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Old 7th April 2014, 18:52   #31
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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We at team-bhp should be doing better than this repetitious bashing of this or that brand.
It is not bashing. I think what we all are trying to say is that they are more than welcome to launch an SUV that's going to cost upwards of 25 Lakhs. Just that they shouldn't be disappointed if it doesn't sell.

They need a reality check and will definitely get one once they start competing with the likes of Fortuner & Endeavour.

But we are all ready to be plesantly surprised if they do launch an SUV which is better than anything else available at ~25L, just that the odds of something like that happening are very very, very low!
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Old 7th April 2014, 19:05   #32
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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It is not bashing. I think what we all are trying to say is that they are more than welcome to launch an SUV that's going to cost upwards of 25 Lakhs. Just that they shouldn't be disappointed if it doesn't sell.

They need a reality check and will definitely get one once they start competing with the likes of Fortuner & Endeavour.

But we are all ready to be plesantly surprised if they do launch an SUV which is better than anything else available at ~25L, just that the odds of something like that happening are very very, very low!
Since I do not own or like SUVs: I have several very knowledgeable/experienced (and wealthy, so no sour grapes) friends and acquaintances who would point out that the Safari Storme at 10-12 lakhs is ALREADY at least the equal of, and along many parameters superior to the, to use perhaps too sarcastic language, glorified pick-up trucks available for 25 lakhs (Fortuner!). Can I point out that of the 25 lakhs too large a portion is going into taxes, and obscene profit mark-ups NOT into engineering, design, plastic quality or equipment (Fortuner!). Of course, each consumer is free to buy-into bloated brands, just do not denigrate tata's attempts to show them up!
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Old 7th April 2014, 19:36   #33
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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Since I do not own or like SUVs: I have several very knowledgeable/experienced (and wealthy, so no sour grapes) friends and acquaintances who would point out that the Safari Storme at 10-12 lakhs is ALREADY at least the equal of, and along many parameters superior to the, to use perhaps too sarcastic language, glorified pick-up trucks available for 25 lakhs (Fortuner!). Can I point out that of the 25 lakhs too large a portion is going into taxes, and obscene profit mark-ups NOT into engineering, design, plastic quality or equipment (Fortuner!). Of course, each consumer is free to buy-into bloated brands, just do not denigrate tata's attempts to show them up!
Its a shame that it still sells half the no. of units Fortuner does. Its a capable vehicle alright but if you say overall its better than the Fortuner, then that's saying too much!

But the upside of what you are saying is that if TATA makes a 25L SUV then we are in for a real treat because it'd be comparable to Q5, X3 etc. at half the price, that'd be really something!

I think TATA should lend their engineering and R&D team to JLR instead so that they can learn to produce better SUVs than Toyota at half the price.
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Old 7th April 2014, 20:17   #34
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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And: i do not and have never owned a Tata, though I know very many who have.
Well I have ! And have experienced the best and worst of TML product+sales+service. And let's say that its been a mixed bag (of experiences).

I'd want Tata to focus hard on their strengths (Ace, Magic and the small commercial segment) and milk whatever is good in their existing platforms like the Nano. Make money. Sell what (still) sells.

I wish them well, but when it comes to my hard-earned 25-30 L, I will stick to the Fortuner thank you
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Old 7th April 2014, 21:47   #35
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

If my dad was Shahpurji, I would bring the outgoing Defender (D90) to India tomorrow!

It is ready to be brought to the Indian market. No changes required.

Last edited by troublemaker : 7th April 2014 at 22:14.
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Old 7th April 2014, 22:07   #36
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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If my dad was Shahpurji, I would bring the outgoing Defender (D90) to India tomorrow!

It is ready to brought to the Indian market. No changes required.
Maybe that is precisely the '25 lakh' SUV being discussed in this thread!

The point is that if you adjust for Indian cost structures via localization, and customs duties a credible luxury Tata SUV is plausible. We know how advanced in Engineering and Design and off-road ability the current 25 lakh SUVs are, and how far removed from their pick-up truck origins too! (sarcasm )
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Old 7th April 2014, 22:19   #37
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

Tata showcased Tata Nexon. So a 5 Seater SUV is defenitely in the plans. But rest are all speculation. 25 Lakhs, may be too much. I doubt TM will go for another Ladder Frame chassis based SUV, while the need of the hour is a Sedan based crossover.
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Old 7th April 2014, 22:49   #38
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

