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Old 30th January 2014, 14:30   #121
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by chittybang View Post
Its funny that TATA keeps talking about the car of the future and sadly by the time they enter the market it looks like something from the past...
AFAIK they were the first company to take to the sub 4m platform with the Indigo CS with those 25kmpl FE ads. Its just that auto enthusiasts took notice abit late, i.e. after Maruti shortened its Swift Dzire to a sub 4m car. Swift sold crazily even though it had a weird boot, with a joke in the name of bootspace (316L), with just 75PS, compared to competing Manza which has a 460L boot + longer wheelbase and 90PS, and later even the club class cars with touch screen multimedia infotainment & GPS. - "Segment First" AFAIK
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...by the time they enter the market it looks like something from the past
This generalisation doesn't hold, moreover they've been the pioneer in MOST of the segments - at quite VFM prices too.

IMO the one and only seemingly GENUINE complaint of people was that the A.S.S. were incompetent and very much cheating people. That was/is NOT acceptable - no matter how good the car, when it has an issue, the service center SHOULD help people, NOT cheat them.

Else, their cars are fantastic, and even feature-wise very well advanced.

Quote:
...keeping the present in mind and staying relevant with the competition but surely some of these updates seem like they were decided over the office water cooler.
Don't understand why you'd blow them off with the above comment.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 30th January 2014 at 14:34.
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Old 30th January 2014, 15:50   #122
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Hi @GrammarNazi

I agree with all your comments in the above post. However, your reference to Manza is not fair. Just to put across few figures in an unbiased manner, I would like to point out few details for all:

Boot Space
Dzire - 316L
Indigo eCS - 380L
New Sail - 380L
Amaze - 380L + 20L Magic Boot (intelligent packaging)
Esteem - 340L
Old Fiesta - 440L

IMO barring for the technical jargon associated with a reputed Jap (Honda Amaze) & some good numbers, there is nothing Amazing with the Honda even. There are problems with hard gearshift, coarse engine note (which does not sounds Honda-ish), tinny build & thin seats that will sure fail the occupant in whiplash test.

Tata had done better job earlier with the Indigo CS, only if it could get its due & their QC/ A.S.S. a kink in a**. Even today, Japs are scared to bring their turbo petrol engines in India & their strength relies on borrowed diesel tech. Tata have developed own turbo petrol mill with different power output (& a flatter torque curve) that they will launch in the Bolt & new Manza (Falcon 5), much like the VW. Tata should have been praised for the effort, but many people are making of the 85ps tuning for the Falcon 4.

I do not think foreign manufacturers are much different to Indians, & the Indians are much under-rated by Indians, despite having similar & even more issues with these brands.
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Old 31st January 2014, 12:41   #123
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
This generalization doesn't hold, moreover they've been the pioneer in MOST of the segments - at quite VFM prices too.
Don't understand why you'd blow them off with the above comment.
I wasn't intending to generalize. My statement was only regarding the falcons and their facebook sneak peak. I got the feeling that TATA was building up the case too strong and in the end all we will get is a Manza CS, which according to me should have arrived long back before Amaze. Also I have very high regard for TATA as a brand. I agree they have been pioneers in creating segments. I truly don't want to brush them aside but it is also true that this Horizon next has not shown any serious updates so far. Adding Graphics and some very after market fittings don't seem like updates. I am merely showing my disappointment in what could have been a smart move to keep the models relevant till the true upgrades arrive.

Last edited by chittybang : 31st January 2014 at 12:41. Reason: correction
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Old 31st January 2014, 15:30   #124
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by chittybang View Post
I wasn't intending to generalize. My statement was only regarding the falcons and their facebook sneak peak. I got the feeling that TATA was building up the case too strong and in the end all we will get is a Manza CS, which according to me should have arrived long back before Amaze. Also I have very high regard for TATA as a brand. I agree they have been pioneers in creating segments. I truly don't want to brush them aside but it is also true that this Horizon next has not shown any serious updates so far. Adding Graphics and some very after market fittings don't seem like updates. I am merely showing my disappointment in what could have been a smart move to keep the models relevant till the true upgrades arrive.
OK

But please recheck the Horizonext updates. The Indigo eCS gear got a cable shift "update" - a little more than some chrome sticker job I'd say. Many other such updates. Do check out.

