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Old 4th February 2014, 22:22   #361
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Post Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Tata, I see, is making an all round effort. Just went into the Zest site and the website is designed well and pretty simple too.

And found this in there. Will need to watch out for it in TBHP's official test drive.

Name:  Tata Zest  Drive modes.png
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Last edited by k_ajay : 4th February 2014 at 22:24.
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Old 5th February 2014, 00:17   #362
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

One major difference I could notice in yesterday's press release & today's Zest website. Yesterdays press release mentioned the Rear Suspension: Independent 3- link Mc Pherson strut with Antiroll Bar whereas the website today mentions Rear: Semi Independent Twist beam with coil spring.

Now, which one is true, both are from the same company, difference of just one day.

Suspension - Press Release 03-Feb-2014
On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-suspension-press-release-03feb2014.jpg

Suspension - Zest website 04-Feb-2014

On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-suspension-zest-website-04feb2014.jpg
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Old 5th February 2014, 07:28   #363
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Frankly, I won't mind upgrading my vista now! Both these cars look good and continue the space and possibly comfort that the Tatas are known for. Having owned an absolute beauty of a
Car for 4 years now, I can vouch for the reliability and excellent quality that the Tatas bring to the table with their newer offerings.

My car after 4 years has no rattles! ( beat that swift!). And two friends who bought the manza and vista are also happy with their vehicles. I am looking forward to the revotron 1.2. And though I will love to have a 100bhp mill, I think for most uses (99%) of the time the 85 will suffice.

Go tata!!!
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Old 5th February 2014, 09:00   #364
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

I see most people going gaga over the new releases from Tata Motors.
While I do agree that it is indeed a huge leap forward for Tata motors, the competition has also moved up in the last few years when Tata Motors was sleeping.

I don't like the profile of the cars - too much similarity to the Vista and also the front grille. I am sure there are better looking cars in the market!

What is indeed exciting are the new technologies on offer - the 1.2 Revotron, the independent suspension (if true), 16" alloys, cutting-age infotainment system, projector headlights - lot of segment-firsts I believe.
Though the 1.2 Revotron sounds exciting, the power output is a huge downer when we have more powerful naturally aspirated 1.2 petrol motors in the market.
The key to the success of these models will be the pricing (which I think will be very competitive) but more importantly, providing a niggle-free ownership experience. With so much new tech on offer, I would be very skeptical of buying these cars immediately going by history. I hope I am proved wrong though!
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Old 5th February 2014, 10:02   #365
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
One major difference I could notice in yesterday's press release & today's Zest website. Yesterdays press release mentioned the Rear Suspension: Independent 3- link Mc Pherson strut with Antiroll Bar whereas the website today mentions Rear: Semi Independent Twist beam with coil spring. Now, which one is true, both are from the same company, difference of just one day.
What an anti-climax! TM's PR Deptt. is known for such goof ups!

Designing independent rear suspension would involve substantial re-engineering and I guess for cost reasons they have retained the "DANDA" type rear axle, the usual feature these days not only in the CS segment but even in higher segment cars like Corolla.


This may be of interest:


http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...uspension.html (Why are car makers abandoning independent rear suspension?)
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Old 5th February 2014, 10:23   #366
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

IMO, from the looks (via the pictures), the Tata Zest & the Ford Figo concept are most symmetrical looking cars in their category. They are really the best lookers in their category.
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Old 5th February 2014, 10:30   #367
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Can we expect a higher tuned 1.2 Revotron and 90PS diesel on that?
Or even better 1.5 Revotron?
My guess would be an higher tuned 1.2 Revotron. Diesel may not even be offered on the TTR Bolt.
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:02   #368
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by torquecurve View Post
Frankly, I won't mind upgrading my vista now! Both these cars look good and continue the space and possibly comfort that the Tatas are known for. Having owned an absolute beauty of a
Car for 4 years now, I can vouch for the reliability and excellent quality that the Tatas bring to the table with their newer offerings.

My car after 4 years has no rattles! ( beat that swift!). And two friends who bought the manza and vista are also happy with their vehicles. I am looking forward to the revotron 1.2. And though I will love to have a 100bhp mill, I think for most uses (99%) of the time the 85 will suffice.

Go tata!!!
Absolutely agree with you buddy. My Vista is also 4 years old and is in perfect condition. I am surprised at times when people complain about how many parts they have changed and how bad the vehicle is. I have had no issues with mine. And keep in mind this is a 2009 model.
All I do is get it serviced regularly.
I will definitely upgrade to the Zest when it is launched!!
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:03   #369
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Post Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
My guess would be an higher tuned 1.2 Revotron. Diesel may not even be offered on the TTR Bolt.
Higher tuned 1.2 with 100bhp may be possible (I hope). Didn't we read some pages prior or on some automotive news site, mention of the 1.2 Revotron 100bhp engine or people requesting for it (either of it)?

This page has some information from the press conference Tata had regarding their new Revotron engine.

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...ol-engine.html
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:32   #370
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
Higher tuned 1.2 with 100bhp may be possible (I hope). Didn't we read some pages prior or on some automotive news site, mention of the 1.2 Revotron 100bhp engine or people requesting for it (either of it)?
Yes, higher tuned 1.2L is quite possible. May be even more than 100BHP. Tata Motors' engineering head has gone on record saying that the 1.2L will be able to match the power figures of 1.6L engines.

