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Old 17th August 2015, 00:08   #886
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
^^

It seems that though the Aspire AT is having comparable power and similar dual clutch transmission as the Polo TSI, the difference in performance is pretty huge.

I think given the segment the Aspire is in, it will be more reasonable to compare the Aspire AT with the likes of Jazz CVT/Amaze ATXcent AT. If anyone has driven these cars, please let us know your views.
That's true but not every person buying a Polo GT TSI might be after performance. The Xcent AT, Dzire AT and Amaze AT are very very traditional gearboxes and the Jazz CVT is very dull as well.

If someone likes the Polo GT but the compromise on space and DSG reliability is too much, the Aspire is a good middle ground.

The Aspire uses a traditional naturally aspirated 1.5L mill which is not really cutting edge vs the turbo petrol direct injection VW with the 7 speed DSG. Then there's the DSG itself. The Ford's DCT has been tuned to be more for fuel efficiency and reliability. It has a tendency to coast to preserve clutch, even the shifts though quick are not as quick as the VW's.

But the Aspire DCT vs the Amaze, Dzire, Xcent, Jazz is leagues ahead when it comes to driving pleasure.
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Old 17th August 2015, 00:17   #887
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Ford has cleverly skipped some features and priced Aspire aggressively. It's a nice way to catch people's attention and bring them to showrooms.

Aspire is a full 120 kgs lighter in kerb weight than the Zest. The very reason many people commented on Aspire lighter doors and the reason why it's (build quality) not like the Ecosport.
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Old 17th August 2015, 08:32   #888
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

I took a test drive of 1.5 P AT and the 1.5 D Titanium.

First, it was the 1.5 AT. Test drive was through crowded roads and the DCT was cruising easily. Steering is light and weighed up gradually and it was well connected unlike Hyundai. On an empty stretch of Service Road, I floored the throttle both in D mode and S Mode at around 20 KMPH and the gear box felt massively confused. It revved high and the momentum was not there. I had taken a test drive of Polo GT TSi in the same route and Aspire AT was nowhere close in upshifts. It may not give you confidence to overtake on highways is what I felt. Ride quality was good with a firm thud over the potholes. The mobile holder kept my 5.5 inch phone well tucked and the controls were easy to use. AC was good too! Car had run only around 69 KMs and the fuel economy was showing up as 5.9KMPL in MID

Later, I took the 1.5D Titanium in the same route and the difference was remarkable! The gear throws are short and the torque is good to put a smile on your face. Excellent acceleration with hardly any lag felt (I use a 1.4 TDCi and a 1.3 DDiS VGT). Car felt peppy and the brakes were good. This car too had run around 60 KMs and the MID was showing fuel economy of 6.9 KMPL

Overall, 1.5 Diesel is a clear winner. However, if you weigh safety options and a bumper to bumper commute, 1.5 DCT at around 90K lesser price to Polo GT TSi (Bangalore) is worth a buy
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Old 17th August 2015, 10:25   #889
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Are we not going to have the Official Review for the Aspire?

Or is it in making?

I understand the time taken for the quality offered in the team bhp official reviews and also considering the slew of launches that happened over the last month.

Thanks.
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Old 17th August 2015, 10:37   #890
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
It has a tendency to coast to preserve clutch, even the shifts though quick are not as quick as the VW's.
Coasting (in neutral, I presume?) doesn't preserve the clutch, unless you're talking about coasting while braking, which would avoid a lot of downshifts. Coasting may save some fuel at really high speeds, but even that benefit is debatable and comes at the cost of immediate throttle responses.

Trivia: The BMW 328i (and others, I presume) coast when you're in Economy mode, but not in other modes.

Regular coasting in neutral while travelling on the highway can only increase clutch wear whenever the clutch has to be reengaged for acceleration.
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Old 17th August 2015, 10:46   #891
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
Coasting (in neutral, I presume?) doesn't preserve the clutch, unless you're talking about coasting while braking, which would avoid a lot of downshifts. Coasting may save some fuel at really high speeds, but even that benefit is debatable and comes at the cost of immediate throttle responses.

Trivia: The BMW 328i (and others, I presume) coast when you're in Economy mode, but not in other modes.

Regular coasting in neutral while travelling on the highway can only increase clutch wear whenever the clutch has to be reengaged for acceleration.
Yes and the debate never reached a conclusion. Read our review on the Fiesta DCT which has the same engine and gearbox. Only difference is that the Aspire offers a "S" mode and tip tronic whereas the Fiesta didn't.

Ideally based on traditional understanding you would think that coasting would result in idling which actually burns fuel vs the transmission engaged and engine running due to DFCO. With coasting you would actually get lower gas mileage.

Then why does the Ford box disengage and coast. My theory is to reduce transmission wear, maybe not of the clutch but overall transmission being disengaged.

This link has the discussion on Fiesta
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Old 17th August 2015, 13:54   #892
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Yes and the debate never reached a conclusion. Read our review on the Fiesta DCT which has the same engine and gearbox. Only difference is that the Aspire offers a "S" mode and tip tronic whereas the Fiesta didn't.

