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Old 18th November 2013, 14:12   #31
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Originally Posted by harishpr View Post
Why blame VW ?? Unless government makes the mandate, no businessman would incur unnecessary loss.
If I or you were to head VM P&L in India, decision wouldn't be different.
It's like blaming the government when roads get flooded during monsoon, but we wouldn't vote or elect the right leader m
It's always someone else's problem, but benefit me.
That is the difference between an organisation that does things "correctly" and another that does things "right". I think it says something fundamental about the DNA of the organization. As an individual, I have the power, and I have exercised that to NOT buy the Polo GT TSI, however much I LOVED it. There is no technology to measure "lost revenue". But if VW top brass is worried about their (falling) market-share and stagnant sales, I urge them to look inward rather than blaming the immature market, price sensitive customer blah blah. PS- I noticed the Polo GT TDI ad talks about extended warranty and to my knowledge GT TSI still does not have it. QED.
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Old 18th November 2013, 15:35   #32
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

Was looking to replace my Swift petrol with the Polo TSI. But seeing such frequent recalls by VW on DSG related issues I am planning to settle for a Diesel hatch (may be Punto 90 hp).
However good a car is, peace of mind is extremely important. I cant drive peacefully in the Stop & Go traffic and the hot and humid conditions of Chennai knowing fully well that these are the 2 main causes for DSG failure
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Old 18th November 2013, 17:42   #33
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Why blame VW ?? Unless government makes the mandate, no businessman would incur unnecessary loss.
I am a bit surprised on your statement here, it is really a sad state affairs where companies, or individuals, for that matter, don't take their own responsibilities. Only when it's law they will do something, that is sad.

Jeroen
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Old 18th November 2013, 18:53   #34
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I am a bit surprised on your statement here, it is really a sad state affairs where companies, or individuals, for that matter, don't take their own responsibilities. Only when it's law they will do something, that is sad.

Jeroen
Jeroen, I respect your point of view and subscribe to the thought process. I was only being practical in current scenario. As a customer, I will be enthralled to have the government and companies taking care of the products with best service. Unfortunately, we aren't there yet. I was only echoing the view of practical businessman who will be focused on profits alone if strong laws aren't enforcing the quality or service.
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Old 18th November 2013, 22:23   #35
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This is really unfortunate if VW is not issuing any circular on the recall in India. They may try to become the "master of tech" by introducing tsi/ dsg in entry level Polo. But given how important "trust" and " value" is in India ( not just for cars, but right from fmcg to any other category) VW will miss the bus if their cars, that too entry level model is branded expensive amd unreliable. The word will spread faster among masses (those buying Polo/ Vento, no offence to owners) than it spread among Superb owners who could still afford more expensive service/ had chauffeurs to keep running to service centers in most cases.

VW needs to bring extended warranty on dsg right away as negative brand perceptions are hard to reverse ( ask Fiat).
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Old 19th November 2013, 13:11   #36
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
This is really unfortunate if VW is not issuing any circular on the recall in India. They may try to become the "master of tech" by introducing tsi/ dsg in entry level Polo. But given how important "trust" and " value" is in India ( not just for cars, but right from fmcg to any other category) VW will miss the bus if their cars, that too entry level model is branded expensive amd unreliable. The word will spread faster among masses (those buying Polo/ Vento, no offence to owners) than it spread among Superb owners who could still afford more expensive service/ had chauffeurs to keep running to service centers in most cases.

VW needs to bring extended warranty on dsg right away as negative brand perceptions are hard to reverse ( ask Fiat).

I agree VW needs to do something to put customers at ease. Especially after reports last month that said they are considering switching back to TC automatics for their lighter cars. Makes you wonder about the long-term implications for anyone who buys a car with the 7-speed DSG. It will take a 10-year warranty to convince me.
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Old 19th November 2013, 13:21   #37
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

I am just thinking what would be the impact on the companies revenue when they do such a recall , revenue is hit both on the prospective buyers front and the replacement of the faulty parts , so this brings to the question on , HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST TO MAKE THESE PARTS and A COMPLETE CAR , is this factored into when pricing a car ?
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Old 19th November 2013, 14:27   #38
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I am just thinking what would be the impact on the companies revenue when they do such a recall , revenue is hit both on the prospective buyers front and the replacement of the faulty parts , so this brings to the question on , HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST TO MAKE THESE PARTS and A COMPLETE CAR , is this factored into when pricing a car ?
This particular recall is more of a forced one, and not a voluntary recall like Honda and Toyota do very honestly every single time there is a faulty part detected. And in my opinion the recall will ultimately be cheaper to VW cos the cost of changing the oil, would be far less than getting warranty claims on the Mechatronic units or other cost-heavy components in the DQ-200. A mechatronic is about 1.5-2 lacs per unit? And this oil change won't cost them more than 4-5000 bucks per car.
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Old 19th November 2013, 14:29   #39
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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This is really unfortunate if VW is not issuing any circular on the recall in India.
Just called the VW customer care regarding this issue. They have confirmed that this problem exists for Indian customers also, and dealer would get back to us at the earliest.

Customer care executive also told me that dealer might take some more time to revert back as they need to procure the mineral oil. She has taken down my details(e.g. VIN, dealer details etc.).
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Old 21st November 2013, 06:49   #40
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Just called the VW customer care regarding this issue. They have confirmed that this problem exists for Indian customers also, and dealer would get back to us at the earliest. Customer care executive also told me that dealer might take some more time to revert back as they need to procure the mineral oil. She has taken down my details(e.g. VIN, dealer details etc.).
Hi Rohan, would you mind sharing which city / dealership this was? The folks at Navi Mumbai Autobahn don't even seem to acknowledge the problem... When I sent them links to BBC and Bloomberg, they just got back saying "it doesn't affect India".. even after I pointed out that it's the same DQ200 and the article specifically mentions hot and humid conditions with stop and go traffic... Not an inkling of reasoning :/

Anybody else on this thread have some ideas on how / whom to contact to get a sensible response from VW?
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Old 21st November 2013, 09:11   #41
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Hi Rohan, would you mind sharing which city / dealership this was? The folks at Navi Mumbai Autobahn don't even seem to acknowledge the problem... When I sent them links to BBC and Bloomberg, they just got back saying "it doesn't affect India".. even after I pointed out that it's the same DQ200 and the article specifically mentions hot and humid conditions with stop and go traffic... Not an inkling of reasoning :/

Anybody else on this thread have some ideas on how / whom to contact to get a sensible response from VW?
Hi RDD,

My dealer is VW Whitefield(Bangalore). I have sent them a mail, but there is no response from them.

Though dealers have this communication they are acting as if they do not know about this. Just call VW customer care(18001020909), and they will tell you that this problem(replacing of the synthetc oil with mineral oil) would be addressed soon.

I have even got a sms from VW Customer care which says "Your complaint no. is HTL XXXX and has been assigned to Volkswagen Whitefield". I am expecting a call from the dealer.
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Old 21st November 2013, 11:26   #42
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I am a bit surprised on your statement here, it is really a sad state affairs where companies, or individuals, for that matter, don't take their own responsibilities. Only when it's law they will do something, that is sad.

Jeroen
Actually I don't really agree with this.
A company is a profit making concern. REGULATED by laws.
Which means the company is free to do whatever it can in order to increase the profits and improve the returns on whatever money invested, subject to limits prescribed by the Govt laws.

Responsible behavior, ethics are all subjective terms in business, used merely for lip service.

Yes this is sad, but then so is everything else in our confused sometimes competitive - sometimes regulated lives (stipulated by institutions like law & order, religion, society etc).

As an example: what operating profit margin levels do you feel is ethical for a business? If there are means of earning more profit than this ethical limit, should the business pursue it? How would one judge which means are ethical and which are not? Should the seller disclose his costs so that the buyer knows and agrees upon a mutually acceptable profit levels for the seller because he values the product/solution/service of the seller?

Last edited by alpha1 : 21st November 2013 at 11:27.
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Old 21st November 2013, 11:44   #43
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Actually I don't really agree with this.
A company is a profit making concern. REGULATED by laws.
Which means the company is free to do whatever it can in order to increase the profits and improve the returns on whatever money invested, subject to limits prescribed by the Govt laws.

Responsible behavior, ethics are all subjective terms in business, used merely for lip service.

Yes this is sad, but then so is everything else in our confused sometimes competitive - sometimes regulated lives (stipulated by institutions like law & order, religion, society etc).

As an example: what operating profit margin levels do you feel is ethical for a business? If there are means of earning more profit than this ethical limit, should the business pursue it? How would one judge which means are ethical and which are not? Should the seller disclose his costs so that the buyer knows and agrees upon a mutually acceptable profit levels for the seller because he values the product/solution/service of the seller?
Don't mean to sound offensive, but that's very shortsighted reasoning; companies (or even individuals) who work with such ethics don't get too far. Have you ever wondered why Japanese and German automobiles are preferred over others to begin with? Its precisely the reason you mention... trust (and a no compromise attitude towards quality and safety). Take that out of the equation and you won't be left with much to sell.
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Old 21st November 2013, 16:04   #44
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Actually I don't really agree with this.
A company is a profit making concern. REGULATED by laws.
Which means the company is free to do whatever it can in order to increase the profits and improve the returns on whatever money invested, subject to limits prescribed by the Govt laws.

