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Old 27th November 2013, 12:47   #1
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Default Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Maruti is developing the vehicle, code-named RX, to take on the Innova,code-named RX.

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Maruti would dearly love to succeed in the utility vehicle segment that grew by 52% last year—a year the overall market grew just 2.15%
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The RX has been conceived as an eight-seater vehicle with a high-capacity diesel engine (the Innova has a 2,400 cc one) that is currently being developed by parent Suzuki Motor Corp.’s engineers in Japan.

The vehicle is expected to be launched in the second half of 2016-17 and positioned above the Ertiga, the company’s current offering in the multi-utility segment.
http://www.livemint.com/Industry/tZQ...l-by-2017.html

Last edited by volkman10 : 27th November 2013 at 12:53.
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Old 28th November 2013, 11:19   #2
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Maruti Suzuki is rumoured to be developing the RX, a new MUV to take on the Toyota Innova.

Link to News Article
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Old 28th November 2013, 11:26   #3
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Toyota, Maruti and the car market would have moved a long way by 2017. Toyota may have a car much better than Innova or abandon this segment. Also, other car makers may introduce competing cars before 2017 and occupy whatever void is left by Innova.
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Old 28th November 2013, 11:39   #4
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

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Originally Posted by sa_kiran View Post
Toyota, Maruti and the car market would have moved a long way by 2017. Toyota may have a car much better than Innova or abandon this segment. Also, other car makers may introduce competing cars before 2017 and occupy whatever void is left by Innova.
True, but here to be noted is the Suzuki diesel engine is in developmental phase, hence 2017 is a more realistic date for the launch.

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Old 28th November 2013, 12:28   #5
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
True, but here to be noted is the Suzuki diesel engine is in developmental phase, hence 2017 is a more realistic date for the launch.

Cheers!
Those definitely go hand-in-hand. But as mentioned somewhere in the thread for the new swift with Suzuki diesel engine, if the low end torque and power output from the engine is less, the drivability will get affected in heavier cars like an MUV.

And, to stand the fight with Innova ( whole new model expected by 2015-'16, isn't it?) it has to be seriously good, in engine refinement, build quality and overall reliability, where the current Innova defeats most others hands-down.

I think it's going to be a bit tough job for Maruti. But pricing and fuel efficiency should play a decisive role in the success.
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Old 28th November 2013, 12:43   #6
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

I believe a 2.4L diesel is feasible by 2017. However, I am not sure how relevant it will be by that time. I am sure few (leading manufacturers) will have twin turbo smaller capacity engines in people movers, which will be leaner (in fuel consumption) & meaner (in performance). Technology will advance in future (reference - http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/rena...save-you-money)

I hope they sensibly plan for future rather than being followers of leading companies. IMO India is their best bet to rise like a Phoenix, after the US exit.
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Old 28th November 2013, 12:48   #7
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

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Originally Posted by Joe M View Post

And, to stand the fight with Innova ( whole new model expected by 2015-'16, isn't it?) it has to be seriously good, in engine refinement, build quality and overall reliability, where the current Innova defeats most others hands-down.

I think it's going to be a bit tough job for Maruti. But pricing and fuel efficiency should play a decisive role in the success.
Going by the so called " innovation" in the Innova and the price they charge, I as a current Innova user, would surely not "fall" for the Innova trap when its time for my replacement in next 2~3 years.

As you correctly said, Price and Fuel efficiency, will be a major decision maker for Maruti's success.
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Old 28th November 2013, 13:07   #8
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Definitely, Innova is too much overpriced, and has nothing much to boast about in features on offer or the looks and road presence. An XUV, even the base variant would give much better road presence and luxury and features.

But the D-4D is a brilliant engine, which is better in refinement than many higher priced cars. My friend who uses an Innova and a Passat regularly, used to say it's easy to distinguish between the engine oil used in Innova and in the Passat when he changes it after 10,000 km. The innova felt silent and refined, and got good resale value when it was sold after completing 2.25 lacs km.

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Originally Posted by riteshritesh View Post
Going by the so called " innovation" in the Innova and the price they charge, I as a current Innova user, would surely not "fall" for the Innova trap when its time for my replacement in next 2~3 years.
And just like you said, I too will not fall for the 'Innova' trap at that price what they're charging now.

If Maruti can price it well, and offer good features it's a real good opportunity.

Last edited by Joe M : 28th November 2013 at 13:12. Reason: Added more detail
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Old 28th November 2013, 13:16   #9
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Seems more like a pipelined effort into the Utility Segment.
- First comes the sub-4m UV
- Then would come : sub-4m X-over/UV
- Followed by >4m SUV
- Then ultimately the bigger People mover.

- This also seems to make sense because from an engine point of view, they should have the 1.6MJD running top gear in production by then.
- And also the 1.6L engine compared to 2+L would be much more frugal.