You want updates, many weren't even asking for that! They just wanted an honest & competent A.S.S., thats where TATA failed. Although it was a while ago, that image stuck and while others sales surged, TATAs sales plummeted. Once their recoveries slowed down, they would've found it financially difficult to reinvest. Thus, their cars are just growing older. Any serious design updates will only be after 2016. Don't know much about the Falcon 4 Bolt as yet though.

Moreover, I've personally seen NO remorse among TATA dealers for whats recently happened. Now that the person key in making those systemic changes has gone, they maybe feeling relieved. Who knows how things with A.S.S. will turn for Tata customers now. The question remains, will the A.S.S. find ways to beat the system, or will they stay clean?

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 31st January 2014 at 15:32.
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Old 31st January 2014, 16:15   #125
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Why TATA is soooooo obsessed with that hideous design language??? . Looking at over all quality and design of the current TATA cars, they are at least 5-10 years behind competition. I was hoping to see some fresh looks for this "F" series and going through the spy shots, its evident that some people never learn !
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Old 1st February 2014, 01:08   #126
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Going by the visually attractive images Tata Motors has got for the F4 & F5 (that I saw on FB) and with some spy shots claiming it's the Bolt, it's probably safe to say that either TM is going to deliver a bomb or bomb themselves.

With all their snazzy online media efforts, I want to think it will be the former. But let's see.
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Old 1st February 2014, 01:44   #127
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OK. This is from a Tata insider. The f4 has the same side profile as the Vista. The front headlights resemble the safari storme, while the rear taillight gets rid of the Xmas tree. F4 is essentially a completely face-lifted Vista with no sheet metal changes.

The f5 though is a completely different car from the manza. It has better lines and Tata has worked on the car completely.

I have another secret but that will wait till tomorrow. Think shift.
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Old 1st February 2014, 12:26   #128
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

The creative agency working on the content for F4 & F5 have really done a very good job. I love the videos they have shot for F4.

What is evident and coming out very strongly from these videos and images uploaded on their Facebook page is that Tata is targeting youth. Things like Joy, Connectivity and Design are the highlights which should appeal to youth.

More than the outside, I would want to know what's inside the car for everyone. My guess is that F4 and F5 will offer:
- 5" touchscreen display with navigation and reverse camera integrated
- Multiple format music compatible system including iPod dock
- Bluetooth connectivity
- Rain sensing wipers and auto headlamps
- Keyless entry
- Push start button
- Multiple charging slots
- New suspensions for better ride comfort
- Rear AC vents
- Multi function display (Trip computer)
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Old 1st February 2014, 12:33   #129
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
I have another secret but that will wait till tomorrow. Think shift.
Automatic Manual Transmission to be launched on the F5? I remember Hormazd Sorabjee of AutocarIndia mentioning it in one of the podcasts.
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Old 1st February 2014, 12:39   #130
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by djpeesh View Post
OK. This is from a Tata insider. The f4 has the same side profile as the Vista. The front headlights resemble the safari storme, while the rear taillight gets rid of the Xmas tree. F4 is essentially a completely face-lifted Vista with no sheet metal changes.

The f5 though is a completely different car from the manza. It has better lines and Tata has worked on the car completely.

I have another secret but that will wait till tomorrow. Think shift.
F5 could be a game changer for Tata, if only they have worked on making the car look like a car and not like a car with the rear of a truck.
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:48   #131
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

The new clutch and gearshift feel of the Indigo eCS which was launched at the Horizonnext image is definately a big improvement.

