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Old 20th September 2007, 22:37   #1171
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Will the new Safari be a monocoque?
That would be a pity. SUV + Monocoque = Soft Roader. Plus, I'm sure it will lose its biggest advantage which is the fantastic ride over any road.

If that be the case I hope they continue the body-on-frame separately.
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Old 20th September 2007, 23:58   #1172
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The X2 platform is innovaish, and most probably its monoque. Don't know for sure though.
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Old 21st September 2007, 00:55   #1173
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Originally Posted by khader_bhai
That would be a pity. SUV + Monocoque = Soft Roader. Plus, I'm sure it will lose its biggest advantage which is the fantastic ride over any road.
Range Rover is a monocoque. Its definitely not a soft-roader.
But, I don't know about the ride quality.

Is there a reason why monocoques' ride quality go bad? Is it the stiffer chassis?
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Old 21st September 2007, 00:59   #1174
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Is there a reason why monocoques' ride quality go bad? Is it the stiffer chassis?
Khader Bhai (whoever that may be) didnt say that monocoque = bad ride quality.

He said that the Safari currently has superb ride quality over any road - shifting from current chassis to mono would obviously mean a complete change in suspension aggregates and stuff. It would be good to retain the ride, but I doubt if you can get the best of everything.
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Old 21st September 2007, 01:16   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post

Is there a reason why monocoques' ride quality go bad? Is it the stiffer chassis?
Body on frame has 2 layers of isolation. frame to road via suspension and then additionally the body is rubber mounted to the frame. But this leads to the wishy washy road feel which you dont see in monocoque.
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Old 21st September 2007, 07:26   #1176
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Unhappy Testing......

First off, I would like to congratulate all the people who have already booked(or in the process) the new 2.2ltr variant.

However, going by the Tata rules/guidelines, most of the road tests are conducted on customer cars and not in test tracks.

I believe, if a new TATA vehicle is launched, one shud wait atleast 4-6 months before booking one.

What do you say ppl?
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Old 21st September 2007, 07:37   #1177
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Originally Posted by hocuspocus View Post
First off, I would like to congratulate all the people who have already booked(or in the process) the new 2.2ltr variant.

However, going by the Tata rules/guidelines, most of the road tests are conducted on customer cars and not in test tracks.

I believe, if a new TATA vehicle is launched, one shud wait atleast 4-6 months before booking one.

What do you say ppl?

Thanks hocuspocus! The Italians and the Spaniards have done the testing for us this time (Thanks Guys)...and needed a 2nd car badly hence went ahead with the booking.

turby
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Old 21st September 2007, 09:21   #1178
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I am really excited to have my hand on this truck. I am waiting for it for a long time.

anybody has any idea for the launch in Gurgaon and Delhi. Dhingra in Gurgaon has nothing to respond except vague responses.

I will contact Him Motors (I purchased Indica from them 6 yrs back) today to check about it.

I guess it will be a good idea not to wait for user feedback and buy the new lot. buying 1-2 month later may increase the chances of having a driven car delivered to me. Or I am just too paranoid.
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Old 21st September 2007, 09:22   #1179
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Good, so we will have too many LTOR for the Safari 2.2 in first week of Oct then. I will look forward to them. Please dont forget to take pictures during delivery etc.

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Hi KVS,

I was the 8th one today and the 1st 4X4 in VX trim.

The Beast shall soon be mine!

Turby
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Old 21st September 2007, 09:34   #1180
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Thanks hocuspocus! The Italians and the Spaniards have done the testing for us this time (Thanks Guys)...and needed a 2nd car badly hence went ahead with the booking.

turby
Well, what i believe and have noticed is that the quality which tata offers to Indian consumer is way too different that what is being exported to European and other countries.

For e.g, take a paint job. The paint job on Safari being exported will be much better that what is being sold in India. ABS, Airbags comes as a standard feature apart from other fits and fixtures.

Basically, the point is, Tata treat Indian consumers differently and phirangs differently. That's the fact of the matter.

If someone has a source here in TATA, can somebody verify if the suppliers of the raw material is the same for exported and Indian cars? If yes, are they using the same quality? Coz I doubt that?

If they are offering the same quality as they offer here, TATA's wouldn't last a second in those competitive markets.
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Old 21st September 2007, 09:42   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hocuspocus View Post
However, going by the Tata rules/guidelines, most of the road tests are conducted on customer cars and not in test tracks.

I believe, if a new TATA vehicle is launched, one shud wait atleast 4-6 months before booking one.

What do you say ppl?
Well, I have to say you are not familiar with how products are developed. I am not in automotive product development, but I am in another type of product development.

Any product design Engineer who has some sense will stick to time tested designs unless the requirements say otherwise or if the current design has known problems that needs to be fixed. Safari is not a new product, it is 10 years old. In the product parlance, this will be considered an upgrade. Only the engine is new, rest of the parts are field tested, any other changes are bug fixes, rather than new features.

This is not the same as Tata coming out with a new type car, like when Indica was introduced or Safari was introduced in the 90s. Then every part was new and therefore it had too many variables that could go wrong. Right now there are vrey few variables that are new. Also, the Tata design engineers have learnt a lot about designing a car for India in the last decade. I wouldn't worry too much.
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Old 21st September 2007, 09:53   #1182
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Well, I have to say you are not familiar with how products are developed. I am not in automotive product development, but I am in another type of product development.

Any product design Engineer who has some sense will stick to time tested designs unless the requirements say otherwise or if the current design has known problems that needs to be fixed. Safari is not a new product, it is 10 years old. In the product parlance, this will be considered an upgrade. Only the engine is new, rest of the parts are field tested, any other changes are bug fixes, rather than new features.

This is not the same as Tata coming out with a new type car, like when Indica was introduced or Safari was introduced in the 90s. Then every part was new and therefore it had too many variables that could go wrong. Right now there are vrey few variables that are new. Also, the Tata design engineers have learnt a lot about designing a car for India in the last decade. I wouldn't worry too much.
You are right, Samurai!

But since its a all new aluminium engine, and I guess, this new avatar of Safari will be bit lighter, doesn't that ask for adjustment in suspension and dynamics of this SUV. I ain't an expert but common sense says if there is a weight change for an engine or for the body, we would need adjustments.

I hope and wish Turbanman, your investment proves to be a wise one!

Congratulation again.

Do post some pics/reviews regarding experience with this new efficient beast.

Regards
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Old 21st September 2007, 10:12   #1183
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Yeah! and their recent acquisitions in SA/Korea etc add value to TATA's expertise, interms of the technical knowhow and technology transfer/Blueprints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Well, I have to say you are not familiar with how products are developed. I am not in automotive product development, but I am in another type of product development.

Any product design Engineer who has some sense will stick to time tested designs unless the requirements say otherwise or if the current design has known problems that needs to be fixed. Safari is not a new product, it is 10 years old. In the product parlance, this will be considered an upgrade. Only the engine is new, rest of the parts are field tested, any other changes are bug fixes, rather than new features.

This is not the same as Tata coming out with a new type car, like when Indica was introduced or Safari was introduced in the 90s. Then every part was new and therefore it had too many variables that could go wrong. Right now there are vrey few variables that are new. Also, the Tata design engineers have learnt a lot about designing a car for India in the last decade. I wouldn't worry too much.
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Old 21st September 2007, 10:20   #1184
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I would say that its not true, you will see an improved paintjob nowdays since they have collaborated with FIAT and has helped them learn better techniques from them.

ABS, airbags etc are provided due to goverment regulations for vehicle safety in those countries, otherwise they can't sell there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hocuspocus View Post
Well, what i believe and have noticed is that the quality which tata offers to Indian consumer is way too different that what is being exported to European and other countries.

For e.g, take a paint job. The paint job on Safari being exported will be much better that what is being sold in India. ABS, Airbags comes as a standard feature apart from other fits and fixtures.
Just like any market they have to adapt to the market forces of that particular country their consumer choices, how they like the interiors, what colours etc, like safari sells in only 4x4 there, no 4x2 since people like to buy true SUV's there.

And I am sure every commercial organization adapts its products to the market they sell in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hocuspocus View Post
Basically, the point is, Tata treat Indian consumers differently and phirangs differently. That's the fact of the matter.
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Old 21st September 2007, 10:31   #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hocuspocus View Post
But since its a all new aluminium engine, and I guess, this new avatar of Safari will be bit lighter, doesn't that ask for adjustment in suspension and dynamics of this SUV. I ain't an expert but common sense says if there is a weight change for an engine or for the body, we would need adjustments.
Are you suggesting that they plonked a new engine without adjusting the suspension/dynamics to match the difference in weight. C'mon, let's give them some credit. Cars are tested extensively after any changes that affect their general handling. By now they are experienced enough to know the usual trouble areas.
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