Ideally based on traditional understanding you would think that coasting would result in idling which actually burns fuel vs the transmission engaged and engine running due to DFCO. With coasting you would actually get lower gas mileage.

There are two things worth noting here:

1) Idling burns fuel, but coasting in gear reduces the distance to which you can go without any further fuel consumption. Also, the higher the RPM at which you are coasting, the higher the engine frictional losses.
So in the end, it comes down to which is higher - engine's internal frictional losses at a given RPM (in kW), or the power required to idle an engine. This delicate balance will change in the favor of or against coasting with different engines, RPMs, Transmissions & cruising speeds.

Think about it - you wouldn't decelerate in 2nd gear at 6000 RPM and expect that to save you fuel vs coasting in neutral, right?
The frictional losses will simply be too high!

Given that some cars like the 328i coast only in economy mode, it stands to reason that it can save fuel, at least in some scenarios.

2) Not all petrol cars can have fuel supply completely cut off during deceleration.
It's only the advanced "Direct injection" (also called stratified injection, in TSI) cars that can afford to completely cut off fuel supply while coasting, otherwise the AFR ratios will be too lean and will cause irreparable damage to conventional engines.

Since the Aspire is powered by a conventional petrol engine, I suspect that it will still be injecting some fuel while decelerating, and to avoid that extra fuel being spent, it chooses to coast instead of staying in gear to improve fuel economy. This can be easily verified with an OBD 2 scanner - if the fuel supplied doesn't go to zero while decelerating from a high RPM, that explains everything.

Of course, diesels don't have a lower limit on the AFRs and can run with zero fuel injection while coasting.

Anyway, this discussion is bordering on off-topic - so let's discuss in another thread, if anyone has more info to add.
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Old 17th August 2015, 14:19   #893
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
There are two things worth noting here:

1) Idling burns fuel, but coasting in gear reduces the distance to which you can go without any further fuel consumption. Also, the higher the RPM at which you are coasting, the higher the engine frictional losses.
So in the end, it comes down to which is higher - engine's internal frictional losses at a given RPM (in kW), or the power required to idle an engine. This delicate balance will change in the favor of or against coasting with different engines, RPMs, Transmissions & cruising speeds.

Think about it - you wouldn't decelerate in 2nd gear at 6000 RPM and expect that to save you fuel vs coasting in neutral, right?
The frictional losses will simply be too high!
2nd gear 6000rpm is only possible either in L mode or using manual mode. In other automatics, the minute you lift off the gas the transmission will upshift to highest possible ratio. So the transmission anyways doesn't downshift when coasting, it usually up shifts. Only in case of the Ford DCT it is coasting.

Quote:
Given that some cars like the 328i coast only in economy mode, it stands to reason that it can save fuel, at least in some scenarios.
I have not driven a 328i so I don't know what happens but in the merc GLA, A class , C class, E class, CLS and S class, they were pretty much upshifting to highest ratio in regular D mode. Only in S mode did they hold on to the gear and downshift when speeds reduce to ensure you are in the power band.

Quote:
Since the Aspire is powered by a conventional petrol engine, I suspect that it will still be injecting some fuel while decelerating, and to avoid that extra fuel being spent, it chooses to coast instead of staying in gear to improve fuel economy. This can be easily verified with an OBD 2 scanner - if the fuel supplied doesn't go to zero while decelerating from a high RPM, that explains everything.
Not completely sure on this. I had some issues with my Alto having jerks when releasing throttle and had connected the Maruti OBD scanner and remember seeing zero fuel when acc was released. Ofcourse this was not very high rpm'sbut normal driving.

The same thing was seen in my Corolla which had a behaviour of rev hang. I didn't know this was normal and asked for a scan and test drive with scanner. Upon releasing the acc pedal, the fuel would not get immediately but after a small lag. If you press the clutch then fuel would be injected and rev would actually go up by 200-400 rpm.

Did some research on Toyota forums and this is a known behaviour in Toyota and Honda with drive by wire.
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Old 17th August 2015, 23:08   #894
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

I guess this is the right thread to put this post [ or if the mods think otherwise, please move it to an appropriate place]

As my friend was scouting for a sub 10L Automatic, yesterday, I queried about the unavailability of the Jazz CVT in Hyderabad and in came a suggestion from "Vid6639" about the Aspire.
Following his advise, we decided to check it out and headed to the Vibrant Ford, Somajiguda, Hyderabad . FYI, most of the other dealers shut their shops on Sunday.

Even this one was about to be closed at 6 pm but I suppose these guys know how to make business and hence welcomed us when we made a call at around quarter to 6 to check if they were opened.
Once we got to the showroom, we were enlightened about the features of Aspire [ without any haste] and the Rep answered all the questions with patience.

