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Old 28th September 2013, 00:03   #46
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post
Me too. I am so ready to sell off my city and get the Vento DSG but the fact that a facelift vento is due next year is making me think twice. The new City due early next year doesnt make like easier either.
I do not expect the City to have the same technology and we are most likely going to get a slightly update VTEC engine with a conventional auto box. The new CRV doesnt get a turbocharged engine nor does it get a DSG.
Quite a tricky situation. Well the facelift Vento would be launched somewhere around May-June 2014. What's there in the facelift? Not much except the engine downsizing from 1600 cc to 1500 cc in diesel to avail excise/tax duty cut and some here and there visual differences. Mostly nothing much. You could surely pick up new Vento 1.2 TSi knowing engine gonna be same and visual difference aren't much.

New Honda City would only remain NA engine coupled with a conventional AT transmission. Also the fun you would get in Vento TSi or even TDi will never be matched by Honda City.
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Old 28th September 2013, 02:03   #47
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post
Me too. I am so ready to sell off my city and get the Vento DSG but the fact that a facelift vento is due next year is making me think twice. The new City due early next year doesnt make like easier either.
I do not expect the City to have the same technology and we are most likely going to get a slightly update VTEC engine with a conventional auto box. The new CRV doesnt get a turbocharged engine nor does it get a DSG.
From all indications the new City will arrive sooner than everyone expects, possibly end of this year. it's supposed to be longer and wider than the current model, which would make it one of the biggest in the segment. It'll have Honda's new Earth Dreams engines (diesel and petrol), with the petrol one being a direct injection unit albeit with no turbo. Honda also announced new CVT transmissions for its new engines. So I'm hopeful we'll see a new powertrain in the car. All this makes me willing to wait.

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Quite a tricky situation. Well the facelift Vento would be launched somewhere around May-June 2014. What's there in the facelift? Not much except the engine downsizing from 1600 cc to 1500 cc in diesel to avail excise/tax duty cut and some here and there visual differences. Mostly nothing much. You could surely pick up new Vento 1.2 TSi knowing engine gonna be same and visual difference aren't much.

New Honda City would only remain NA engine coupled with a conventional AT transmission. Also the fun you would get in Vento TSi or even TDi will never be matched by Honda City.
I agree that the Vento facelift won't be much.

The Vento TSI may be more exciting than the City but the bullet-proof reliability of a Honda is something VW may not be able to match - my personal opinion. One reason the Japs don't adopt new tech fast is because they want to be sure of its reliability. Which is why its rare to hear of failures such as the DSG one with the Japs. New tech = expensive repairs/high chance of failure for early adopters. Simpler tech = cheaper repairs/higher reliability.
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Old 28th September 2013, 02:17   #48
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One more huge difference betwen the EA111 & EA211 1.2TSI motors I forgot to mention. 111 is sohc with 2 valve per cylinder, while the EA211 is DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder. Will they ever launch the polo/vento with this new engine? Simple answer, NO. Not till the mk7 Polo which is expected to be also based on the MQB platform. The 211 motor cant fit in the current chassis.
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Old 28th September 2013, 06:31   #49
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

Way to go VW! Let our market be flooded with turbo charged petrol engines. This Vento will save 3% excise duty as well compared to the existing AT.

Next, the GT TSI with manual. Wishful thinking is it?
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Old 28th September 2013, 09:07   #50
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

Out of curiosity while waiting for my Polo Tsi, I called up 2 dealers in BLR.

Dealer1: it's is only rumor Sir, we don't have any information from VW.
Dealer2: yes Sir it's coming, since there is long waiting list for Polo we expect if you book after launch, you will get in 8 months.

At least the 2nd answer is more realistic, let the waiting games commence.

Personally, I prefer the hatch.
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Old 28th September 2013, 10:34   #51
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

Will the normally aspirated 1.6 Liter petrol be discontinued, in that case ? I think VW is trying the FIAT INDIA's way, ploncking smaller displacement motors and turbo charging them in the interest of a better mileage and gaining advantage the technology.

My friend who owns a 1.6 petrol vento is trying to sell his car since last 6 months but in vain. I feel there is no value for that motor with the 1.6 tdi and 1.2tsi ruling the roads. Any specific reason what will be the gain for VW iindia by bringing in a similar powered lower displacement motor? is it only from the miles/gallon perspective ?

If at all the Vento GT TSI is launched, it will give a still competition to the Linea TJET and the City iVTEC, but can it outperform both with it's automatic transmission ?

Last edited by sriramr9 : 28th September 2013 at 10:37.
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Old 28th September 2013, 12:59   #52
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
1.4 TSI won't happen. They can't have their entry-level and mid-range sedans sporting the same power-plant.

1.2 TSI should be more than enough, and I think they'll use the driveability factor (combined with the DSG) as the car's USP, not outright power.
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Originally Posted by rahulsharma2008 View Post
I hope Chetan_Rao has already answered your question 1100D

Product overlap you see.
I for one am still hoping for a 1.4l engine. VW/Skoda have shown that they arent afraid of using the same engines across segments( For ex, the laura and superb share the same diesel and petrol engines).

