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Old 15th September 2013, 11:31   #16
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Default re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Here is an interesting trend for those who are interested.

The diesel-petrol sales split for 2013 so far:

Jan - 41845 : 10185 ~ 4 : 1

Feb - 13466 : 3900 ~ 3.5 : 1

Mar - 38714 : 8212 ~ 4.5 : 1

Apr - 40918 : 12025 ~ 3.5 : 1

May - 33846 : 11711 ~ 3 : 1

Jun - 49405 : 24197 ~ 2 : 1

Jul - 46675 : 22018 ~ 2 : 1

Aug - 66542 : 25314 ~ 2.5 : 1
Tried to compare fuel ratio with the vehicle ratio. These two ratios are matching. That means, the decision of Diesel Vs Petrol is based on the price difference of the fuel at that time. interesting.

(Fuel price from iocl site for Mumbai)
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Old 15th September 2013, 11:52   #17
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Default re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

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Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
A diesel engine is manufactured using better strengthened materials than a petrol engine, which tends to drive up costs. This is largely due the fact that a petrol engine undergoes combustion but a diesel engine undergoes "explosion".

Please let me know if you would like to know more about it.
Of course, yes, please do share more on the comparison between diesel and gasoline engines. There is a thread on torque of diesel vs gasoline engines, may be you could have a look and contribute there too.

Spike

PS- Does a Gasoline DI also "explode" ?
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Old 15th September 2013, 13:55   #18
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

An interesting discussion. If the current fuel pricing trend continues, petrol cars will become equally competent as a diesel powered car. Many reasons for this trend have already discussed here.

At some of time those who drive approx 500 KM/month used to prefer diesel vehicles. But now even those who are covering 800 KMs are opting for petrol cars. Also the availability of reliable petrol engine may be further accelerating the demand for petrol cars (eg Honda Amaze). One more point could be now a days the monthly average travel distance of new cars also may be coming down.
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Old 15th September 2013, 14:19   #19
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IMO there will always be a difference of about rs 20 between the 2 fuels.
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Old 15th September 2013, 15:02   #20
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
RSR,

Thanks for that! I've moved your post out into its own thread. Surely deserves an independent discussion
Thank you, GTO! The inspiration for this comes from the monthly diesel-petrol split figures provided by yourself and Parrys

If possible, you guys can add one more chart to the monthly sales thread with the ratio. This can be done by dividing the diesels sales by those of petrols and rounding it off to the nearest 0.5 - then by plotting this along the x-axis and the month along the y-axis. The x'-axis can have decreasing positive fractions, in case the petrols sales exceed those of diesels (which seems unlikely, but still) - I'll prepare one as an example and post it later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
While the data presented is interesting, this actually prevents us from knowing the overall Diesel : Petrol split. Would love to know those figures
Absolutely! This is just for cars that have both petrol and diesel engine options. The total diesel-petrol sales divide can be obtained by utilising the numbers of the petrol-only cars and the diesel-only cars for the ratio. I'll try to calculate the total split for one month and post it later.

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Originally Posted by Visran View Post
I guess the cars which run on dual fuel like LPG and CNG with a conventional petrol engine has also helped the cause for the recent popularity of petrol engined cars
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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
People might be considering more of petrol cars right now for two reasons... AT is available and also there is a choice of converting the petrol to CNG. Diesel cant be converted
Very true. The least expensive diesel AT car is the fluidic Hyundai Verna 1.6 CRDi EX and it costs more than one million rupees, ex-showroom. So those who want an AT within a budget of one million rupees have no choice but to go for a petrol.

And yes, petrol cars can always be converted into LPG and CNG bi-fuel vehicles even if they don't have factory-fitted kits. This can be done either by the dealer (retaining the vehicle warranty) or by an after-market specialist (voiding the warranty).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambadan View Post
Tried to compare fuel ratio with the vehicle ratio. These two ratios are matching. That means, the decision of Diesel Vs Petrol is based on the price difference of the fuel at that time. interesting.

(Fuel price from iocl site for Mumbai)
Excellent info! I too thought there must be some correlation between the two and your chart has confirmed this, thank you

Last edited by RSR : 15th September 2013 at 15:04.
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Old 15th September 2013, 15:17   #21
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
While the data presented is interesting, this actually prevents us from knowing the overall Diesel : Petrol split. Would love to know those figures
Valid point, the data is indeed limited.

