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Old 28th December 2013, 19:36   #61
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

From the looks of all the test mules it seems clear that the Falcon may be a refreshed Vista, mild on the outside maybe major from inside.

Given that the Vista/ Manza are intrensically decent products with good comfort factors, any improvement is welcome.

Also the much touted Manza CS could be a great addition to the line up.
Having said that calling it a new car would be streatching it too far.

Also hopefully the old skins might be a camoflage by itself and may bring out updated metals in the production version. Have to see.

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Old 29th December 2013, 00:13   #62
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

After all that talk, the test mules still look like existing Vista. If the body panels of the test mule are same as that of the final production version, then irrespective of old names being refreshed or not, they still don't look appealing. Sad considering I was expecting something radical from Tata since Slym's appointment to TM.

Last edited by k_ajay : 29th December 2013 at 00:14.
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Old 29th December 2013, 05:04   #63
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

The car needs a completely new design to get anyone interested. Had Tata Motors managed to a decent Indica over the first four or five years, sticking with its design design would make sense. Now, even if officials claim that the Falcon is all-new, it doesn't matter. Most people will still look at it as "just another Indica".
This is no 911 or Range Rover to retain the original shape.
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Old 2nd January 2014, 19:47   #64
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Karl Slym, Managing Director of Tata Motors hints on a new petrol engine for forthcoming releases, could debut in Falcon 4 and later in and Falcon 5 (Manza based compact sedan) models.

Quote:
we are all set to bring in completely new range of cars, with an all-new petrol engine that we believe will challenge some of the existing status quo in the passenger car industry.
Tata’s new petrol powerplant is likely to be a turbocharged unit displacing about 1.2-liters. Early reports cited that this engine would output close to 100 bhp, though Tata is yet to reveal further details.


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Old 3rd January 2014, 09:54   #65
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Is it not possible that Falcon is an all new shape whose identity is being kept a closely guarded secret as was the case with original Indica and Nano? The Autocar report cited in the first post in this thread suggests that Falcon has been designed in Europe and would have no resemblance to any existing Tata product. The pics in this thread only show a refreshed Vista.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 10:56   #66
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

With cars like this which eventually are a tuck and nip job, TM are not doing themselves any favour.

With Karl Slym on board, was execting something better.

Moreover, Karl has also not been succeesful in reversing the general perception per se of TM i.e of a company having major niggling issues for its products.

With the Falcon, I only feel the below would be achieved:

1) Placement of the speedo console in its correct location
2) Some changes in the grille
3) Minor changes in the rear lamp console, the christmas tree set up goes and is probably replaced by an ugly black strip!!

This wont sell!!!
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Old 3rd January 2014, 11:53   #67
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

I don't think the test mules we see today are of the new Vista / XYZ that it will be called. I think Tata is testing the new engine and other components in the current Vista.

I think the overall dimensions and design will be similar to Punto and we will have a more curvy hatchback being launched.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 23:14   #68
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Is it not possible that Falcon is an all new shape whose identity is being kept a closely guarded secret as was the case with original Indica and Nano? The Autocar report cited in the first post in this thread suggests that Falcon has been designed in Europe and would have no resemblance to any existing Tata product. The pics in this thread only show a refreshed Vista.
I also personally think so. Scoop pictures does not match the quotes from the designer as well as Slim. I have a feeling new Falcon based one will NOT be available this year, mean time we will get a face lifted Vista, and the new vehicle components are being validated/tested on the refresh model. I pray that is the case!
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Old 4th January 2014, 11:23   #69
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
I also personally think so. Scoop pictures does not match the quotes from the designer as well as Slim. I have a feeling new Falcon based one will NOT be available this year, mean time we will get a face lifted Vista, and the new vehicle components are being validated/tested on the refresh model. I pray that is the case!
As per following ACI report on 24th December, Falcon 4 (Hatchback) and Falcon 5 (Sedan) will be unveiled at the Auto Expo next month and will be launched only towards end of this year.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ns-368408.aspx

This means that post Auto Expo, we will get to see the real mules of these cars undergoing extensive test for next 6-8 months before launch. Given that replacements are in the horizon, I don't expect Tata to launch a face lift version of Vista.

Having said that, Overdrive has just released an article with interiors of new Vista. The article says that while Tata claims the cars are all new, the silhouette has not changed. Falcon 4 will continue to follow a similar design structure as the current Vista. This would be a disappointment as even after changing the name, people will continue to associate the new cars with Vista and Manza.

http://overdrive.in/news/spied-how-t...ors-look-like/
Attached Images
 

Last edited by damager21 : 4th January 2014 at 11:38.
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Old 4th January 2014, 11:39   #70
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by damager21 View Post
As per following ACI report on 24th December, Falcon 4 (Hatchback) and Falcon 5 (Sedan) will be unveiled at the Auto Expo next month and will be launched only towards end of this year.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ns-368408.aspx

This means that post Auto Expo, we will get to see the real mules of these cars undergoing extensive test for next 6-8 months before launch. Given that replacements are in the horizon, I don't expect Tata to launch a face lift version of Vista.
You never know with the Tatas. It has been over 3 years of spotting the test mules after which Storme was launched and then rumors of Nano diesel being scrapped, at least not for the Auto Expo. Even if the so-called Falcon will be show-cased at the Auto Expo, there is no guarantee that the products will be launched by year-end.