Tata, please exit car manufacturing business while still there is some pride ( whatever little, that is ) is left. Tata brand is reduced to a joker of the pack. Like Trabant of Eastern Europe in 70s. Their market share is shrinking day by day. Wonder if they are even selling 3,000 cars per month, all models put together. Indica/Sumo are a finished brand. Aria crashed on runway before it could lift off. Safari, despite being bigger in all three dimensions to Scorpio and also being more powerfull (Storme), sells probably 10 per cent of what Scorpio sells, despite being priced similarly. Very very tragic and unfotunate. With newer cars around the block, things will only get worse. Please close down shop. Focus on Steel business, TCS or whatever. cars are not your cup of tea.
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Old 7th April 2014, 23:12   #39
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Tata, please exit car manufacturing business while still there is some pride ( whatever little, that is ) is left. Tata brand is reduced to a joker of the pack. Like Trabant of Eastern Europe in 70s. Their market share is shrinking day by day. Wonder if they are even selling 3,000 cars per month, all models put together. Indica/Sumo are a finished brand. Aria crashed on runway before it could lift off. Safari, despite being bigger in all three dimensions to Scorpio and also being more powerfull (Storme), sells probably 10 per cent of what Scorpio sells, despite being priced similarly. Very very tragic and unfotunate. With newer cars around the block, things will only get worse. Please close down shop. Focus on Steel business, TCS or whatever. cars are not your cup of tea.
Mind your prejudice sir! It is not clear what your own knowledge and opinion of say the Storme or the Vista or the Sumo is. You seem to only be reproducing what you incorrectly take to be the market's sales figure judgment: Tata sold over 12 thousand, six hundred passenger vehicles in March 2014. More than four times your estimate. In other words your anti-Tata prejudice is 4X. Of course, you are not the only one on team-bhp to harbour such contempt for Tata. If only one found enough deployment of this discerning skepticism/cynicism when it came to the dominant Japanese and Korean brands.

Last edited by desdemona : 7th April 2014 at 23:15. Reason: grammar
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Old 8th April 2014, 03:03   #40
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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Wonder if they are even selling 3,000 cars per month, all models put together.
Sir! have not you seen the Monthly sales figures posted in TBhp or other news media? Showing your displeasure to TM is acceptable, but making such false statements is totally misleading and unacceptable.
Quote:
Sales of passenger vehicles for March 2014 were at 12,640 nos. Sales of the Nano/ Indica/ Indigo range in March 2014 were 9,761 nos. The Sumo/ Safari/ Aria/ Venture range sales were 2,879 nos. Cumulative sales of passenger vehicles were 138,455 nos. Cumulative sales of the Nano/ Indica/ Indigo range were at 107,187 nos. Cumulative sales of the Sumo/Safari/ Aria/ Venture range were 31,268 nos.
http://mediacentre.tatamotors.com/Pr...d=849&val=2014
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Old 8th April 2014, 10:35   #41
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Tata, please exit car manufacturing business while still there is some pride ( whatever little, that is ) is left. Tata brand is reduced to a joker of the pack. Like Trabant of Eastern Europe in 70s. Their market share is shrinking day by day. Wonder if they are even selling 3,000 cars per month, all models put together. Indica/Sumo are a finished brand. Aria crashed on runway before it could lift off. Safari, despite being bigger in all three dimensions to Scorpio and also being more powerfull (Storme), sells probably 10 per cent of what Scorpio sells, despite being priced similarly. Very very tragic and unfotunate. With newer cars around the block, things will only get worse. Please close down shop. Focus on Steel business, TCS or whatever. cars are not your cup of tea.
This is outright silly. I hope you have just had an outburst and will be fair enough to tone down this skepticism. Every car brand in the world worth its salt has had its share of mistakes and difficult years. What matters is how they react to the state they are in. Its TATA, they know how to tough it out.
We can already see a major improvement in the newer vehicles. Its understandable that many will bash them at this point but lets keep it fair and truthful especially on Team BHP where monthly sales are followed so keenly.
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Old 8th April 2014, 13:22   #42
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