However, do note that the number of petrol-only options (Alto, WagonR, Eon, i10, Omni etc.) blow away the diesel-only options in terms of sheer numbers.
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Old 15th September 2013, 15:58   #22
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Of course, yes, please do share more on the comparison between diesel and gasoline engines.
As most of us know, a modern internal-combustion engine produces power in 4 strokes:

1. Inlet stroke
2. Compression stroke
3. Power stroke
4. Exhaust stroke

Even though the order of strokes remain the same in both types of engines, due to the inherent properties of the fuel used (petrol/diesel), certain changes are made in their designs.

Petrol engine

Inlet - A measured quantity of air + fuel mix is sprayed inside the cylinder.

Compression - The mix is compressed.

Power - In this stroke, a spark is introduced into the cylinder. Now, consider the mix present in the cylinder to be in layers. Due to the inherent nature of petrol, the mix is burnt layer by layer; i.e the 1st layer, followed by the 2nd and so on. Hence, the combustion is somewhat controlled.

Example: Consider a wick used in candles & fireworks. When the head of the wick is ignited, it slowly burns through the stem and reaches the end point.
However, please note that since the entire process takes place within milliseconds, no discernible changes in power characteristics can ever be noticed by the driver.

Exhaust - The burnt mix is flushed out of the cylinder.


Diesel engine

Inlet - Only air is brought into the cylinder.

Compression - The air is compressed, thereby making it very hot.

Power - A measured quantity of diesel is sprayed inside the cylinder. Due to the already hot temperatures inside the cylinder, it automatically ignites. This self-ignition is a property of diesel fuel. However, it ignites as a whole and hence, the effect can be considered to be somewhat similar to an explosion.

Exhaust - The burnt mix is flushed out of the cylinder.
  • As a spark is needed to burn petrol, a petrol engine is generally called a Spark-ignition engine or SI engine.
  • Diesel, however ignites on its own due to its inherent properties, and thus, diesel engines are often compression-ignition or CI engines. That is why diesel engines do not use spark plugs as they are simply not needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
PS- Does a Gasoline DI also "explode" ?
AFAIK, the manner of injection of fuel has no role to play in the combustion process. All 3 types of injection (indirect, throttle-body and direct) have the same type of combustion depending upon the fuel used.

I hope I was able to clarify your doubt. Please feel free to ask me any more questions related to this topic.

Regards,
Mohit
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Old 15th September 2013, 16:07   #23
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Chidambaram has vowed to keep fiscal deficit at or under 4.8% and CAD at 3.7%. So far we seem to be on target. This plus around 5.5% GDP growth will make a decent show this fiscal.

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Eco...cle5061428.ece
Even though things look good now, It won't be so once the food security bill is implemented. They need to find a way to cover the expenditures there. Petroleum looks like the best bet.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...1200877_1.html
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Old 15th September 2013, 16:16   #24
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
People might be considering more of petrol cars right now for two reasons... AT is available and also there is a choice of converting the petrol to CNG. Diesel cant be converted
A bit of correction there,
I guess city buses in most of the states run on CNG nowadays. So does it mean that those are petrol engined. Diesels can surely be converted to CNG.
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Old 15th September 2013, 17:07   #25
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
People might be considering more of petrol cars right now for two reasons... AT is available and also there is a choice of converting the petrol to CNG. Diesel cant be converted
This has been true for the last couple of years. Why is it affecting the prices now? The timing seems to align more with the 0.5 rs/month increase in diesel prices.

Moves like this tends to affect consumer confidence in diesel cars since they only see their costs raising. Even though it would take ages for diesel to catch up to petrol, it is the signal it sends to the people.
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Old 15th September 2013, 17:24   #26
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

It is good to know that petrol cars are again coming up the ladder. Diesel engines are to say the least very damaging to the environment. They lead to higher CO2 emissions, higher NOX emissions a high soot percentage. I am glad that people are realising how much more problematic it is to own a diesel. High maintenance costs, higher noise and a less refined motor. The diesel subsidy might be helping the economy (read transport sector) heavily, but it is a definite no-no for the environment. It is a major reason for the rise in the Carbon footprint of India. Government should bring in new laws and subsidies to promote the sales of EV's like the Mahindra E20 and Hero Electric bikes. Setting up charging station would also help. Countries like Norway have more that 3% electric cars and has plenty charging stations set up across the country. What is astonishing is the fact that 100% of this electricity comes from Hydro power, therefore there is zero emission from these cars. Isn't that just amazing?
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Old 15th September 2013, 18:25   #27
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohitk1993 View Post
As most of us know, a modern internal-combustion engine produces power in 4 strokes:
Thanks Mohit for the explanation, power is "generated" only in the power stroke, one complete cycle consists of 4 strokes. The other three don't help much.