Only those who have driven the updated car can understand. The gear shift is feather light and so is the clutch. In fact the Nano twist also has a super light clutch now.
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Old 1st February 2014, 20:16   #132
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

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Originally Posted by fx45 View Post
The new clutch and gearshift feel of the Indigo eCS which was launched at the Horizonnext image is definately a big improvement.

Only those who have driven the updated car can understand. The gear shift is feather light and so is the clutch. In fact the Nano twist also has a super light clutch now.
That's right. There are many other additions in the eCS that have made it a much better car than its predecessors.
For Rs.7.66 lacs, on road, for the VX trim that offers alloy wheels, ABS, clutch depressed start, immobilizer, better gearshift and suspension, easy-to-operate steering wheel, and not to mention the 3 years of insurance payment holiday, 4 years of extended warranty, 4 years of AMC, how much more can a "value for money" definition be stretched?
Atleast I'm happy with our purchase decision.
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Old 1st February 2014, 20:48   #133
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

+1 to that.... I had a Indica Turbo DLS for 5 years and then now own the Tata Manza Club Class VX Qjet90.. Its been 7 Months of pure joy whiel driving the Tata Manza.. Before I brought the Manza and decided on it I did a review of every car in this segment and truly found this to be THE BEST OFFERING IN ITS CLASS!

I wonder why we as Indian's can't appreciate the efforts put in by an Indian Company in providing a Top Class Car at true VFM.

Remember we should be proud that its the first Indian Company to go an acquire World Class Car Companies..

Must be the snob value associated that makes people look down upon a TATA CAR!

The truth is that many people die with envy when they see a Happy Tata owner and I can tell you from the past 6 years fo owning a Tata Car is that the cost of ownership is ridiculously low....

Cheers to Tata and I hope the new offerings are lapped up by we Indian's even quicker than any other car..


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Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
That's right. There are many other additions in the eCS that have made it a much better car than its predecessors.
For Rs.7.66 lacs, on road, for the VX trim that offers alloy wheels, ABS, clutch depressed start, immobilizer, better gearshift and suspension, easy-to-operate steering wheel, and not to mention the 3 years of insurance payment holiday, 4 years of extended warranty, 4 years of AMC, how much more can a "value for money" definition be stretched?
Atleast I'm happy with our purchase decision.

Last edited by Technocrat : 2nd February 2014 at 02:47. Reason: Only 2 smilies allowed per post, please read forum rules before proceeding further. Thanks
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Old 1st February 2014, 23:12   #134
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Tata Nexon compact SUV concept for Auto Expo 2014

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Feb 1, 2014
Tata Motors will unveil an all-new SUV concept called ‘Nexon’ at the Auto Expo 2014 next month. Based on the X1 platform which also underpins the Vista and now the new ‘Falcon’ family, the Nexon is a sub-4 metre Ecosport rival which the company hopes to bring to the market by 2015.

Tata Motors has been completely absent in the compact SUV segment and with the Nexon, the company hopes to cash in on one of the fastest growing segments in the market. Though the Nexon is still in a concept stage, it will showcase Tata Motors new design language for its future range of cars.

Powetrain options are likely to be a 100bhp, 1.2 turbo-petrol from Tata’s recently launched Revotron engine family and an all-new diesel which the company is developing in-house.

The Nexon is likely to be showcased at the Geneva show as well in March 2014.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:41   #135
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Default Re: Tata Falcon hatchback, compact saloon to debut at 2014 Auto Expo

Tata Falcon compact sedan to be called the Tata "Zest", exclusively scooped by ACI.

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The Tata Zest will be showcased at the Auto Expo 2014 after its formal unveiling on February 3rd in New Delhi along with the Tata Bolt, its hatchback sibling.
Like the Tata Bolt, which is a re-designed Vista, the Tata Zest is a heavily face-lifted and sub-4 metre saloon version of the Manza.
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...st-371142.aspx

Last edited by RavenAvi : 2nd February 2014 at 10:42.
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