IMO, if they have decided to go in for more expensive turbo charged engines, it would make more sense to go for the 1.4l engine, as the cost difference between a 1.2l and 1.4l turbo charged engine is not much given that they use the same technology. The 1.4l engine mated with the DSG would give them clear superiority over the entire competition in every aspect.
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Old 28th September 2013, 19:11   #53
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by King_K View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but I'm guessing that the new engine is coming only for the AT.

My Vento petrol is waiting for me to take a delivery on 6th of Oct. Am I buying an already-obsolete model!?
I'd suggest waiting. This 1.2L TSI is the global replacement of the old 1.6 N/A petrol. Only a matter of time before its phased out in all the VAG cars sold in India.
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Old 28th September 2013, 23:36   #54
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by sriramr9 View Post
Will the normally aspirated 1.6 Liter petrol be discontinued, in that case ? I think VW is trying the FIAT INDIA's way, ploncking smaller displacement motors and turbo charging them in the interest of a better mileage and gaining advantage the technology.

My friend who owns a 1.6 petrol vento is trying to sell his car since last 6 months but in vain. I feel there is no value for that motor with the 1.6 tdi and 1.2tsi ruling the roads. Any specific reason what will be the gain for VW iindia by bringing in a similar powered lower displacement motor? is it only from the miles/gallon perspective ?

If at all the Vento GT TSI is launched, it will give a still competition to the Linea TJET and the City iVTEC, but can it outperform both with it's automatic transmission ?
As GTO said, this 1.2 TSI mill succeeds the old Naturally Aspirated 1.6L engine doing duty in the current Vento.

And as far as your question of using a less displacement motor is concerned, you yourself have answered the question. Yes, you're right! It can be viewed in interest of fuel efficiency. Moreover, since the 1.6 L motor will be discontinued all over, it won't be much financially feasible to manufacture the old powerplant here. VW has a reputation of weak petrol engines in Polo and Vento, so they're trying to shed this image by introducing new, turbocharged engines. And this is with the much-famed and superb DSG gearbox.

Honestly, if I had the cash to plonk on a C2-segmenter petrol auto, it would be Vento DSG, without doubt! It makes the CVT's, torque converter's look ancient in comparison and is easily superior to them!

Keep revvin'
S@ndy

Last edited by S@ndy : 28th September 2013 at 23:39.
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Old 29th September 2013, 01:01   #55
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by apurva512 View Post
I for one am still hoping for a 1.4l engine. VW/Skoda have shown that they arent afraid of using the same engines across segments( For ex, the laura and superb share the same diesel and petrol engines).

IMO, if they have decided to go in for more expensive turbo charged engines, it would make more sense to go for the 1.4l engine, as the cost difference between a 1.2l and 1.4l turbo charged engine is not much given that they use the same technology. The 1.4l engine mated with the DSG would give them clear superiority over the entire competition in every aspect.


Infact VW seems to be following a trend of introducing a particular petrol engine in the Jetta first (1.6L Petrol) and then using the same block in its lower segment cars. So going by that a 1.4 Tsi shouldn't have been a surprise add on to the Vento.

IMO what would or could have also been a valid move would be to phase out the 1.4L Tsi motor from the Jetta and launch that with the current gen Vento. The Vento anyways even if shortened (long term strategy, if any??) to under 4m would fall under the lower excise bracket with its engine being below 1500cc. In this way what VW can achieve, is a C segment car with an engine competent enough to match and even out perform some of its closest rivals while at the same time giving the Indian mass audience the satisfaction of a higher displacement unit than a 1.2L (which actually is competent enough). The 1.2L with DSG could be the one to replace the 6 speed A/t whereas the manual version could have been offered with the 1.4Tsi.

While at it, VW may introduce the more powerful (Octavia spec) 1.8L TSi motor when they refresh the Jetta in the coming months and offer that with a manual to give it a clear distinguishing factor from the upcoming Octavia (available only in auto with this motor). Having done this the Jetta will yet have an equal if not upper hand over its Czech counterpart with respect to the powerplant of the car and a fair chance to survive the damage the Octavia is expected to cause its sales figures. This strategy IMO would clearly justify the positioning of the VW Jetta as a more premium choice over the Laura and Octavia.

I would love fellow team-bhpians' views on this.
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Old 29th September 2013, 09:46   #56
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post


The Vento anyways even if shortened (long term strategy, if any??) to under 4m would fall under the lower excise bracket with its engine being below 1500cc. In this way what VW can achieve, is a C segment car with an engine competent enough to match and even out perform some of its closest rivals while at the same time giving the Indian mass audience the satisfaction of a higher displacement unit than a 1.2L (which actually is competent enough).
A shortened Vento, even if it is below 4 meters, cannot enjoy the lowest excise slab if it has the 1.4 TSI engine. Petrol car engines have to be below 1.2L to qualify for the lower excise slab. So, if the long term startegy is to introduce a Vento variant below 4m, and if VW wants to minimize the number of engine combinations across the Polo/Vento range made in Chakhan, they would have to go for the 1.2L TSI for the Vento. This way, they will end up in the end-state with 2 engines - 1.2 TSI Petrol and 1.5 TDI for Diesel (the new India specific version of 1.6 TDI). They could offer each engine in two different states of tune to produce 10 different car+power-plant combinations - 4 each of Polo and Vento (Base Petrol, Base Diesel, GT Petrol, GT Diesel) and a "Vento Compact" with Petrol and Diesel options. This is of course assuming, they phase out the base 1.2L NA Petrol engine in the base Polo of today.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 29th September 2013 at 09:48.
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Old 29th September 2013, 15:02   #57
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

It's great that we have so many fun petrol automatics to choose from.

