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Old 4th February 2014, 07:58   #301
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

The Bolt looks great inside out. I love bit and pieces on the inside and how they all are put together. The Zest is as good as it can get for a compact sedan less than 4m based on the big Vista.

They have a done a good job with the design, a very important step achieved. But this is still just half the story. Tata now got to work real hard on the quality and pricing of these very desirable machines. I think this a where Karl Slym will be missed.

I hear the EPS is sourced from ZF and Narain Karthikeyan was involved in the team to make the cars driver oriented. Hope all of this comes together.

Also, the MJD with AMT on the Zest will be breaking new grounds in the segment and I think many manufacturers are going to follow the trend soon. All the best Tata!
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:03   #302
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Fantastic interior. But the OVRM adjustment stalks on both sides is an eyesore. I hope they provide electronic adjustment.
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:13   #303
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Zest is the first car to offer diesel with automatic manual transmission. Now that is a winning feature for me. Amaze did not amaze me. Apart from good mileage, it has a lot of negatives like - car that shudders like a lorry when you start/stop, most pathetic looking dashboard, has less or no proper noise insulation and the list goes on..I have more than one reason to ignore the Amaze.

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Originally Posted by invidious View Post
The Tatas never did make a particularly bad car in the first generation Indica. But none of their cars have had any decisively winning feature which would win it a core group of multi generational buyers. While these look like good products, why would someone buy a Zest over an Amaze?
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:25   #304
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Good work by Tata on design front. Comprehensive feature list. Tatas have always been generous with interior space and packaging and now they've learned some stuff from Honda Amaze as well. The back of the front seats has been scooped out to make more leg room for rear bench.
Kudos to the entire team.
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:29   #305
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It is interesting to see a host of new features which are radical for a Tata car - LED lights, touchscreen entertainment systems, voice recognition and so on. The AMT is also a brilliant move. Hope they offer it as an option on the petrols too.
ToI photos show both Zest and Bolt to be built well, at least from the outside.
Somewhere I think it would be wrong to still continue with the old Indica or Indigo. As long as they have these old products to fall back on they won't go all out with the new models. People should not be offered the old models at all.
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:35   #306
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Fantastic interior. But the OVRM adjustment stalks on both sides is an eyesore. I hope they provide electronic adjustment.
If you see the images shared in the last page, you will see electronically adjustable mirror controls on the driver side door. Strange that TML chose not to include the top-end model in the interior shots. Perhaps, they mandatorily need to goof-up somewhere.


That said, if these design cues, interiors and features made there way into the Safari Storme, can't help wonder how it would make a big impact on the desirability and thus sales. Great Job TATA, but still some long way to go.
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:46   #307
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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While these look like good products, why would someone buy a Zest over an Amaze?
Well - I'm stuck at the question - why do people buy Amaze! It feels cheap in and out, and there is no getting away from it, all the more when you consider the 9L OTR price tag for the top end petrol automatic. The Zest (As gauged from the pics) seems to offer a Compact Sedan experience, and not a Cheap Sedan experience.

On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-hondaamazesedan01.jpg

Name:  TATA_Zest__Image__1742527g.jpg
Views: 4583
Size:  29.9 KB

PS - Putting my money where my mouth is - we had gone to book Amaze as it looked best on paper for our requirements. But everyone in the family rejected it after getting to feel the car. Purchase decision was postponed to wait for the Jazz to launch. Zest diesel AMT looks like a good option and will be considering it if Honda is not able to price/ quality of the Jazz right this time.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 4th February 2014 at 08:52.
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Old 4th February 2014, 09:00   #308
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post

I hear the EPS is sourced from ZF and Narain Karthikeyan was involved in the team to make the cars driver oriented. Hope all of this comes together.
I hope the above lines are true. If they make a driver oriented car, people will start giving this new tata a serious thought.
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Old 4th February 2014, 09:26   #309
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Times mentioned these cars would be available in the second half of 2014.
It looks like only the badge is the same. Should they redesign the badge too?

Last edited by honeybee : 4th February 2014 at 09:35.
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Old 4th February 2014, 09:36   #310
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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PS - Putting my money where my mouth is - we had gone to book Amaze as it looked best on paper for our requirements. But everyone in the family rejected it after getting to feel the car. Purchase decision was postponed to wait for the Jazz to launch. Zest diesel AMT looks like a good option and will be considering it if Honda is not able to price/ quality of the Jazz right this time.
Absolutely! Couldn't agree with you more. The metal is really thin especially on the back doors. The only reason why people would buy it is because of the brand.
The new Tata models look good. I hope they are able to meet the expectations of the public in terms of price and reliability when the cars are launched.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 4th February 2014 at 14:36. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:08   #311
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
It is interesting to see a host of new features which are radical for a Tata car - LED lights, touchscreen entertainment systems, voice recognition and so on. The AMT is also a brilliant move. Hope they offer it as an option on the petrols too.
ToI photos show both Zest and Bolt to be built well, at least from the outside.
Somewhere I think it would be wrong to still continue with the old Indica or Indigo. As long as they have these old products to fall back on they won't go all out with the new models. People should not be offered the old models at all.
  • At a point of time (IIRC 2-3yrs back), LED tail lights were very much offered in the Vista.
  • Last year they came out with the touchscreen entertainment system in the VistaD90 & Manza.
  • AFAIK The AMT is from Magneti Marelli (Fiat) - same as the one coming in Maruti Celerio. (Can the experts check with this info.)
  • They've used the Vista platform for both the Bolt & Zest.
  • They've put together excellent interiors.
  • Changed the MID instrumentation and brought in a ZF electronic power steering.
  • They've upgraded the rear suspension providing 3-point independent Link - McPherson Struts.
  • Developed a water-cooled turbo for the 1.2 Revotron with a 85bhp output. Its supposedly an old school iron-cast MPFi engine - rather reliable. FE is not being shared - maybe its another surprise or maybe they haven't got any great noteworthy figures.
  • Point is, they've managed to weave all this together at the right time in the nice way.
  • Sales at Tata Motors is spiraling down, and these 2 are supposed to bring them out of that. So I guess they'd introduce them with an aggressive price tag. I'd expect price hikes 2 months after introduction.
  • Tata is known for these AMC contracts that keep maintenance costs rather low. Not sure if those will be offered.
Anyway, what matters most would be how they keep up the service experience such that customers aren't cheated, apart from ensuring the general competence levels at service centers is reasonably high.

