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Old 5th November 2013, 09:01   #61
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

I think the huge jump in the Ertiga dispatches (from 2657 to 7224) could also be because of the impending launch of a competitor MUV. Are we expecting a Hyundai or Ford MUV to launch very shortly?

Such a huge jump seems similar to the situation when the Amaze was about to launch, and MSIL made sure it prioritized Dzire dispatches over everything else, even over the alto.
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:10   #62
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

This is truly surprising. It's been only six months and the EcoSport has, for the first time seen a dip in its sales. I've read that this is because Ford has limited stock of the baby SUV and the waiting period is as long as 6-8 months which is truly pathetic on Fords part.

This shows POOR planning by the company and in a way suicidal. After zillion years, Ford had a car that actually got the mass's interested and now they fail to deliver. (pun intended)

I want Ford to succeed in India, but with this kind of laid back attitude will harm them. This market is very unforgiving and is growing. Majority of Indians' are not loyal to any particular brand and won't wait around for a particular car just because it is a Ford or a Honda.
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:17   #63
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^^ I don't think Maruti Ertiga is expected to get a competition anytime soon. The sudden spurt is sales really surprising.
Chevrolet Enjoy is a rival in theory but at under 2000 nos is not a serious threat. A better looking Enjoy would have probably drawn more attention (as is the case with Nissan Evalia).
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Old 5th November 2013, 10:27   #64
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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I thought Amaze would outsell Dzire however numbers tell different story.
No chance.

Refer to this thread (Average Sales / Dealership : Indian Car Manufacturers). Honda has merely 15% of the sales points as Maruti. In fact, Maruti has dealerships in small towns where most people wouldn't even have heard of the Honda Amaze!
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:33   #65
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

But I have a feeling, once their new plant gets operational, Amaze is really going to give the Dzire some heavy competition. Imho, it's only the production constraint that's keeping Honda from becoming the third largest manufacturer. The Honda tag commands a premium in the market, better than a Ford or Maruti.
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Old 5th November 2013, 13:56   #66
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But I have a feeling, once their new plant gets operational, Amaze is really going to give the Dzire some heavy competition. Imho, it's only the production constraint that's keeping Honda from becoming the third largest manufacturer. The Honda tag commands a premium in the market, better than a Ford or Maruti.

Well one reason why Honda did not set up a big enough production capacity is that they are unsure if their dealer network will be able to sell all the cars they produce. Maruti has an excellent Network ( incl rural areas where incomes are going up due to good harvests and better prices) Honda even after 15 years in the country is largely an urban phenomenon ( that too Tier I cities)

I would also like to see the sales figures of Duster, Terrano and ES once MSIL launches the XA Alpha at the Auto Expo. Ford will rue its decision to go for exports at the cost of domestic market and antagonize the Indian car buyers who have to wait for ages to get their ES. As history has always proven, "nobody is bigger than the market"

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Old 5th November 2013, 19:24   #67
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

HM declares its October figures - dips 20.8%


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The company said majority of the sales in October 2013 were contributed from its highly popular Ambassador of which 176 units were sold as against 278 units in October 2012.

Besides, sales of its premium SUV Mitsubishi Pajero Sport grew to 154 units in October 2013 as against 119 units.

Total vehicles produced in October 2013 stood at 340 units as against 377 units in the year ago period.
Source:ET
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Old 5th November 2013, 21:57   #68
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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
It would be interesting to find out how many companies would have the guts to pull the plug on a car that sells an average of 3,000 cars per month. In fact, none of cars from GM have sold more than the Santro in October 2013. In fact, the 'outdated' single-engine Santro has even outsold the dual-engine cars like Ford Figo, Toyota Liva and GM Beat. And at a time of intense competition from so many competent hatches, it a tribute that the Santro can STILL generate 3000+ sales.
Toyota pulled the plug on Qualis even though it was selling like hot cake. Why? To replace it with more modern and more profitable Innova. They initially had trouble selling Innova, they even had to cut production but Innova reached heights which Qualis couldn't have achieved.

Don't focus only on numbers. Either you (Hyundai) sell the product wholeheartedly (like Maruti sells WagonR) or pull the plug, otherwise it hearts your other offerings (read Eon).

This is the main reason total sales of Hyundai haven't changed much even though they have introduced two new cars (Grand i10 and Eon).

This is the only strategy of Hyundai India I don't like (otherwise their understanding of Indian market is second to none).

IMHO when Hyundai introduced Verna, immediately they should have discontinued Accent, when they introduced Eon they should have discontinued Santro and when they introduced Grand i10 they should have discontinued i10. Period. Does Hyundai sell i10 and Grand i10 alongside in any of the mature markets?

I don't think it is a good strategy in the long run to sell old and new offerings in the same segment without proper marketing backup.

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Why should a cook discard a tried and tested 15-yr-old recipe especially when it still generates mouth-watering aroma? In my opinion, the older Santro is as capable a car as the Eon and more importantly, it has built a loyal following over the years. Why, if I had a budget of about Rs 4 lakh, I would blindly pick up the Santro as a simple, efficient, no-nonsense car that will deliver with considerable reliability for quite some time. Hyundai seems to have no problem serving a wider spread on the buffet table, as long as there are people lined up for the banquet to choose the dish of their choice.

The question, therefore, is: Should a company keep alive a car because it is more contemporary or because it rakes in the sales?
Cars are not recipes. Recipes are timeless, cars on the other hand have a finite life cycle. In my opinion 15 years is the life of any car from any manufacturer. This is the main reason Alto competitor Eon is not doing great, because of Hyundai India's half-hearted approach. Neither give Eon the heart it deserves nor pull the plug on Santro.

One more thing which I don't concur with is views of Mr. Steve Jobs & GTO (If you don't cannibalize your own product, somebody else will). This may be true for cellphones but I don't think it is true for cars.

Sorry for the long rant.

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Old 5th November 2013, 22:35   #69
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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post

Toyota pulled the plug on Qualis even though it was selling like hot cake. Why? To replace it with more modern and more profitable Innova. They initially had trouble selling Innova, they even had to cut production but Innova reached heights which Qualis couldn't have achieved.


Sorry for the long rant.

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Well said. +1.
Unless the herd mentality changes, manufacturer will continue to exploit. Every manufacturer is trying to milk Indian customers as much as possible.. Where else will we see the old and new models sell side by side. Not just hyundai, look at classic Fiesta or classic linea. It's ridiculous that even few expert team bhpians are endorsing this approach.
Several manufacturers are part of teambhp, and they read the content to get market pulse. If tbhpians endorse such moves, soon we can see almost every model having classic versions.
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Old 5th November 2013, 23:16   #70
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
Toyota pulled the plug on Qualis even though it was selling like hot cake. Why? To replace it with more modern and more profitable Innova. They initially had trouble selling Innova, they even had to cut production but Innova reached heights which Qualis couldn't have achieved.
I strongly doubt Toyota would repeat this experiment today. Would they, for example, discontinue its best-seller, Innova, to replace it with another product? I doubt it. Toyota must have realised by now that the Indian market has a logic that is different from other markets. Brand loyalty is extremely strong and people are willing to repose their faith in a product year after year, or, decade after decade, as is the case of the Maruti Omni.

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Don't focus only on numbers. Either you (Hyundai) sell the product wholeheartedly (like Maruti sells WagonR) or pull the plug, otherwise it hearts your other offerings (read Eon).
And why not? Car manufacturers are in the business of, well, doing business and numbers will essentially determine the success or failure of a car. The manufacturer may wholeheartedly believe in the product, but if it refuses to sell, what good is a sales dud in the line-up of the company? I still feel that with both Eon and Santro doing decent numbers, Hyundai should be happy with this business approach.

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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
This is the main reason total sales of Hyundai haven't changed much even though they have introduced two new cars (Grand i10 and Eon).
The very fact that they have retained their market share and SIX of its nine cars sold over 3000 copies is proof enough that the strategy makes perfect sense. And this could easily make other rivals green with envy. Rather than focusing on one-hit wonder models (like Renault, Ford, etc.), Hyundai has smartly spread its portfolio to cater to different customers with different priorities.

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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
This is the only strategy of Hyundai India I don't like (otherwise their understanding of Indian market is second to none).
It is fine to differ with a marketing strategy.

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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
when they introduced Eon they should have discontinued Santro and when they introduced Grand i10 they should have discontinued i10. Period. Does Hyundai sell i10 and Grand i10 alongside in any of the mature markets? I don't think it is a good strategy in the long run to sell old and new offerings in the same segment without proper marketing backup.
Suzuki does sell various versions of the Alto here in India. Why didn't it discontinue with the Alto800 when the AltoK10 was launched and why did Maruti retain Ato800 and Altok10 when it had the A-Star (which is Suzuki Alto international market)? Wasn't Ford simultaneously selling both versions of the Fiesta? So, what is the problem if Hyundai follows a similar strategy?

