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Old 6th December 2013, 14:39   #46
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
While the intent to bring driver focus is good, but I think the interpretation of a car that is engaging to drive maybe a little off the track. Whilst Steering thickness, gearshift knob feel is definitely important, what is far more important is how the gears shift between its cogs, how the steering feels, communicates, weighs up. This is where manufacturers that are known for making fun-to-drive cars, spend most of their time and energy on.

Mainly suspension tuning and design, choosing the right linkage angles, right length arms, the right bushing, and lastly spring rates, damper parameters. One drive of a recent Tata car and its immediately apparent that the suspension has only been made to smoothen out potholes, with no intention to communicate through the steering. For the records, I have driven fun to drive cars with eroded steering and a missing gearknob, but still the old rusty E30 BMW maintained that its still quite driver focussed and very very engaging to drive.
Of course. But the fact that Tata Motors is speaking this language is an important change in itself, IMHO. Let's wait and see what do they have to offer. February is not too far away anyways.
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Old 6th December 2013, 15:10   #47
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Same classis platform, same engine platform. It looks more like a refresh and not a new car. Same body lines, similar smiling grill but beauttiful headlights and different tail-lights. If the Xeta petrol was never a good motor, how will its turbo charged variant be. Please dont bring the Linea Tjet and regular Linea petrol as both a market duds for all discussed reasons.

Tata is just trying its best to survice until the RnD comes out with a brand new product with completely new chassis and engine to compete with the market leaders.
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Old 6th December 2013, 15:43   #48
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

No offense here, but I don't think that TATA is bringing out new models JUST for survival.

Now, I agree that Indica, Vista, Manza or Xeta, are by no means are enthusiast cars, but they have excellent sitting space, and I suppose are cheap to maintain.
And that is why we see a lots and lots of Indica (Vista, Xeta and the Indigo as well) as tourist vehicles.
Now these people do not use the service center as much as a private vehicle owner does. They and their cars survive on the common Indian jugad method (and that's why the services remain of shoddy quality for a private vehicle as well). Because there are more public Tata cars than private.

Tata motors also owns JLR, which is making high volume of profit, not only in India but globally.

The Falcon, may or may not be a good product. But it definitely is a step towards improvement for Tata Motors in our local market. And we should all remember that the Indica Vista is much better as compared to the 1st Gen Indica.
Its a slow but good progress for a heavy vehicle manufacturer, stepping into small car segment.
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Old 11th December 2013, 15:21   #49
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Originally Posted by iamahunter View Post
No offense here, but I don't think that TATA is bringing out new models JUST for survival.
My thoughts are similar. To me Tata does not have a magic formula in their current line-up of cars. So, they will need to start a revolution and not be content with the eventual evolution. The R&D team at Tata should be taking all their knowledge, shake things up and come up with something new and radicle. Also, hope they don't name it the Indica or Indigo.

The prime focus should still be on QUALITY and SERVICE. With these measures the brand name will improve over time. Lets hope the Falcon is able to achieve for Tata.
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Old 21st December 2013, 00:50   #50
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Originally Posted by iamahunter View Post
Now these people do not use the service center as much as a private vehicle owner does. They and their cars survive on the common Indian jugad method (and that's why the services remain of shoddy quality for a private vehicle as well). Because there are more public Tata cars than private.
Very true.
I have said this time and again in various forums and would re-iterate... Tata cannot improve sales unless it improves service. Look what's happening to VW-Skoda combine, and what happened to Fiat when they were in tie-up with Tata Motors.
The other reason is again, the predominance of yellow boards. That is more difficult to evade. The only solution to that, as I have again said before that Tata needs a complimenting brand for selling private cars. If TML sells Nano, Indica and Indigo, plus the CVs, and lets the other badge sell the Falcons and the other cars targetted at private buyers. It is the most logical conclusion, and TML has dormant brands under JLR flagship that it can use (someone mentioned it somewhere). I really hope Karl Slym is listening.
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Old 21st December 2013, 10:30   #51
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Originally Posted by IndiFuture
The other reason is again, the predominance of yellow boards. That is more difficult to evade. The only solution to that, as I have again said before that Tata needs a complimenting brand for selling private cars.
I would agree with that, there is big space between JLR and TML passenger cars. Such a complimenting brand will do more good to the group. But at the sametime we cannot really predict how an average car buyer will react to a new brand from Tata.
There is one more point to be noted, internationally too they need a volumes brand so that it helps them increase the R&D spending of the group. Something similar to what VW do to Audi and Bentley.
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Old 24th December 2013, 10:06   #52
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Tata is testing the 2014 Tata Vista facelift (codenamed the Falcon 4) in Turin, Italy.
On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-2014tatavistafalcon4italyspiedside.jpg

On the Tata Bolt Hatchback-2014tatavistafalcon4italyspiedrear.jpg

Quote:

The taillights, though uncamouflaged, are simply dummy units. However,the bootlid of this car (which has a different cutout to accommodate the redesigned taillights) is production approved. Apart from the new taillights, previous spyshots have revealed that Tata will move the registration plate enclosure from the bumper to the bootlid.

Previous reports have indicated that Tata Motor’s European Design Center is responsible for redesigning the new Vista. While it will continue to use the same platform as the existing car, Tata’s marketeers are reported to ditch the ‘Indica’ and ‘Vista’ names, and this car is expected to be launched with a new name.
http://www.quattroruote.it/notizie/f...vista-a-torino

Last edited by volkman10 : 24th December 2013 at 10:13.
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Old 24th December 2013, 10:44   #53
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Tata is testing the 2014 Tata Vista facelift (codenamed the Falcon 4) in Turin, Italy.
Quote:
Tata’s marketeers are reported to ditch the ‘Indica’ and ‘Vista’ names, and this car is expected to be launched with a new name.
http://www.quattroruote.it/notizie/f...vista-a-torino
Finally, somebody at Tata's got this very innovative idea of not to name next Indica an Indica. Incredible. The most needed change since long back, is most welcomed Tata.