Quote:
AFAIK, the manner of injection of fuel has no role to play in the combustion process.
The manner (start time, duration of injection, quantity of injection etc) do play roles AFAIK.

Quote:
All 3 types of injection (indirect, throttle-body and direct) have the same type of combustion depending upon the fuel used.
Not really I think. Have you noticed the noise behavior of an IDI and a DI engine?

Quote:
I hope I was able to clarify your doubt. Please feel free to ask me any more questions related to this topic.
I still have some.

Spike
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Old 15th September 2013, 19:27   #28
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Thanks Mohit for the explanation, power is "generated" only in the power stroke, one complete cycle consists of 4 strokes. The other three don't help much.
If you typically go by the word "power", then yes; it is only produced in the 3rd stroke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
The manner (start time, duration of injection, quantity of injection etc) do play roles AFAIK.
Do they play a role in the manner of injection? Of course, they do. However, once the fuel is sprayed inside the cylinder, everything is the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Not really I think. Have you noticed the noise behavior of an IDI and a DI engine?
Theoretically, there can be no difference in the noise characteristics of DI and IDI engines. Any discernable changes that you may have noticed cannot be accounted due to the combustion process but due to some other factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
I still have some.
Feel free to shoot
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Old 15th September 2013, 20:14   #29
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Post Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Diesels were outselling petrols ~ 4.5:1 in March 2013. Then petrols slowly increased their sales performance and reduced the ratio to ~ 2:1 in both June and July. August saw the ratio again widen to 2.5:1 and with the latest pricing insanity, one can easily understand where this is heading again.
Absolutely! But I think petrol may never dominate diesel cars, at-least in our nation. The ratio will mostly tilt towards diesel cars in the coming month.

Well! Because the petrol price has been hiked.

The figures and news as seen here: http://www.thehindu.com/business/Eco...cle5124950.ece

Source: The Hindu

Off Topic: This seems to be the trend followed by our government. Whenever rupee falls; trend of our gov: increase petrol prices (because gov uses diesel vehicles and name petrol as premium product; they seem to forget every bike runs on petrol), increase onion prices, increase all other food prices (ya like all humans survive only on water and can survive like camels) and even then they do not find a solution increase Diesel price (eventually leading to inflation)
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Old 15th September 2013, 22:22   #30
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Default Re: Diesel:Petrol Car Sales Ratio. Major Shift in favour of Petrol Cars!

In the past many of my non-petrol head relatives, family friends.etc changed their cars. The majority of them were upgrades from small hatches like santro,wagon R.etc to Dzire,amaze,etios.etc and some to bigger hatches like swift,i20,polo.etc.
Upon asking them why they did not buy a diesel car/ a used sedan like the Honda city which all of them admire. In the current slow down of petrol cars market these sedans make great sense due to their low resale value. Majority of them did not use the car on regular basis. (maybe max 4-6k kms/year)
They give me the following answers-
1. The status issue
2. New car feel.
3. Diesel is a big no because maintenance is on higher side. The ones who regularly started using their cars for commute converted them to cng.
4. The price difference between petrol and diesel. (this was mainly for those who had a lot of running on monthly basis but still prefer cng+ petrol combo)
5. This is an extension of point 4. Those who had a less budget like 5lakhs were not left with any diesel options.
6. First time buyers with a lesser usage always prefer a small hatch.
Many were there who have also upgraded to bigger vehicles like duster,safari,laura and fortuners. I am not considering them here as they do not have a major market share.
All i have configured is the buyers less than 7.5lakhs have a major share of which only the ones who do a monthly runnnig of more than 1.5k kms and mainly on highways prefer diesels. Rest first time buyers, city users prefer either AT or petrol+cng/lpg combo. So here we are considering cars with both engine options which are basically above 6lakhs. But there is a stronger market below it too which when taken into consideration will show the real diference.
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