And are you implying, by any chance, that India is an immature market?

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In my opinion 15 years is the life of any car from any manufacturer. This is the main reason Alto competitor Eon is not doing great, because of Hyundai India's half-hearted approach. Neither give Eon the heart it deserves nor pull the plug on Santro.
By your 15-year logic, Maruti should have discontinued with the Omni about 15 years ago. By why should they, if the people still believe in the "old" product decade-after decade?

And why do you think Hyundai has adopted a half-hearted approach with the Eon? At some point in time, Hyundai could well decide to equip the Eon with a larger engine, just like the Alto got a bigger engine with the k10. The trump cards could always come out at the appropriate time.

You may disagree, but I sincerely don't believe that the Eon can ever be or even hope to be an Alto beater. The Eon 800 is a better built car with much better fit and finish compared to the Alto800, in almost ever parameter. The Eon price tag bound to be higher than the Alto800 and for a price conscious customer, the Alto800 is bound to sell more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
One more thing which I don't concur with is views of Mr. Steve Jobs & GTO (If you don't cannibalize your own product, somebody else will). This may be true for cellphones but I don't think it is true for cars.

Sorry for the long rant.
To be honest, I believe that Steve's quote is apt for EVERY product, cars, cellphones or chocolates.

I am sure you will respond to my views and feel free to do so. But I will let you have the final say because since we think differently, this discussion with digress from the main topic of this post.
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Old 5th November 2013, 23:26   #71
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Post Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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And are you implying, by any chance, that India is an immature market?
India is an immature market. I am not implying it really is. Ask anybody, be it car manufacturers, auto analysts or our mods and enthusiasts.

Where else will you find sub 4 meter cars as sedans, weird SUV definition and taxation based on that.

We can have an opinion poll on this topic. How many team-bhpians feel that Indian auto/car market has matured?

I am up for it. Mods how about it?
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Old 6th November 2013, 00:02   #72
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Originally Posted by mroptimist View Post
India is an immature market. I am not implying it really is. Ask anybody, be it car manufacturers, auto analysts or our mods and enthusiasts.

Where else will you find sub 4 meter cars as sedans, weird SUV definition and taxation based on that.

We can have an opinion poll on this topic. How many team-bhpians feel that Indian auto/car market has matured?

I am up for it. Mods how about it?
The very fact that most major automobile companies are working overtime to come out with length-specific (sub-4 mtr sedans) and engine-specific (1.2 ltrs, etc.) cars to ensure that they comply with and benefit from Indian laws is itself proof enough that India is a H-U-G-E market and commands significant interest among the auto giants.

"Maturity" is a value-loaded notion that varies across culture and society. There is no specific yardstick that determines maturity levels. For that matter, who determines the maturity levels of cars, the companies, customers, or the government? I doubt there is a yardstick to determine if India is a "mature" market or not. Some will agree, others won't.

This IS my last post on this discussion, as I am now digressing from the main topic.

Last edited by misquitas : 6th November 2013 at 00:12.
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Old 6th November 2013, 06:22   #73
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
With a stubborn frown, HM still refuses to share Ambassador numbers. Don't know what they have to hide as the BSIV version would have only improved sales of the ol' lady. I'm pretty sure it's outselling some of the more modern sedans.
Apparently not. This just in from a press release and the sales numbers look pathetic even after finally achieving the BSIV capabilities on the 1.5 DSL version. The full article here http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/25266729.cms

Quote:
The Kolkata-based company had sold 330 units in the domestic market in October 2013 down by 20.8 per cent, from 417 units sold during the same period of previous year, Hindustan Motors said in a statement.

The company said majority of the sales in October 2013 were contributed from its highly popular Ambassador of which 176 units were sold as against 278 units in October 2012.
With the 154 units of Pajero reported here, the total adds up to 330 units as reported by them in the news. A very very dated design finds few takers and even the Kolkata taxi segment is being allowed to buy cars from the Tata (Indigo), Ford (classic Fiesta) and the Toyota (Etios) stable to phase out the BSIII versions of the Ambys. Recently the West Bengal government allowed the sale of the offerings from its rivals to be registered as taxis and in fact in an indirect way the government is forcing the taxi owners to go for the non-Amby options. The death spiral for the Amby seems to have accelerated now.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:23   #74
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Chevrolet Enjoy is a rival in theory but at under 2000 nos is not a serious threat. A better looking Enjoy would have probably drawn more attention (as is the case with Nissan Evalia).
Chevy screwed up their brand name by underestimating the Indian crowd. Its no longer easy to sell a car in India if it carries a 'Chevy' logo, even if its good; so the fate of an average product is better left unsaid.