Can anybody clarify what is there on second pic - a rear spoiler? (Please note the abruptly ending hanging ends) or it's just a camouflage to hide/spoil the actual rear design elements?
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Old 24th December 2013, 11:11   #54
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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A quick Google translation gives additional details of the story...
Key points:
This will be marketed in Italy - 1.4 Petrol and Bifuel versions

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A prototype derived from the Tata Indica Vista was photographed in Turin . The spy photos collected by our photographer Alberto Damiano are related , in particular, with a copy delivered directly to Fiat and is identified as a possible facelift version of the car , also marketed in Italy only in the 1.4-liter petrol variant and bi-fuel .

Collaborations . Equipped with Italian plate test but right-hand drive , the view is disguised and proposes some novel solutions for bumpers and headlights . Its presence in Turin is important, however, especially from the commercial point of view : the agreements between the two industry groups were in fact " cooled " after the decision by Fiat to build a network of independent sales in India , while keeping intact the joint venture production plant in Ranjangaon models Linea and Punto.

Engines to date. The Indica Vista is already marketed in India with engines 1.3 MJet 75 and 90 hp Fiat , dubbed Quadrajet . The updating of the model and the likely transition to newer versions of the engine, both for power and for compliance could be tested by the Italian manufacturer , thus confirming future supplies to Tata and the continuation of the agreements. L.Cor .
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Old 24th December 2013, 16:13   #55
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Can anybody clarify what is there on second pic - a rear spoiler? (Please note the abruptly ending hanging ends) or it's just a camouflage to hide/spoil the actual rear design elements?
That space would be filled up by black plastic to do away with the out-of-fashion X'mas tree tail lights.
PS: Not the most appropriate of posts on a Christmas eve though
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Old 24th December 2013, 23:33   #56
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A ray of hope, RavenAvi just pointed out to a link to an Interview of the Design Head of TaMo. :

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
The Head of Design of Tata Motors, Pratap Bose, has revealed that the Falcon 4 will have a new "Human Machine Interface" (HMI). He says that it will "change the way people interact with cars"....

Quote:
"As we developed and designed the car, we retained some of the elements and added some features that are completely new. For instance, the interior is much more driver focused. It's about the pleasure of driving, the way we have designed the layout of the dashboard, feel of the knob and gearshift--they are all linked to that intrinsic product strength. The gear shift knob has been tested on 50-60 people to see it's the right feel and have then come up with optimal solution. The thickness and feel of the steering wheel also has been tested extensively—internally and externally.

The Falcon will have new HMI (human machine interface) systems, and change the way people interact with cars. Second, it is important to package the engines and other aggregates in a compelling way. We are well placed to confront some of those challenges. Buying is becoming an emotional decision. In cars, it is possible to differentiate with what one sees and interacts with. I call it visual performance: Is someone excited seeing the car?"
Bose, who is credited with past designs such as the Pixel, Mega Pixel and Manza Hybrid, says that the Falcon would be his first production program. Bose concludes the interview stating that the Falcon draws several features from higher segment models.

Detailed interview (and SOURCE) - http://www.livemint.com/Companies/jQ...ot-faster.html
The link says it all, but I guess the HMI would be a game changer for Indian Auto Industry. Another field where TATA takes a pioneering step ahead.
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Old 25th December 2013, 11:58   #57
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

What's the point camouflaging the sides on the mule if there aren't any sheet metal changes?

This will be a matured Indica, that's for sure. Maybe one of the best of it's kind till date. But come on, the Indica brand has become painfully boring in the face of fresh artillery from other players.
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Old 25th December 2013, 12:11   #58
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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What's the point camouflaging the sides on the mule if there aren't any sheet metal changes?

This will be a matured Indica, that's for sure. Maybe one of the best of it's kind till date. But come on, the Indica brand has become painfully boring in the face of fresh artillery from other players.
Completely agree with you here. Way back in 1999, when I first saw the indica, it had an aspirational value (sort of); 14 years down the line, it still looks the same? Giving it some gizmos wont make it any hot seller.

Having said this, Vista is the most most comfortable car for long distance commutes; so on all my journeys, I ensure that I hire a Vista only.
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Old 25th December 2013, 12:44   #59
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
A ray of hope, RavenAvi just pointed out to a link to an Interview of the Design Head of TaMo. :



The link says it all, but I guess the HMI would be a game changer for Indian Auto Industry. Another field where TATA takes a pioneering step ahead.
Its not the lack of ideas that have pulled down Tata in the past, it the way they implemented it and marketed it. They pioneered several trends that defined the Indian automotive industry even in the past and showed that there was potential, but it was others like Maruti/Mahindra/Hyundai who actually improved upon these ideas and made it redefine the scene.
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Old 25th December 2013, 13:13   #60
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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Its not the lack of ideas that have pulled down Tata in the past, it the way they implemented it and marketed it. They pioneered several trends that defined the Indian automotive industry even in the past and showed that there was potential, but it was others like Maruti/Mahindra/Hyundai who actually improved upon these ideas and made it redefine the scene.
I think Karl can ensure its executed it very well. Remember the Horizonext concept launch, (Link : ) and this was JUST for a facelift, an actual launch would surely be quite an event!

It was so impressive, even BMW took que and recently launched an SUV in a similar way. (Link : ).

I think they'll be more careful this time wrt positioning it in the market, and I guess we've all have across recent reports of people being quite satisfied with the servicing they're offering, so I doubt they'll mess up the implementation.
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