Old models are their cash cows, and they're unlikely to kill them. Moreover, its good because the Taxi market would stick to the old Vista models whereas these new ones would be kept for private passenger segment.
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:23   #312
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Must say a big step by Tata motors. Vista platform being the donor is evident, but Vista platform was much better than the old Indica one.

Tata has also worked really hard on the aggressive styling and feature rich interiors. I would anyday like to show off these interiors than the ones offered by the Honda and Toyota in sub 10 lakh cars !!!

I really wish Tata goes aggressive with their After sales service improvement as well and the QC aspects of these to avoid consistent niggles.

My applause to Tata designers and all the engineers who made this. And RIP Karl once again. You did so much work and not here to read our comments
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:24   #313
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Well - I'm stuck at the question - why do people buy Amaze!
Ownership costs and experience I guess. I spend More on maintaining my 7 year old indica than most honda sedans which cost twice the price. Things keep failing left and right.

If you're buying for just 3 years, then you'll have to worry only about the hit on resale, but the longevity of tata's products is still unproven. If you go look at the Indica vista problems thread, you'll see people worrying about power loss, check engine light, any number of problems. The same engine is used by any number of cars in india. You don't see swift owners (despite there being a lot more of them), or heck, even punto owners posting so many queries despite all three cars sharing the same engine.

I like this car. I liked even the vista, but tata cars seem to age less than gracefully. Something that is a concern if you plan to keep the car for more than 2-3 years.

When you buy an amaze or an etios, Yes it's bland, but at least you know you will not have to spend a bomb maintaining it. There are cars like skoda and VW for which maintenance costing a bomb is okay, because it comes with the premium image. A 'VFM' car that is expensive to own - now that's a problem.

Last edited by greenhorn : 4th February 2014 at 10:29.
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:26   #314
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by SunilM View Post
....Not to take away anything from late Karl Slym, but the real work on this re-design was probably done by scores of designers and engineers working hard at TATA motors design studios and floors. It is their creation...
The credit goes to the man who made these changes happen! For every mistake the dealers / A$$ do, we blame the company & the MD right? The same way, when things go right, they are the ones who take credit too.

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Originally Posted by delta5 View Post
....- Blacked out C- pillar on the Bolt. Don't think it goes well with the car...
Infact, that's one of the better things I loved about Bolt! That with the spoiler does give a little sporty character to the car.

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....- Marketing: A good marketing team can make a hit out of a lemon and it applies vice versa. Please hire a new ad agency and fire the one you have....
If you saw the ads of Bolt & Zest, you would NOT have made this point. Those videos are pretty much on some of the previous pages. Please do have a look. Infact, even I felt the Twist ad is a bit over the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by invidious View Post
...While these look like good products, why would someone buy a Zest over an Amaze?
You tell me why would you choose an Amaze over Zest?? The only reason one would buy an Amaze over this should be because of pseudo brand show off or 26 kmpl. As a buyer, I would pick anyday a Zest over Amaze, because

I need good looking interiors
Low NVH levels inside the cabin
Decent space
Decent boot capacity
Decent FE
Good reliability - niggles / rattles are fine, but NOT a breakdown. I do NOT think an MJD Manza / Vista was ever that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
...Making your product desirable is not an easy job. Ask any mp3 player manufacturer trying to sell his/her product in the iPod market.
While iPod is retailed for around 3K, there is a good market for MP3 players which perform decently at around 1k. Those who can't afford iPod and those who want a 60% performance at 30-40% price. That would be the kind of market for Zest / Bolt I believe.

Disclaimer :: Percentage values are provided just to drive the point; those numbers can't be real, as we all know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
...2. And No more "Indigo" ?
Thankfully. The interiors coupled with name just does NOT give the feel of a cab now. I think the next generation will completely address deviation from this point (look wise).

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 4th February 2014 at 10:52.
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:42   #315
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

I did receive a host of replies so am not quoting everyone here who by and large made the same point.

1. I have nothing against Tata cars - I would like for them to do well.
2. The Vista / Nano / Aria / Manza are all competent products but none of them set the sales charts on fire.
3. When I say Tata Motors has "no decisive winning factor" - what I mean is - that a buyer who is looking for a brand would go for VW, for looks would go for a Fiat, for ease of maintenance would opt for a Honda or Toyota, for good economy, resale value and VFM overall would opt for a Suzuki.
4. Of course Tata has done a grand job with the interiors of this car - am sure they want to change their "taxi operator" image. They failed to do that with the Vista - if I remember correctly, for the first few years they refused to sell the Vista as a Taxi.

By the way, does anyone know if there will be a petrol automatic? The news is a touch conflicting.
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