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Old 1st October 2007, 12:51   #1486
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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
GV is sold for ~20,000 USD (what Rs. 9.5 lacks?), just the CBU thing makes it expensive by another 6 lacks (taxes, taxes, taxes)...the point is if Tatas are crying that Safari will become way too expensive if they want to make it true 4x4 and with high quality, just slap them. We know Suzuki makes it under 10 lacks (without special import and road taxes for CBUs).
Ditto... this is what I have been trying to say all along. They can surely provide atleast decent quality at the same price... what they lack is the will to do it. When it is selling as it, why make the change and this is a contrast with a company who wants to be a global player.
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:54   #1487
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Its the same old alloys & tyres
The one which i saw today had tubeless bridgestone duellers EX. alas coudnt testdrive it as i was short of time

All I can say about initial views of this was.. Mind boggling characteristics of this new beast. Its really a good VFM package.

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 1st October 2007 at 13:11. Reason: Corrections
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:57   #1488
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why dont u people look in the positive side too? tata could have easily continued with the 3.0 and launched this engine in the new platform which is slated to come..

fyi the 3.0 does sell well here in the south..
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Old 1st October 2007, 13:10   #1489
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Perhaps they will give alloys atleast, as part of the discounts to boost up their lost sales. (as I read in some previous post). Hope so.

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Originally Posted by kdeepakk View Post
Its the same old alloys & tyres
They want to test the 2.2l engine out, since it will be used in their new SUV platform slated later in the 2008.

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Originally Posted by aadix View Post
why dont u people look in the positive side too? tata could have easily continued with the 3.0 and launched this engine in the new platform which is slated to come..

fyi the 3.0 does sell well here in the south..

Last edited by dadu : 1st October 2007 at 13:12.
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Old 1st October 2007, 13:24   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
GV is sold for ~20,000 USD (what Rs. 9.5 lacks?), just the CBU thing makes it expensive by another 6 lacks (taxes, taxes, taxes)...the point is if Tatas are crying that Safari will become way too expensive if they want to make it true 4x4 and with high quality, just slap them. We know Suzuki makes it under 10 lacks (without special import and road taxes for CBUs).
Using the same logic, if you discount 45% Excise Duties, 15% Sales Tax and others, I guess the Tata is making the Safari for less than 5 lakhs (what they get out of it, I mean). Go ahead and slap them.
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Old 1st October 2007, 13:41   #1491
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Using the same logic, if you discount 45% Excise Duties, 15% Sales Tax and others, ..
Excise duty on cars is 24% ( excluding small cars , charged @ 16% ) and this excise duty is cenvatable. ( that is the excise duty telco has to pay against each car is offset against excise duties already paid on aggregates supplied by vendors, used in making the car ). This is to ensure that there is no cascading of duties / taxes. True for all manufacturers.

No manufacturers actually pays the 24% excise duty on the final product. And the prices declared to excise department is much lower than the Showroom price of the product., to save further on duties.

Sales tax is specific to location where it is sold and is not part of ex showroom price of the car.

Last edited by w 12 : 1st October 2007 at 13:49.
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:02   #1492
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Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
Excise duty on cars is 24% ( excluding small cars , charged @ 16% ) and this excise duty is cenvatable. ( that is the excise duty telco has to pay against each car is offset against excise duties already paid on aggregates supplied by vendors, used in making the car ). This is to ensure that there is no cascading of duties / taxes. True for all manufacturers.

No manufacturers actually pays the 24% excise duty on the final product. And the prices declared to excise department is much lower than the Showroom price of the product., to save further on duties.

Sales tax is specific to location where it is sold and is not part of ex showroom price of the car.
Would be interesting to know HOW much of the money we pay actually end up with the manufacturers. Is there a fixed formula we can use?
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:11   #1493
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Cool And Finally The Much Awaited

103KW@4000RPM /84.5kw @ 3000 rpm
320NM@1700-2700RPM / 300nm @1800~2400
GEAR RATIOS
  1. 4.10 /3.87 first gear and i think rest all are the same
[*]CLUTCH SINGLE DRY SAME AS OLDER ONE ALBEIT VERY VAGUELY SOFT[*]ALTERNATOR RATING 125 AMPS[*]GROUND CLEARANCE 205MM / 195mm laden[*]GRADEIBILITY
  1. 4*4 76% /60%
  2. 4*2 50% /35%
[*]WEIGHT 4*4 2170KG/ 2225kg[*]NEW EXHAUST[*]NEW SEDIMENTER[*]STRENGHTED ANTIROLL BAR IN THE REAR WITH ROLLER TAPES 4 IN NO.[*]REAR WHEEL COVER LIKE THE OLDER MODEL SAFARI, BELT IS GONE AND REPLACED WITH VINYL INTERNAL HOLDING WITH ZIPPER CHAIN[*]THE BEST PART
Service @ 15000kms VIZ every 10,000 OIL AND 5000KM SERVICE

Note: Bolder are 3.0 readings
Very good NVH characteristics
What say guys.. Isnt this Cute

Last edited by Rahulk76 : 1st October 2007 at 14:23.
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:12   #1494
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Would be interesting to know HOW much of the money we pay actually end up with the manufacturers. Is there a fixed formula we can use?
I guess we would know the price soon considering that it is going to be launched on 4th Oct 2007. Thats just 3 more days from now

Source: :: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE ::
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:13   #1495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
Excise duty on cars is 24% ( excluding small cars , charged @ 16% ) and this excise duty is cenvatable. ( that is the excise duty telco has to pay against each car is offset against excise duties already paid on aggregates supplied by vendors, used in making the car ). This is to ensure that there is no cascading of duties / taxes. True for all manufacturers.

No manufacturers actually pays the 24% excise duty on the final product. And the prices declared to excise department is much lower than the Showroom price of the product., to save further on duties.

Sales tax is specific to location where it is sold and is not part of ex showroom price of the car.
This being the case, almost all the manufacturers are making a fortune selling their cars in India. I dunno why they are always cribbing about price though as if the margins are wafer thin?
This also explains how company's are able to sustain themselves, even with low sales simply because the profilt they earn per product is very high.
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:24   #1496
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Thanks Rahul. As discussed, the major differences are obviously in the output figures (bhp and torque), but the other diff seem:

1. Different 1st gear but all other gear ratios remain the same. (Does this explain DrK's difficulty with 1st gear?)

2. Better gradeability - 75% v/s 60% on 4L and 50% v/s 35% on 4H.

3. Increase GC - 205mm laden v/s 195 mm laden (please note all Safari GC figures are LADEN).

4. 55kg lighter on 4wd (engine weight? - thats all the savings are?)

and

5. Service intervals are now 15k kms in place of 10k.
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Old 1st October 2007, 14:27   #1497
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Default There is no Sales tax now at state level

Sales tax has been replaced by VAT at state level. only CST remains. that too i think @4%. wheather it is applicable to cars or not i do not know.
maximum VAT on any goods is 12.5% with two more slabs being 4% and 8%
Ex showroom price includes everything . only insurance, road tax, extended warranty( if applicable) and handling charges are extra.

if i remember correctly only TATA motors reduced the prices after VAT was introduced by states. no other manufacturer did it ( this was as per paper ads issued by TATA motors stating that they are reducing the prices by X amount per model due to VAT)
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Old 1st October 2007, 17:20   #1498
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Using the same logic, if you discount 45% Excise Duties, 15% Sales Tax and others, I guess the Tata is making the Safari for less than 5 lakhs (what they get out of it, I mean). Go ahead and slap them.

The 20000 USD includes US taxes (No country is tax free).
Take those out too and you will see that Suzuki is extremely cost efficient. BTW, Suzuki GV is an 100% import into US from japan and the cost is of 2.7 L V6. The 1.9 DDis one sold in Europ is also similarly priced.

And I have already slapped Tata after the horrible TD they gave me.
They don't care...

Rahul,

Many thanks for the 2.2 specs and for sending the PM. I was about to write to you to check if you are going to take the 2.2 TD. It would be a lot more fun to take it together than alone.

Thanks.
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Old 1st October 2007, 17:27   #1499
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Ditto... this is what I have been trying to say all along. They can surely provide atleast decent quality at the same price... what they lack is the will to do it. When it is selling as it, why make the change and this is a contrast with a company who wants to be a global player.
Absolutely.

And not to mention the GV has absolutely no rattle. Built like a tank. The rear door opens in a slow motion thanks to the pneumatic hinge. Glow boxes also exibit a slow motion opening - will not hit you on your knees even if they are loaded with a lot of stuff.

OK. Suzuki is a global player so Tata may not be able to even imagine giving all this, but at least DO NOT RATTLE.
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Old 1st October 2007, 17:35   #1500
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I guess this thread is about the 2.2 ltr and not about the how bad are Tata products (in general) and the existing 3 ltr Dicor (specifically). Please can we stick to the topic.
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