And when we asked for a TD, he replied in an affirmative and went down to pickup the pass while calling for the driver. And unfortunately, there was only one driver available and even that guy got some emergency to attend and there went our plan into the garbage as the SA said that it was mandatory [ in their Dealership] for the Driver to hop in during any TD and he asked us whether he could bring the vehicle the next day to office. Fortunately, either our persuasive skills or their customer-centric approach worked out and when we asked the SA to check from his superior if there's any other way, the General Manager requested to wait for 10 minutes and got the Exchange Manager to accompany us to the Drive.

Here goes my view about the Car [ which might rather sound naive ] but the first thing that caught my attention is the ample leg room in the rear bench [ I am quite a heavy guy standing @ 5'11 ] and I found it roomy enough in the back with the Ingress and Egress comfortable.

While this was my first time driving an automatic, I felt it enjoyable though my hand, at times, involuntarily moved towards the gear to shift only to resist at the last second and the 1.5 L engine never felt lousy in the bumper-to-bumper traffic.
The ride was comparatively mature enough for its segment though not extraordinary. The TD was wholly in the city and short and thus cannot much talk about its performance but we came out of the car impressed.

The passenger seat also has tons of space to stretch legs and the ICE, though not extraordinary, is neither a deal-breaker.

The Aspire Automatic comes only in Titanium which means only 2 Airbags [ unlike the 6 of titanium+] but has all other safety features like ABS with EBD, ESP , traction control ...

The thumbs down were the bland or rather unattractive Rear and the puny tyres.

And in the end, my friend is quite positive about this, with the exorbitant pricing of the Polo Automatic and the lack of Jazz AT for a TD, the Aspire ticks all his needs and fits his budget. We discussed about a one more long TD and yet to decide the date.

Thanks to Vid6639 for drawing our attention to this car.

Some pictures [ quality is not too good as they are shot from camera in night]
Attached Thumbnails
Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire-20150816_185555_lls.jpg  

Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire-20150816_192130.jpg  

Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire-20150816_192053.jpg  

Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire-20150816_193924.jpg  


Last edited by poised2drive : 17th August 2015 at 23:32.
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Old 18th August 2015, 12:21   #895
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Does the top of the line Aspire come with Phone controls on the steering wheel ? I am currently shortlisting cars for my wife and its a tie between the Aspire and Elite i20. I would also wait for the new figo hatch to see if it can match up. If the features are identical to the Aspire, i will definitely go for it .
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Old 18th August 2015, 12:27   #896
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Quote:
Originally Posted by keshav1426 View Post
Does the top of the line Aspire come with Phone controls on the steering wheel ? I am currently shortlisting cars for my wife and its a tie between the Aspire and Elite i20. I would also wait for the new figo hatch to see if it can match up. If the features are identical to the Aspire, i will definitely go for it .
All variants except the lower most Trend variant comes with phone controls on steering.
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Old 18th August 2015, 20:26   #897
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Booked Titanium 1.5 Diesel variant (Sparkling Gold color) today with Talera Ford dealer at Yerwada , many booking's lined up for Ganesh Chaturthi delivery so fingers crossed and hope all goes well with other formalities of exchanging my Beat & closing finance deal over next few days.
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Old 18th August 2015, 21:43   #898
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Apart from the TD reports in this thread, I don't see an official review of the Aspire 1.5 AT from any of the automotive sites. Initially the assumption was that the AT launch would happen at a later date. But considering it has been launched, TD vehicles are available at dealerships and some deliveries have happened, strange to see that no official reviews are up yet.

Considering it a first in segment 1.5 engine + DCT, would have thought there would be tons of reviews and comparisons by now.

Any inside info from the Mods on this?
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Old 19th August 2015, 00:32   #899
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

Took a TD of Aspire TDCi today. Some quick thoughts.

1) I love what Ford has done with the engine. The TDCi is a proper all-rounder now. Excellent NVH, very drivable with no lag at all, rev happy and loads of usable torque across the rev range. The engine was pulling smoothly even after crossing 100 kmph in 5th. The car picks up quite well in second too. Lovely tweak by Ford.
2) The front seats were supportive and the car has excellent space both at the front and rear. Much more than the Fiesta at the rear.
3) The steering is okay. Not too light or unpredictable, but is sadly no fun.
4) And the Aspire feels very loose at the front unlike Fiesta which feels built from one solid block while going straight or changing directions.
5) Rides well though, absorbs the undulations on the road and was stable at speeds.
6) The build quality is nothing great. I could flex the metal on the doors with my fingers with ease which is not possible on the Fiesta.

The Titanium+ Diesel is 9.5L OTR and Titanium DCT is 9L OTR, which is good value. Overall, a very good car for the mass market.

Last edited by deetjohn : 19th August 2015 at 00:34. Reason: typo.
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Old 19th August 2015, 07:39   #900
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Default Re: Ford Figo-based compact sedan - The Aspire

^^
Now that's worrying, so Ford has learned from the others too! Sad that the adage if you can't beat them, join them is being put to practice. Deepak, do you know how Ford has increased the power output to 100? Can the same be done to Fiesta?
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