Last edited by ampere : 28th November 2013 at 13:17.
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Old 28th November 2013, 14:43   #10
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Suzuki makes soft cars (well I am not too sure if this is technically right). None of their products (even the DZire Tour) has been appreciated by Taxi segment and I have heard it from several of them that even Indigo is better, and most of them sware by Logan and Etios in terms of reliability.

I am not talking about Ertiga here for it has been targeted for private use compared to commercial usage because of comparitive pricing.

Beating Innova or its new Avatar in 2017 would be a big time challange for the company and I am quite not sure with their body shell design regidity (for commercial abuse / use) and a relatively new diesel motor (if not taken from Fiat et. al.) would make any dent in the successful commecial sales market of Innova.

Still no harm in having a new offering in the market from Suzuki.

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Old 28th November 2013, 18:30   #11
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Best of luck to maruti. If any one can challenge Toyota in this segment, I think only Maruti can. Now let us look at the pre-requisites for a 7-8 seater MUV to challenge Innova
- A larger engine with adequate pulling power,
- More importantly, mechanicals and transmission that will withstand abuse over lakhs of Kms. Let's not forget, this is what has made Innova's reputation, and the reason why there are still who pay a large premium for a dated MUV.

Finger's crossed.

Disclaimer, I own both the Innova and the Ertiga :-)
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Old 28th November 2013, 22:32   #12
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

I sincerely hope they go above the 2 litre territory if they seriously want to threaten Innova/sumo/tavera etc. Judging by how they fitted the humble 1.3 multijet diesel inside the 7 seater Ertiga, I doubt whether they they will go beyond the 1.6 litre mark with this one. Or even worse can be the same 1.3 in a still higher state of tune with 100 odd bhp and a meagre 135 or 145 nm torque!! I won't be too surprised if Maruti does that.
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Old 29th November 2013, 05:02   #13
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

Underpowered cars can never be good people movers. So if they want to compete effectively with Innova, a 2.5 ltr diesel is a must. A 1.6 diesel is a sports hatch or Sedan engine and not an effective 'people mover' MUV engine. No point in even launching another 'Innova competitor' if that is what they intend to do.
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Old 29th November 2013, 10:49   #14
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
True, but here to be noted is the Suzuki diesel engine is in developmental phase, hence 2017 is a more realistic date for the launch.

Cheers!
Wonder why they have to develop a new diesel. Am sure they have other SUV/MUV in other markets , which can 'donate' Chassis + Engine + Gear-Box to the RX.
Toyota did this with the innova, so why can't Suzuki do so?
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Old 29th November 2013, 11:59   #15
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Default Re: Rumour: Maruti plans to make an Innova rival by 2017

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Originally Posted by i74js View Post
Suzuki makes soft cars (well I am not too sure if this is technically right). None of their products (even the DZire Tour) has been appreciated by Taxi segment and I have heard it from several of them that even Indigo is better, and most of them sware by Logan and Etios in terms of reliability...
None of the Maruti offerings (which could target taxi segment) are generous in space / comfort criteria. If I have a choice between Logan / Etios / Dzire to be ferried in, I would decline Dzire in the first place.

The advantage of Maruti here is that they do NOT have a taxi badge while the rest suffers from that -ve reputation.

From a reliability perspective, I read about 1.3 MJDs doing a clean 1.5L kms. Unless we have some figures from fleet owners, it would NOT be wise to say it's NOT as reliable as the Etios / Verito.

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Originally Posted by VinodDevil81 View Post
....Or even worse can be the same 1.3 in a still higher state of tune with 100 odd bhp and a meagre 135 or 145 nm torque!! I won't be too surprised if Maruti does that.
1.3 in the minimal state of tune (75 bhp) makes 190 Nm torque and in 90 bhp mode makes 200 Nm torque. But as you said, I would expect atleast a 2L engine in the proper people mover.

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....So if they want to compete effectively with Innova, a 2.5 ltr diesel is a must. A 1.6 diesel is a sports hatch or Sedan engine and not an effective 'people mover' MUV engine. No point in even launching another 'Innova competitor' if that is what they intend to do.
I would NOT think so. If the car is going to be a monocoque, then a 1.6L MJD will do the job just fine. The advantage with Maruti in this case will be FE and lower cost of engine. And a people mover need NOT worry about the "sports" quotient, rather the space and NVH levels inside the cabin. Ofcourse, Innova might still have an edge on hilly areas, but how many fleets drive constantly out in such terrains?

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
Wonder why they have to develop a new diesel. Am sure they have other SUV/MUV in other markets , which can 'donate' Chassis + Engine + Gear-Box to the RX...
License issues! Whatever they use abroad are again from other vendors / manufacturers and are licensed ONLY to be used in those countries / continents. They simply can't use it in India. NOT only with Maruti, this has been the case with other manufacturers like Honda, Mitsubishi etc, to name a few.
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