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Old 1st October 2007, 03:08   #1471
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Originally Posted by vabs78 View Post
I think Maruti Gypsy is also a fulltime 4wd. I am not sure though.
Nope, it's 2WD by default & has a manually selectable Low-Range (4L) & High-Range (4H) Box. Earlier cars also featured manual free wheeling hubs (I believe that is the correct term, could be wrong) but these were later discontinued.

Last edited by iraghava : 1st October 2007 at 03:10.
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Old 1st October 2007, 07:24   #1472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_trace
i saw millatary trucks driving 4wd constantly at speed of 70kms and even up on flat highways
how would you know that 4WD was engaged on these, just by looking at them ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Again, I'm not sure if the CRV provides a 4wd lock which the Tuc and the Xtrail provide.
Per Honda, the CR-V has a 'Real-Time' AWD. There was no lock / control available in the one I had, and guess the same now too - unless there's a change in current models.

Last edited by condor : 1st October 2007 at 07:27.
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Old 1st October 2007, 08:14   #1473
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Originally Posted by neo_trace View Post
so u mean we can drive on expressway at > 100 with 4H on? as same as 2wd?
Theoretically yes. If the road is STRAIGHT and smooth, you can drive with 4WD engaged and your transmission will not suffer damage. (Why would you want to do that?) These vehicles use 'limited slip' differentials.

All wheel drive is different in that the differentials are capable of full slip and hence there is no damage to transmission on pavement. As required the slip in the differentials is controlled to prevent any wheel from slipping or 'freewheeling'.

As for the Borg Warner 4WD system and electrically operated 'shift on the fly' transfer case, Mahindra has been using since the days of the Armada Grand! The current Scorpio 4WD has this system as well. Tata has also been using the same on the 4WD Safaris for very long.
Borg Warner India supplies them the transmissions.
A true blue 4WD would have three differentials with independent 'DIFF-LOCK' control for each.

Last edited by anupmathur : 1st October 2007 at 08:17.
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Old 1st October 2007, 09:11   #1474
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
The Safari (4x4 version) is a part time 4x4. You select 4WD when you think you need it. You can select from 4H (high ratio for higher speeds) and 4L (low ratio for pulling out of sticky situations). Getting into and out of 4H is easy and pretty much on the fly, but getting out of 4L requires you to unlock the hub locks by selecting reverse (or forward if you used 4L in reverse - basically the opposite direction of travel in 4L) and moving one car length.

The Tucson is also a part time 4x4, albeit more intelligent. By default the Tuc is a Front Wheel Drive vehicle, but the intelligent Borg Warner shifter automatically selects 4WD when there is a lack of traction (at any speed). It can also be locked on the 4WD, but this lock shifts automatically to intelligent 4WD (again shifting to 4WD when traction is required) after 40 kmph, which many people here have misunderstood as no 4WD > 40 kmph.

This is also the case with the Honda CRV and the Nissan Xtrail, but of course they are not Hyundai and therefore the same cheap gadgetery will become High-technology on the Honda and Nissan. Note however that while the Hyundai provides a 50:50 split of torque between the front and rear wheels, the Nissan provides a 60:40 and the Honda is further down at nearly 80:20. Again, I'm not sure if the CRV provides a 4wd lock which the Tuc and the Xtrail provide.

The Endeavour is also a part-time 4WD.

Amongst the vehicles commonly available in India, only the Forester featured full time 4wd or AWD.

Tucson, CRV are not real 4WDs.
They do not have central differencial.

Grand Vitara is full time 4WD with Central Differencial.

You can drive at any speed - it's always going o be in 4WD mode with excellent traction. And the central diff. is not locked so no problem of blowing any differencial part.

And in this regular 4WD driving mode, the drive ration is 47:53 biased towards rear axle.

If you need, you can enter 4H which just locks the central differencial and the drive is split 50:50 for even excellent traction. However, do not take turns (even the slightest) with this lock on else you may damage the stuff. And then comes the beauty of 4L where central diff is locked but the the transfer case gearing changes to provide you highest torque. Use this in real tough situation like muds and of course being the locked mode, do not turn as far as possible. The method is to "lock", move ahead, unlock to turn, then lock again if req. And all this with a slick rotary dial on the dash-board.

Now this is real 4x4 technology. And it's Suzuki so I am not talking about snob value at all.

This whole brilliance of 4WD of Grand Vitara is overshadowed by it's not so great engine. But even with that engine, GV does 0 to 100 in 15 seconds...Tata and Mahindra have to go a long way...

GV is sold for ~20,000 USD (what Rs. 9.5 lacks?), just the CBU thing makes it expensive by another 6 lacks (taxes, taxes, taxes)...the point is if Tatas are crying that Safari will become way too expensive if they want to make it true 4x4 and with high quality, just slap them. We know Suzuki makes it under 10 lacks (without special import and road taxes for CBUs).

Note: The 4x4 description above - from my detailed TD of GV on highway, muds, rough roads and rice fields. Accelration figures from ACI, prices from whatcar and many other US websites. Transfer case and central differenctial details from australian and US websites and also from the GV specs available from Suzuki New Zealand websites.