Responsible behavior, ethics are all subjective terms in business, used merely for lip service.

Yes this is sad, but then so is everything else in our confused sometimes competitive - sometimes regulated lives (stipulated by institutions like law & order, religion, society etc).

As an example: what operating profit margin levels do you feel is ethical for a business? If there are means of earning more profit than this ethical limit, should the business pursue it? How would one judge which means are ethical and which are not? Should the seller disclose his costs so that the buyer knows and agrees upon a mutually acceptable profit levels for the seller because he values the product/solution/service of the seller?
My thoughts are like RDD. That is a very limited view on how to run a business. Many companies the world over, do take a much broader view and many will also be very clear about how things like corporate and social responsibility actually helps them in improving their financials, customer satisfaction, employee retention, etc. etc.

I'm at liberal at heart, so I prefer as few laws and regulations as possible. I prefer to rely on free markter principles. Corporates have a profound effect on what happens in society today. Those that ultemately do well long term, you will find, do of course watch their bottom line, but are able to formulate their own values in terms on how they deal with their customers, their employees and other stakeholders along different lines than only monetary. It is not just buzz words, I work for a very large International Corporation and we take these our corporate responsibility very seriously indeed. Because we believe it benefits our company, customers and employees and we believe its' the proper thing to do.

So, its not a question of margin or social/corporate responsibility it's a question of margin and social/corporate respsonbillity.

On profits; on the whole, in a free market I don't think it can ever be an ethical issues how much margin somebody makes. As long as there is real choice, competition will level the playing field and the prices. Only when there is a lack of competition there might be a need to look at price and margin. That is exactly what happens in the EU and the States for instance.

Isolated, whether somebody makes 1% profit or 1.000.000% profit is of no concern to me. How they go about it, might be of concern to me or at least relevant whether I buy their product or service. Which brings me back to my first point, there needs to be choice.

I work for a large international company; Each and every one of our employees signs a "code of conduct". It is set of very pragmatic valeus and behaviours that we demand of every employee anywhere in the world. From the CEO down to each and every individual on our payrolls.

It defines how we conduct our business, how we deal with one another, with our customers and our vendors and other stakeholders. Everybody is held accountable and your individual behaviour is rated against this set of values as part of your performance discussions during the year. We look at what results employee achieved and how they went about it. So it is very concrete, very measurable and very real. And if you don't abide by it, there is no room for you in our company, anywhere in the world.

And yes, our profits are fine, although we would like it to be more. We believe that our code of conduct will actually help us achieve to do so.

We are certainly not unique, many companies big and small have something similar in place, formal or informal.

Now coming back more on topic: This particular issue is, according to me, more about branding. Where does a brand stand for. Do they need to be pushed by laws or do they have their own sets of values, standards and norms that they adhere to, in addition to whatever the formal legal framework is.

I can't comment on VW in India because I just don't have any insights or hands on experience, but VW has recalled cars before, even though there might not be a "legal" reason for it. They just do it, because they believe its beneficial and the proper thing to do for VW and they want to be known for it.

What I have seen in India is that some of the European brands seems to be struggling to get this sort of attitude in place here in India. Some have suggested in other threads that they don't want to at all. There was a remarkable thread on German car manufactures that just got closed.

Although I don't have any facts to support one point of view over the other, I like to think that the way they conduct their business, what their brands stand for is pretty universal, so the Indian way should ultemately match what they are doing and are know for (or rather wish to be known for) in other markets.

Jeroen
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Old 21st November 2013, 16:38   #45
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Default Re: VW announces Global Recall of 26 lakh cars (including for the 7-Speed DSG)

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Don't mean to sound offensive, but that's very shortsighted reasoning;
I did say it is sad but this is the Indian way of doing things ... I don't mean to sound arrogant or know-it-all when I say that most of the business houses that reached zenith within 1-2 generation in India have NOT adhered to any responsible behavior or ethics.

Is this way sustainable? Perhaps not, but the ecosystem does gets tuned to it (something analogous is the corruption scene in India)

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Many companies the world over, do take a much broader view and many will also be very clear about how things like corporate and social responsibility actually helps them in improving their financials, customer satisfaction, employee retention, etc. etc.

Jeroen
I would love if that was actually true in practice (spoken from my experience limited to India) instead of mere goals written to improve the yearly assessment scores.
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