Not too long ago, I was in the market for a fun petrol automatic, and I had the devil's own time finding one that was suitable. The ones available were either too slow, handled badly, didn't have adequate safety features or were too expensive, for what they were.

I hope this trend continues, and, if it does, in a couple of years we'll be spoiled for choice in the fun + convenience department.
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Old 29th September 2013, 16:20   #58
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by S2!!! View Post


Infact VW seems to be following a trend of introducing a particular petrol engine in the Jetta first (1.6L Petrol) and then using the same block in its lower segment cars. So going by that a 1.4 Tsi shouldn't have been a surprise add on to the Vento.

IMO what would or could have also been a valid move would be to phase out the 1.4L Tsi motor from the Jetta and launch that with the current gen Vento. The Vento anyways even if shortened (long term strategy, if any??) to under 4m would fall under the lower excise bracket with its engine being below 1500cc. In this way what VW can achieve, is a C segment car with an engine competent enough to match and even out perform some of its closest rivals while at the same time giving the Indian mass audience the satisfaction of a higher displacement unit than a 1.2L (which actually is competent enough). The 1.2L with DSG could be the one to replace the 6 speed A/t whereas the manual version could have been offered with the 1.4Tsi.

While at it, VW may introduce the more powerful (Octavia spec) 1.8L TSi motor when they refresh the Jetta in the coming months and offer that with a manual to give it a clear distinguishing factor from the upcoming Octavia (available only in auto with this motor). Having done this the Jetta will yet have an equal if not upper hand over its Czech counterpart with respect to the powerplant of the car and a fair chance to survive the damage the Octavia is expected to cause its sales figures. This strategy IMO would clearly justify the positioning of the VW Jetta as a more premium choice over the Laura and Octavia.

I would love fellow team-bhpians' views on this.
I'd like to correct you here. The excise duty reduction is for petrols below the 1.2 L displacement, which the 1.2 TSI is. Using 1.4 TSI isn't only going to push costs up higher but it will also lead to cannibalisation between Jetta and Vento. Jetta is already at a disadvantage due to it's Vento-esque face. So, I feel they shouldn't launch 1.4 TSI in Vento, unless it's a special edition. VW wants to differentiate amongst the two, so 1.4 TSI remains elusive to Jetta. And, if they launch 1.8 TSI in Jetta, Octy would be at a loss. Remember, VW also earn cash for every Audi and Skoda sold. Instead, if they want to push Jetta upmarket, they should give it more features and plonk 1.8 TSI in it while giving Octy the 1.4 TSI engine. Meanwhile, Audi is currently the top-dog in luxury segment while it uses less-powered engines than VW and Skoda. Man, this is sibling-rivalry at it's best!

Keep revvin'
S@ndy

Last edited by S@ndy : 29th September 2013 at 16:22.
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Old 29th September 2013, 22:00   #59
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Default Re: VW Vento GT TSI to launch on 3rd October 2013

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
A shortened Vento, even if it is below 4 meters, cannot enjoy the lowest excise slab if it has the 1.4 TSI engine. Petrol car engines have to be below 1.2L to qualify for the lower excise slab.
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I'd like to correct you here. The excise duty reduction is for petrols below the 1.2 L displacement, which the 1.2 TSI is.
Thanks for the correction. Got confused between the diesel and petrol slabs. So going by the logic, it all the more makes sense to introduce the 1.4 Tsi for the normal sized Vento and a 1.2 Tsi for the compact Vento (if any). In this way not only can the current Vento be pushed to be a more premium offering while being sold along side a shortened car with the engine being a clear differentiating factor between the two apart from the length.

The refreshed Jetta on the other hand with a discontinued 1.4Tsi replaced by a 1.8Tsi could pushed much higher than the Vento (price wise) so there is no cannibalization and also would be perceived as a more upmarket offering than the Octavia which may continue to sell the 1.4Tsi along with only 1 variant of the 1.8Tsi + DSG.
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Old 30th September 2013, 00:01   #60
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Well IMO, an under 4 meter compact Vento doesn't make any sense at all. The existing Polo at 3970mm is already within kissing distance of 4 meter. VW will end up spoiling the beauty of Vento's design if they choose to do so. Better stick with two offerings: A competent hatchback and a full sized sedan. And then there're rumors about launch of UP for the price sensitive ones and Taigun for compact SUV loving public. This will complete VW's offerings across the spectrum in Indian market right from entry level hatchback, premium hatchback, compact SUV, proper entry level sedan and premium sedans.
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