Wow! I didn't expect to draw so much flak for putting down this brand. But I used to draw much much more flak for sticking up for this brand once. Yes, I used to be a die-hard fan of Tata cars ( actually more out of reverence for Tatas than for their cars ) once. Used to argue vehemently with friends in support of Indica/ Safari. They even called me unpaid advocate for Tata Motors. No, I haven't turned anti-Tata or something overnight. Just that I would rather see them not making cars at all than making cars and being laughed at and ridiculed. I just adore this brand and I don't want to see this brand being butt of all jokes which it right now is. Because, no matter how much Tata improves, people look at their cars through blinnkered vision. I wonder why. See for yourself. Indica is called a taxi. By same logic, can I call Innova an airport taxi? Because I see more Innova taxis than Indica taxis. The press has been anti-Tata cars since year 2000. 14 years on, press still delivers same verdict although today's Indica and Safari are lightyears ahead of the ones of year 2000. I'm sure Tata does not know the art of "fixing the press". So, Tata cars will continue to remain butt of all jokes. Brand new German cars are breaking down. We all know how "reliable" Skoda is. We all heard of recalls by Honda/Toyota. And yet, it is Tata and Tata alone which is sneered at. It is in this context that I want them to exit car market. In my opinion, it will do more good to brand Tata.
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Old 8th April 2014, 13:35   #43
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

Tata's should play to win, not just to be in the field. Hyundai, with its level of sales and profitability, can afford a prestige albeit low-volume model like Santa Fe. TML does not have that luxury. LR inputs is great, what is need a "Thar killer" in the 8-12 L bracket, Complete with front-facing rear bench, ABS and a "better jeep per jeep" to rehash the ad-line. 25L and above? Good for ego, not necessarily good for business I'm afraid.
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Old 8th April 2014, 18:38   #44
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Default Freelander Platform To Be Used By Tata

As per info coming in from Autocar UK:

- Freelander's tooling will be shipped to India and its L359 platform used to underpin a new Tata SUV

- Around half of the current Freelander is set to be changed for the Tata SUV, and the new model will be built to meet Jaguar Land Roverís quality standards

- The new SUV is codenamed Q5. It is set to be a five-seater with a seven-seat option, and be priced at around £20,000. (Rs 20 lacs)

The Freelander is an excellent tried and tested vehicle. Using the platform is a brilliant idea and Tata should make major savings on cost rather than develop and test a whole new platform. Also they get a reliable vehicle from the start.

The present Freelander will be replaced by the all new junior Dicovery which will be launched next week in the NY Auto show.

Source: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/sc...et-become-tata
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Old 8th April 2014, 21:01   #45
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Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors planning 2 SUVs with Land Rover inputs

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Wow! I didn't expect to draw so much flak for putting down this brand. But I used to draw much much more flak for sticking up for this brand once. Yes, I used to be a die-hard fan of Tata cars ( actually more out of reverence for Tatas than for their cars ) once. Used to argue vehemently with friends in support of Indica/ Safari. They even called me unpaid advocate for Tata Motors. No, I haven't turned anti-Tata or something overnight. Just that I would rather see them not making cars at all than making cars and being laughed at and ridiculed. I just adore this brand and I don't want to see this brand being butt of all jokes which it right now is. Because, no matter how much Tata improves, people look at their cars through blinnkered vision. I wonder why. See for yourself. Indica is called a taxi. By same logic, can I call Innova an airport taxi? Because I see more Innova taxis than Indica taxis. The press has been anti-Tata cars since year 2000. 14 years on, press still delivers same verdict although today's Indica and Safari are lightyears ahead of the ones of year 2000. I'm sure Tata does not know the art of "fixing the press". So, Tata cars will continue to remain butt of all jokes. Brand new German cars are breaking down. We all know how "reliable" Skoda is. We all heard of recalls by Honda/Toyota. And yet, it is Tata and Tata alone which is sneered at. It is in this context that I want them to exit car market. In my opinion, it will do more good to brand Tata.
Hi. The point is that tata is not the "butt of all jokes" for the over 12500 who bought their cars last month. Nor are they being ridiculed for the Zest, Bolt and Nexon shown at the autoexpo. Moreover you will agree that car culture in India is very ignorant, inexperienced, immature and suffers from severe herding effects. That makes it the toughest car market in the world to succeed in, as GM, fiat, Skoda, VW, Ford, Nissan etc have discovered.

Tata motors can easily afford to hang in there in this difficult (phase of the) market even at the expense to low ROI because of the epic profits in foreign currency they are making off Jaguar-Land Rover.

They've performed a historic role in this market (diesel hatchbacks, CS sedan, spacious diesel sedan at cutprice, cutprice good SUV, the Nano). They've been overtaken slightly by market conditions, that's all. The auto business is pretty cyclical, isn't it?

I believe they still have the engineering+design ability and cash to show up the global (esp japanese and korean) marques, at least in some segments like SUVs, MUVs, CS sedans, and small hatchbacks.
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