Last edited by safari_lover : 5th February 2014 at 11:34.
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:38   #371
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Commendable job by Tata Motors. Good to see a home grown company taking big steps in every release. Comparing with first generation indica/go this is a vast improvement.

However, there is something in the design philosophy of TML which has consistently prevented them from getting a "WOW" from the customer when the step into a TATA showroom/car.
//going a bit OT here, but will get back//

1. Newer version is always an incremental change from the previous one. All said and done they have only 3 platforms on which all platforms are based on. Indica/go, Safari, Sumo. They made something with Aria but failed miserably.

2. quality of materials have been an issue. which is being improved in every release. But competition is improving too set the standards higher.

3. Large gaps everywhere. Panel gaps are improving. but gaps in wheel arches are unmissable. Even in the new BOLT and ZEST, there is a large unused area between AC controls, They have chosen a 5" LCD entertainment system and used small buttons/keys. which has left more of exposed plastic area unused. which is unappealing. This issue is there in Safari as well. Such a large dash, but no room for 2 din system?!

All these are old rants. What Tata might have missed is, whatever the improvement they have done so far could have been done on a new platform. May be Made an entry into higher segments.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:13   #372
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

If this the result of the short/medium term plans of Tata motors, which is very good, then I can hope that the results of the long term plans/strategy to be even better...
I for one have been always happy with the basic shape of the Indica. 12 years back when the first Indica was shown it was probably far better looking than any other hatchback. But they failed to improve upon further visually whereas the others caught up or exceeded them.
But the quality and fit and finish kept improving. In 2002 I got petrol Indica and my current car is a 2012 Vista which is far better put together 2012 is still tight and doesn't emit a single squeak or rattle.
But my service experience hasn't changed much and this probably would be biggest game changer for them... I know that efforts are on to change this by TML. But I am yet to experience the improvement.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:27   #373
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I see most people going gaga over the new releases from Tata Motors.
While I do agree that it is indeed a huge leap forward for Tata motors, the competition has also moved up in the last few years when Tata Motors was sleeping.
Would like to elaborate about 'the competition has moved up' concept? None of the current premium hatchbacks are offering the features introduced in the Bolt, such as projector headlamps, eco/sports mode, and a turbo-charged petrol engine completely made in India, and many more first time in the segment. When the new Swift was launched, no one complained about it being 80% similar to the old generation Swift. IMHO, the interiors of the Bolt and the Zest are miles ahead of both Brio and Amaze and Liva and Etios.
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Old 5th February 2014, 13:00   #374
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
Would like to elaborate about 'the competition has moved up' concept? None of the current premium hatchbacks are offering the features introduced in the Bolt, such as projector headlamps, eco/sports mode, and a turbo-charged petrol engine completely made in India, and many more first time in the segment. When the new Swift was launched, no one complained about it being 80% similar to the old generation Swift. IMHO, the interiors of the Bolt and the Zest are miles ahead of both Brio and Amaze and Liva and Etios.
What I meant by that was that it is simply not enough for Tata Motors to improve a lot on their existing offerings (which indeed they have done) but what is important is it how it fares with the rest of the competition which is getting hotter day by day.

Did you read the last part of my post where I mentioned the same features you talk about being the USP?
Anyway, we neither know all the features of the car not the pricing and positioning. Do we know if the Bolt will be pitted against Brio or Jazz, I10 or I20? That makes a whole lot of difference!

Secondly, tata motors have historically launched cars without proper QA and the first lots have always had issues. I am skeptical about these cars giving niggle-free ownership particularly with all these new tech on board. I feel there is still a long way to go for Tata motors before they catch up with the best global companies like a Honda or Toyota in this regard.

Comparison with Swift is pointless as the previous gen Swift was the market leader for many years and redefined the hatchback segment. So, what worked for Maruti won't have worked for Tata Motors and I am glad that they have put in lot of hard work and come up with a fresh design.

About the 1.2 turbo petrol engine, yes its really nice of Tata to come up with one. But do we know how it drives? How is the refinement or FE? Does it have any reliability issues? Why is the power output so low, even lower than some of the naturally aspirated 1.2l petrol engines? What pedigree Tata motors has when it comes to developing indigenous engines, particularly petrol? And it really doesn't matter to me as a customer whether the engine is made in India or not. What matters is how it performs.

In conclusion, I am glad that Tata Motors have shown such a huge leap forward but I am skeptical about their ability to provide a niggle-free ownership experience particularly for the initial set of buyers. So, I personally, won't buy any of these at least not in the initial phase. I would wait at least for an year or so, listen to the market feedback before plonking my hard-earned money on this.

Last edited by adimicra : 5th February 2014 at 13:03.
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Old 5th February 2014, 13:06   #375
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Post Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo *EDIT* Now unvei

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
What I meant by that was that it is simply not enough for Tata Motors to improve a lot on their existing offerings (which indeed they have done) but what is important is it how it fares with the rest of the competition which is getting hotter day by day.
Hi Adimicra, but could you explain what you did mean by competition has moved on? It will help us understand and compare on a level playing field. QC, based on historic data, is an inherent problem with TM, yes.

What I'm trying to understand is apart from QC and maybe service, what avenues are these 2 Tata cars lacking in, which competition seems to have made better?
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