Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th November 2013, 08:54   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
motomaverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,838
Thanked: 864 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

A very positive news for someone who roots for Tata. Dropping the old names and designing new bodies along with engines is certainly a step in the right direction. Someone pointed out about their service quality well I can say that they are definitely better than most of the manufacturers out there and have improved in the last couple of years. Another wishful thought will be to put a auto gear box with the Falcons.

It is quite interesting that Tata choose a name Falcon considering they have a Jaguar in their stable as well.
motomaverick is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th November 2013, 10:56   #17
BHPian
 
vivekgk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 652
Thanked: 378 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
The surprising thing is the mention of the 1.2 turbo petrol being based on the Xeta 1.2 engine. The Xeta 1.2's 475 SI is an ordinary engine to begin with. It's basically derived from their 1.4 NA diesel and has its limitations. It's an old school 8-valve SOHC design, unnecessarily heavy, very noisy at higher rpms, doesn't rev freely and is not fuel efficient either.

Unless they drastically change the nature of the engine, it isn't going to endear itself to petrol car buyers. A turbo would surely boost power and torque numbers, but the drawbacks of the engine will still be there.

The 101 PS 16-valve DOHC 1.4 petrol in the Indigo XL would have been a better choice to convert into a 1.2 turbo petrol. I don't understand why the Xeta's 1.2 was chosen over this more promising donor engine for the project.
The 1.2L Xeta engine and the DOHC 1.4 are based on the same 475 block, only with different bore/stroke and cyl head. The 1.4L petrol engine was earlier available on the Indica and Indigo petrol models, producing around 85 PS. The Indigo XL was the only car to get this engine in 100bhp tune. I think the issue then was with making a transaxle that could handle 100 bhp. Tata didn't have access to Fiat's parts bin then.

Converting an engine from SOHC 2v/cyl to DOHC 4v/cyl setup requires only the re-engineering of the head assembly, and has been done in several cars, including the venerable M800, Esteem etc. Since Tata has already done it once on the Indigo XL, the tech's already there.

In fact, heavier engines are better for turbo charging, because of the additional stress that the turbo boost puts on the block. Thus I believe the old 1.2 is a great candidate. Maybe the more experienced folks on the forum could share their wisdom on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
I think dropping the Vista & Manza names may be the right way to go. They have had a long innings and new names would mean a fresh start without the baggage of the negative perceptions.
The thing that surprises me is the sub 4 meter replacement for Manza. Does that mean they are only going to have a compact sedan?
I completely agree. Tata should drop the existing names. I am surprised that the sub 4m sedan is replacing the Manza, as I thought they would coexist. A big sedan with a boot makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomaverick View Post
A very positive news for someone who roots for Tata. Dropping the old names and designing new bodies along with engines is certainly a step in the right direction. Someone pointed out about their service quality well I can say that they are definitely better than most of the manufacturers out there and have improved in the last couple of years. Another wishful thought will be to put a auto gear box with the Falcons.

It is quite interesting that Tata choose a name Falcon considering they have a Jaguar in their stable as well.
Have to agree about the service levels improving. I tested out the improved Indigo eCS recently and it is miles ahead in every way compared to my Indigo TDi, although may be not as heavily built.

Like several others here, I think that Falcon is just a code name. Most manufacturers like to use ambitious and cool-sounding code names when referring to WIP projects .

Last edited by vivekgk : 17th November 2013 at 11:01.
vivekgk is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 20th November 2013, 08:37   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
safari_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bengaluru / Bagdal
Posts: 1,058
Thanked: 377 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.

ET also lets out the project name for their another set of new cars.

Quote:
After the Falcons, ET learns the 'X0' platform hatchback and compact sedan codenamed 'Kite' will hit the market in 2015.
source - http://www.livemint.com/Industry/TCb...ew-models.html
and http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/26059049.cms
safari_lover is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 09:51   #19
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 39
Thanked: 27 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.
Yes, read it.
They are also going to retain the existing Manza and Vista...
I dont mind them trashing the existing Indica and Indigo and replacing them with the Vista and Manza. But pretty sure they wont do that!!
IndiFuture is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 09:53   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 1,762
Thanked: 532 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.

ET also lets out the project name for their another set of new cars.
Business Standard article also has some details.

Mr. Yadav suggest the Falcons will be quite different from the existing cars, and they will sit alongside the Vista/Manza etc. and not be replacements. He also says that these cars will have a new powertrain.

I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...1900981_1.html
julupani is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 12:03   #21
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 186
Thanked: 135 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

None of the test mules currently being spotted suggest a completely different car.
Few days back I also saw one mule very closely on an internal Pune city road (Dagdusheth Ganpati Temple to Swargate). The car was Vista with (i) Manza/D90 like console (ii) some work in progress rear lights, I could not notice much change in rear body panels. (Was just behind the car on two wheeler at a traffic signal)
Although It was a bit busy road, The car seems to be very silent, unlike any diesel or TATA’s home grown petrol engine.