Please read http://www.4x4abc.com/ for excellent understanding of how "real full time" 4WD is different from these "real time" ones and the "AWD"s.

And the intention of this post purely technical in nature, I am not arguing with anyone. It's just that the real 100% 4WD SUV (Grand Vitara) was omitted from the discussion so far and was worth a mention. And ofcourse to voice my honest opinion that Tatas have to get serious with their technology.

Last edited by anandpadhye : 1st October 2007 at 09:24.
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Old 1st October 2007, 09:51   #1475
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Originally Posted by neo_trace View Post
so did u any sign of damage on 4wd mechanism?
Sorry this went unnoticed.
No signs of any damage - I personally had gear-box, transfer case and differential oils drained in my presence after the trip, and checked for any metal dust or other tell tale signs in the drained oil. None.
BTW, I'm a careful user; and have used 4WD regularly for over a decade in our mountains. I keep shifting in and out of 4WD mode as required. My old Gypsy suffered no damage either in almost 8 years of use.
By and large, read the book (there's ALWAYS a book with each car) and follow maker's instructions and/or guidelines.
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Old 1st October 2007, 09:54   #1476
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Not to forget the newly introduced Suzuki Grand Vitara. Oops! anand already mentioned it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Amongst the vehicles commonly available in India, only the Forester featured full time 4wd or AWD.
Yes, I was about to quote that. I have experienced these wheel locks in the gypsy, very uncomfortable to get down in the mud to lock the front wheels for a 4wd + they were so light that even after that they would almost start slipping to the sides under such conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Nope, it's 2WD by default & has a manually selectable Low-Range (4L) & High-Range (4H) Box. Earlier cars also featured manual free wheeling hubs (I believe that is the correct term, could be wrong) but these were later discontinued.
Get down to the 2.2l discussions guys!!!

Last edited by dadu : 1st October 2007 at 09:58. Reason: added the Oops!! ;)
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Old 1st October 2007, 09:57   #1477
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Don't know if anyone has observed, but Safari 2.2 thread has reached its 100th page even before the vehicle is officially launched!

Safari has got a huge fanfare. I was also waiting anxiously for this 2.2L VTT but alas, now I have to compromise with my desires and focus on my needs due to some circumstances. I am settling for Palio 1.6 Sport .
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:00   #1478
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after looking at the pics of the "new" 2.2, IMHo, the curent 3.0 looks better (front and back) and somehow, the beige theme just does not work in the safari. maybe it looks better in person, but looking at the pics, given the character of the safari, the current grey looks much better.
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:31   #1479
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Hats off to you Deepakk.

Nice pics. Would like to confirm if 2.2ltr is coming with alloys & tubeless tyres??

Any new feature additions in the Vx variant?

How bout the jump seats at the back? Are they still the same or any changes?

Does headlamp takes a change? I personally feel that the old safari with twin headlamps were better than the one in the 3.0L.
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:42   #1480
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yes definetely

i still like the old Wheel Cover and my VX front grill than the new one

and Beige interiors will surely get dirty fast than anything else
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Old 1st October 2007, 11:23   #1481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
yes definetely

i still like the old Wheel Cover and my VX front grill than the new one

and Beige interiors will surely get dirty fast than anything else

Actually for that matter, the Safari that came before the 3.0 L Dicor had a much crisper front-end. Those slim headlights made an otherwise bulky model look slick.
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Old 1st October 2007, 11:51   #1482
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Yeah! some 100 pages/near 1500 replies and nearing 1,00,000 views. Sort it by these and this thread wins hands down as compared to others, although it was started in mid 2006 and then locked many times inbetween.


MODS: My suggestion would be to lock it down again once safari is launched (4th Oct) and then members can start new TD and ownership threads. This thread would have lived its life till the launch and solved its purpose + its too long to followup by anyone new here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codemarauder View Post
Don't know if anyone has observed, but Safari 2.2 thread has reached its 100th page even before the vehicle is officially launched!

Last edited by dadu : 1st October 2007 at 11:52.
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:05   #1483
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On the other hand, I kind of liking the rear wheel cover, though the front grill is bit dull. Chrome or metallic could have been bit better.

Not much change in interior, though I will say beige is better that cheap grey color.
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:29   #1484
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Agree with you (rkbharat). A black beast with beige interiors will be awesome. Quality of plastic is important. Will check that out when I TD the beast. Lets not forget that the new Safari is primarily about the 2.2 ltr engine. Which I hear is awesome. The rest is bonus. Can't wait for the weekend to happen.

Gurus, need help here: What if I go for the EX (4X4) and put the DVD + new speakers + 2 LCD screens + rearview camera extra from outside? How much do you think I would need to spend to get something better than the original fit in the Vx? Yes, I will obviously have to sacrifice the airbags & ABS.

I need help in deciding between Ex - 4 X 4 and Vx - 4 X 2. Please.

I have never done off-roading. But intend to go to the hills regularly (winter & monsoon). I have done so in my esteem, but I intend to go till Leh. This I will do once in 1/2 years.
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Old 1st October 2007, 12:39   #1485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Deepak, another Q coming your way !!!

Did you notice if it had alloy wheels and tubeless tyres while you were at your spying ???
Its the same old alloys & tyres
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