the initiative to improve Fords brand equity through a halo car will eventually have the opposite effect of spoiling its brand equity even further.

A look at Ford India's jaundiced approach towards larger cars and an analysis of typical American corporation strategy will ensure that all of this pans out to be true.

Of course I hope it doesn't, but I'm sure it will.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th July 2016 at 08:36. Reason: Please quote selectively as a large quoted post causes inconvenience to our mobile readers, thanks
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Old 15th July 2016, 19:21   #401
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikram Arya View Post
This Ford Mustang V8 is designed to run on 87 Octane/91 RON which is regular gas.
That's what I am correcting in Suhaas's statement, The US Mustang GT is not designed to run on 87 Octane, its designed for running on 93 octane gas, which is premium gas in US; to get the quoted power & Torque numbers. It will run with 87 but will be running with less power & torque.
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Old 15th July 2016, 20:03   #402
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Official TVC has been released by Ford India.

Watch till the end to see a neat trick with the signboard.

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Old 16th July 2016, 17:45   #403
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

65 lakh ex showroom definitely is an awesome price as this includes 100%+ import duty. Also I have seen many people importing cars for their use and don't get any service support here. Also I feel a person who owns a Mustang will not waste his time in service center but send it across with a driver. So should not make much if a difference. In fact he should be happy to get a official legal import car.
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Old 19th July 2016, 10:11   #404
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Holy smokes! Check out the Mustang in black. Looks absolutely H-A-W-T!

Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs-2016fordmustanggtinindiablackandyellowfirstdrivereview.jpg

Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs-2016fordmustanggtinindiafrontfirstdrivereview.jpg

Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs-2016fordmustanggtinindiafrontthreequarterfirstdrivereview.jpg

Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs-2016fordmustanggtinindiasidefirstdrivereview.jpg

Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs-2016fordmustanggtinindiawheelfirstdrivereview.jpg

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Old 22nd July 2016, 14:28   #405
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Default Re: Ford Mustang coming to India. EDIT: Launched at 65 lakhs

Mustang feedback after 5 laps at BIC:

"...the car does roll a lot.

...after repeated hard use on the track there were signs of brake fade.

...after three to four laps, the cars engines would overheat and go into safe mode."

Source: ACI

Watch this space.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 22nd July 2016 at 14:36.
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