I have heard a lot about the dies being very expensive and hence the Tatas are not about to launch many cars. Come on! Look at how many hatchs Maruti, Hyundai, and even Chevrolet have. And Tata? A Nano, an Indica, and an Indica+ Vista. If Chevrolet can have Spark+Beat+Sail, surely Tatas could have done much better. Now, they are royally struggling behind Maruti+Hyundai+Mahindra+Honda+Toyota+Ford if we look at Hatch+Sedan. Forget about launching new products, Tatas are now struggling at launching test mules itself.
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Old 4th January 2014, 12:21   #71
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Tataís new petrol powerplant is likely to be a turbocharged unit displacing about 1.2-liters. Early reports cited that this engine would output close to 100 bhp, though Tata is yet to reveal further details.

I wonder which lineage the engine is from, While the odds are that it should be a cut down T Jet -I'm having trouble believing fiat would let Tata launch it first, and if tata developed it on it's own, that they would put an untested engine in a flagship car
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Old 4th January 2014, 19:55   #72
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Default Quadrajet CS is the key

Diesel hatchback market is already overcrowded, and Petrol market is still limited.
They should mainly focus compact sedan market with a VFM product, again this market is also not very easy considering VFM pricing of Amaze, but still there is a scope.

As a potential buyer in mid-2014, I donít have any doubts about a.) Space b.)Engine/refinement for diesel engine (Fiat sourced) c.) Features (TATA is normally generous) d.) Interior quality (Donít expect Hyundai class, but still TATA has reached to certain level in Manza/Vista/Storme)

I donít expect drastic improvement in build quality e.g. panel gapes, but still I can leave with Vista/Manza level.

Only key factor would be pricing.

There are many customers like me who won't mind buying a TATA product but if similar products from TATA and Honda are at similar prices, choice will be Honda.

Also personally I believe they should not even try to compete with Honda in Petrol engine space.
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Old 5th January 2014, 11:34   #73
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

What TATA's need is to inject some zing into their product's. Currently none of their products, except the Safari to some extent, make an emotional connect with the buyer's, until that happens, customer's will always consider buying a Tata car a compromise. They need to change the mindset of the people from ' I am buying a Tata car as a compromise' to 'I want to buy a Tata car.' They need to design the exteriors & interiors in a way that it connect's with people emotionally. All this, of course, will take time and cost money but both these investments will pay off in the long run.

The first thing they need to do is push the Indian attitude of 'jugaad' out. Many of us, including some foreigner's, think the jugaad philosophy is our strength as it equates to frugal engineering. This maybe true in the past but off late jugaad is turning into the typical Indian mentality of knowingly taking short cuts that we know will eventually fail. We still do it though simply because it gives us short term gains.
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Old 5th January 2014, 14:05   #74
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

I dont know if what we see here is the F a l c o n 4/5 or not. However what is clear is that this is a deep facelift of the V i s t a (deep because the dashboard has been significantly modified - this is not generally done as the process is not only very time consuming but also expensive). The product is most likely a stopgap till they come up with a new lineup of vehicles with their new design language.

There are many emotional statements on this thread. We need to understand that however much Mr. S l y m may want to deliver, there is no way a new vehicle (of any size / complexity) can be developed in the timeframe that he has been at the helm. The forum members need to grant him that much atleast. From the period of assuming charge to the state of production readiness planned for the F a l c o n, if he is able to deliver the models to the market (1.5 yrs) with such a deep facelift, that would be a commendable job at par with industry norms for simple facelift (bonnet, grille, bumper, tailgate and lights without external profile change), from a comapny that has been virtually comatose in the passenger vehicle space.

Regarding silhouette. Please understand that a change in silhouette is possible only if the side body (outer + inner panels) are changed. This is a huge design decision, engineering challenge, costly and time consuming affair. There is no way to accomplish this in 1.5 years! Minimum time required is 2.5~3 yrs, with all the financial and engineering resources of Toyota, Honda et al.

Even if they maintain the same platform, it would still be another 2 years from now, before they are able to fully introduce fresh products with their new design language in place. I personally believe they are working in this direction.

A couple of months ago on a visit to another asian country, I met a vendor who had submitted quotations to this company for tailgate, bonnet, sidebody and roof as a package in response to their R F Q. The timing of the event is in line with vehicle introduction plan for 2015! The F a l c o n is probably an indicator of the future design language of this company with elements being incorporated. The real new products will probably flow 2015 onwards. I dont know if this is late or too late or whatever, but there is absolutely no way to compress this timeframe.

PS : I dont own any of their automotive products. The views are entirely personal. I work in the OEM automobile industry.

Last edited by aditya79india : 5th January 2014 at 14:12.
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Old 5th January 2014, 18:59   #75
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

I think the biggest mistake that TATA would make was to launch a new car which looks similar to Vista & Manza and give it a new name.

If what you are saying is indeed the case that these new cars will pave the way for fresh products in 2015, then I would continue to badge these cars as Vista & Manza because inspite of all the investment and efforts, people will not believe that these are new cars if packaging from outside was to be the same.

Just see whats happening with Honda. They created a huge hype in media that the all new City will be launched in India. What we got to see was indeed a new City loaded with new features, but people are refusing to call it all new City. For them its just a face-lift.
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