When they failed with Opel and decided to try with the Chevy brand name, they did a huge mistake by launching a rebadged Daewoo (Optra) in India. Chevy had a strong brand image in India as the makers of the 'Impala'. When the expectation was a product of the level of Impala and the reality was a rebadged Daewoo, it started erasing all the goodwill that the Chevy brand name had created in the past. They compounded this mistake again and again by launching a series of rebadged Daewoos like Aveo, Spark, Captiva etc. which gave the perception that Chevy in India is the old Daewoo renamed. They might have sold more cars if they brought back these cars as Daewoos instead of rebadging them as Chevys and tarnishing the Chevy brand.

Unlike US and European markets, Indians have been experts at rebadging right from the days of modifying Contessas as Mercs by changing the grill and lights, and when they saw a company like GM do it officially, it didn't go well with the crowd. General perception about them shifted to someone who thinks they can fool the Indian public by changing the logo on a car. Indian public was already capable of doing that on their own; they didn't need the #1 car manufacturer in the world to do it for them!

They did launch Beat and Cruze, but it was already too late and the perception was already formed.

Recently, they had a chance to recover from this image as a rebadging firm when they ran out of Daewoos and needed new launches, but they did it again with their Chinese partner by launching Sail twins and Enjoy.

The fiasco around the recall of Tavera and Sail twins have compounded the trust issue and its going to be a very difficult battle for any Chevy to get back on track.

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Originally Posted by coolkurt View Post
But I have a feeling, once their new plant gets operational, Amaze is really going to give the Dzire some heavy competition. Imho, it's only the production constraint that's keeping Honda from becoming the third largest manufacturer. The Honda tag commands a premium in the market, better than a Ford or Maruti.
Even with the new factory getting operational, the max output we can look at would be around 15-20k per month, which is not really going to worry Maruti much. Once diesel City gets launched, Honda would start eating away from Verna numbers more than DZire since SX4 doesn't sell anyway. Not every customer of Amaze is on a tight budget but they chose it since its the only diesel from Honda. With a proper diesel sedan from Honda available, even some Amaze customers would go one level up. It could also mean ordering a coffin for Linea.

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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
I would also like to see the sales figures of Duster, Terrano and ES once MSIL launches the XA Alpha at the Auto Expo. Ford will rue its decision to go for exports at the cost of domestic market and antagonize the Indian car buyers who have to wait for ages to get their ES.
That's going to take a long while (2015-16) based on reports from Maruti. By that time, market might have moved on to a new craze since Dusters and Ecosports are getting really common on the roads and people might actually get interested in something different.

As for Ford's decision to focus on exports, they would have made huge profits thanks to the Dollar-rupee exchange rate. It was a period that translated to cheaper production costs and hence higher profit margins for them, since they were selling these products abroad. Indian customers might have suffered and the sales numbers might indicate lower numbers but in this case, I'm sure Ford management is still smiling.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:54   #75
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Default Re: October 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Chevy screwed up their brand name by underestimating the Indian crowd. Its no longer easy to sell a car in India if it carries a 'Chevy' logo, even if its good; so the fate of an average product is better left unsaid.

When they failed with Opel and decided to try with the Chevy brand name, they did a huge mistake by launching a rebadged Daewoo (Optra) in India. Chevy had a strong brand image in India as the makers of the 'Impala'. When the expectation was a product of the level of Impala and the reality was a rebadged Daewoo, it started erasing all the goodwill that the Chevy brand name had created in the past. They compounded this mistake again and again by launching a series of rebadged Daewoos like Aveo, Spark, Captiva etc. which gave the perception that Chevy in India is the old Daewoo renamed.
GM, I guess, consciously did not bring it's American lineup to India. Opel cars were not really known to be reliable, and cars like Impala, Malibu and Cobalt weren't going to be reliable either. Moreover, the above cars are large ones, which does not sell in good numbers here in India. What GM wanted in their lineup were small cars, hence the Daewoo lineup (Spark, Aveo, Optra) made better sense.

ps: My personal opinion is that the Chevy brand name is still strong in India, unlike Fiat who better shut shop and leave.
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