If they are really working on a significantly different platform, either they are yet to start on road testing, or testing is going on at some secrete place.
Vishal.R is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 15:28   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 858
Thanked: 296 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Indica, Vista and Manza should co-exist along with the to-be introduced 'Falcon' range.

Is there any chance the 1.0 litre DICOR engine Tata displayed in Auto Expo 2012 will be used in any of the models?
simplyself is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 16:12   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyself View Post
Is there any chance the 1.0 litre DICOR engine Tata displayed in Auto Expo 2012 will be used in any of the models?
Displayed in 2012 = in production by 2017, going by TML's past record.
Steeroid is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 19:22   #24
BHPian
 
veyron_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 419
Thanked: 225 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

A step in the right direction, I would say. I had said this in one of the other threads too, that Tata needs new products that dont look anything like their current products. A completely new design (if not what is under the hood) is what they need to reposition themselves in the market.

Be it the indica, vista or the Manza they all look unnecessarily bulky, rather obese! While it doesn't look odd on a safari or a Aria, the vista and Manza sure look like age old designs.

But going by the spyshots on carwale, I am really worried if its just the vista and manza. the head lights in one of the pictures clearly resembles the Vista.

If the project falcon is all about fresh designs and new projects, I am really happy for them. Its also time they did a rebranding exercise, just to change the old perception and give a fresh outlook.
veyron_head is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 20:21   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 858
Thanked: 296 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post

I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers.
I have seen a banner in Concorde, Hyderabad which says November and December months are Taxi Cab and Fleet Owners target months. This could be a prelude or the first act to the differentiation that you have mentioned.
simplyself is offline  
Old 20th November 2013, 23:42   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 39
Thanked: 27 Times
Default

The new car doesn't look much different from the existing car, considering the spyshots doing the rounds. Tata has a habit of retaining the existing cars along with new cars (like they did when they kept both Indica/Vista and Indigo/Manza. So its not surprising.
I personally would've loved a more straight-line car, like the Polo/Vento type, or the Jazz/City type. But as companies like Honda surprise us with their futuristic design, a company like Tata, which used to be a pioneer in car design in India keeps disappointing.
IndiFuture is offline  
Old 21st November 2013, 10:27   #27
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,448
Thanked: 6,429 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
...I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers...
That's a very good move I say. Indica / Indigo / Manza has already been known for Taxis. If TATA discontinues this, then the taxi market will go after the new models and screw those brands as well.

Instead now TATA can better price Vista & Manza, launch stripped down variants and price the NEW ones at a better budget (still offering good VFM) so that operators think twice to touch these models over Vista / Manza.

And longer manufacturing of those models should ensure the ROI too.
swiftnfurious is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 21st November 2013, 17:10   #28
BHPian
 
veyron_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 419
Thanked: 225 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post

Instead now TATA can better price Vista & Manza, launch stripped down variants and price the NEW ones at a better budget (still offering good VFM) so that operators think twice to touch these models over Vista / Manza.

And longer manufacturing of those models should ensure the ROI too.
Good thought. They should also consider selling the yellow board versions of Vista and Manza through their commercial vehicle division and leave the passenger car division exclusively for white board owners.
veyron_head is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 21st November 2013, 17:45   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
GrammarNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,022
Thanked: 1,620 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Definitely a step in the right direction. Glad they're drifting away from the 'Indi-' tags in naming the new offerings.

Petrol : Although the price difference between petrol & diesel is maximum in recent history right now, people have realised that Petrol is cheaper in the long run and can be economically converted to CNG, hence the surge in demand for petrol cars. This obvious reality is what they've focused on.

Their 1st offering after the Horizonext tweaked facelift for 8 cars. Hope the quality issues have been given first hand attention and they've gained better control over service centers.

'Falcon', hmm... kindof like it, but will the new design philosophy speak in favour of the name?
GrammarNazi is offline  
Old 23rd November 2013, 21:11   #30
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,459 Times
Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

courtesy cartoq
http://www.cartoq.com/cartoq-scoop-e...lcon4-project/
Attached Thumbnails
On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-1458607_690139594353662_1045413116_n.jpg  

On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-1460045_690139591020329_538959059_n.jpg  

Attached Images
  
PAVAN KADAM is offline   (8) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tata Bolt 1.2L Revotron : Official Review Aditya Official New Car Reviews 533 10th November 2017 16:12
Rumour: Tata Motors to launch performance brand. 120 BHP Bolt coming shimoo The Indian Car Scene 77 16th March 2015 21:03
Tata Bolt vs other B2-segment Hatchbacks a4anurag Hatchbacks 13 13th March 2015 22:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:29.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks