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Old 17th December 2013, 09:15   #31
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Hello Renault-Nissan,

I think Indians don't care much about you re-launching "That-sun" or "This-moon" brand. VFM is the rule here. If you are going to market this stripped down Micra as a M800 contender and end up pricing it just 50K less than Micra-Active, be rest assured that it'll bomb...
I suggest you take a look at the car first and then decide whether it can be pitched against a M800 or Alto and then relevant pricing too!

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
...Looks like they wanted to keep the price of top end variant under 4L and has moved some of the stuff to accessories list. I like that, since you can add just what you really need to any variant that satisfies your requirements otherwise...
Absolutely - That was my first impression too. Giving the choice to customer who has the extra dough and keeping it minimal for those who don't.

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Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
In India 'sab kuch bikta hai' !
Looking at recent set of events including approval of bajaj quadricycle some unsafe people movers hitting the market,I just wonder if our Govt. even bothers to implement safety in vehicles.Cars like this which are built to a cost are a step backward in this direction.
No manufacturers are pushing any product down anybody's throat. If one can afford a better / safer car, then one must for go that.

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
...Thanks for sharing the details.
BTW, the fourth pic shared by you of its brochure shot(quoted above) tells all the story about the Datsun's approach towards the Indian car industry & they commitment towards it, lets hope they fulfill them as much as possible to get themselves into the place, where they want i.e to grab 10% market share of Indian car industry by 2016.
I was surprised to see that point in the brochure and felt quite happy too. As I said, they need to go all guns blazing for this product to reach the masses.

For the segment they aim at, it's quite imperative that they are upfront about the FE & Service costs associated with the product. The buyers of the segment would really be concerned about it and would NOT want to think anything beyond a Maruti.

But as a product (engine / FE NOT considered), this easily trumps Alto with its space & interiors.
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Old 17th December 2013, 09:51   #32
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The Go looks a tough contender for the Alto 800 and the Eon but, i suppose a Brand like Dutsun would take quite some time to establish it's self & built the trust with people in the market. Had it been launched under the Nissan or the Renault brand name it would have definitely gotten a better response. There still are some People in india who go for brands like Maruti & Hyundai, irrespective of the car, it's features & specifications, just because of the Brand Loyalty & the trust which they have in the brand. No doubt the service network & availability of the spare parts is unbeatable for these brands but they no longer are easy & cheap to maintain.
(I own a Suzuki Swift & i say this with personal experience)

That's the reason i'd would say that, The Dutsun Go seems to be a nice option in the segment, but i have my doubts that it might do well.

Last edited by satyamkaushik : 17th December 2013 at 09:53.
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Old 17th December 2013, 09:57   #33
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
No manufacturers are pushing any product down anybody's throat. If one can afford a better / safer car, then one must for go that.
Just because one can't afford, are you suggesting he does not deserve a safe car? I am referring to the trend which is indicating that in this segment safety continues to remain last priority.
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Old 17th December 2013, 10:50   #34
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I suggest you take a look at the car first and then decide whether it can be pitched against a M800 or Alto and then relevant pricing too!
It's quite apparent (from the pictures itself) with the glaring cost cutting that it's below Micra Active, Eon, Wagon-R etc. So I expect it to be priced lower than them by a significant margin. Else I don't see the point of this car & brand at all.

The amount poured into Datsun & Go would have been better spent on strengthening the current Nissan Product Line up & offering the Micra Active at an even lesser price.
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Old 17th December 2013, 11:00   #35
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
Just because one can't afford, are you suggesting he does not deserve a safe car? I am referring to the trend which is indicating that in this segment safety continues to remain last priority.
Please don't forget that the so called 'unsafe car' is any day safer than a 2-wheeler which is the current vehicle of 99% of the prospective buyers in this segment. That is the reason why safety remains last priority in this entry-level segment.

So any move which makes someone wait longer to buy a car (due to higher cost of safety kit) will mean they'll continue to use their 2-wheeler if it is in India. In comparison, countries like US where people would depend on public transport till they can afford a car would be in a better position to implement this mandatory safety kit rules since their current mode of transport is not unsafe.

Even among the middle-class families in India, a car with safety kit is not going to protect you if you leave it at home and go out in your 2-wheeler instead.
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Old 17th December 2013, 11:55   #36
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by Thilak29 View Post
Just because one can't afford, are you suggesting he does not deserve a safe car?...
Agree with you on the need of a safety kit. I would put down the below points too

1. Manufacturers will NOT sell a product with safety kit suffering losses because they want to make it accessible to lot more people.

2. If manufacturers provide safety features, the prices will take these products to a higher in-accessible levels for a lot of customers.

3. If one can't afford a car with safety features, they should save up for one with safety features and NOT take whatever the companies dish out.

I still consider a 4 wheeler as more of a luxury item or desirability than a "need" and hence my points above. So it's a very tricky situation. Also if these customers are given a choice between ABS / Airbags & Power steering / AC, it's anyones guess what will atleast 80% of those customers choose.

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
It's quite apparent (from the pictures itself) with the glaring cost cutting that it's below Micra Active, Eon, Wagon-R etc. So I expect it to be priced lower than them by a significant margin. Else I don't see the point of this car & brand at all...
From what I gathered from the Nissan official, the top end car is going to be launched at 4L OTR. So this would make the ex showroom price equivalent to a Alto 800? At this price, I see more value in GO than an Alto. If this is the ex showroom price of the top end variant, what will be price of the lowest variant (total 3 variants to be launched I guess) would be launched - could be a very competitive pricing!

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Originally Posted by satyamkaushik View Post
...i suppose a Brand like Dutsun would take quite some time to establish it's self & built the trust with people in the market. Had it been launched under the Nissan or the Renault brand name it would have definitely gotten a better response...
Catch 22 situation again. If you use the Nissan brand name, you can establish the brand quicker. But that also will put some scare in the minds of entry level customers on the up-keep costs of the car.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 17th December 2013 at 12:04.
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Old 17th December 2013, 12:24   #37
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

Looks much better than the current maruti 800.A tallboy may mean better utilisation of leg space in the rear...I am not a big fan of seating three people in front, but Datsun clearly has targeted the typical Indian mentality of fitting in as many as possible. In any case, this would essentially mean that the rear seat can comfortably accommodate 3 passengers, which is a big plus in budget hatckback categories.

IF they put in a decent engine that can actually pull this car decently, Go is essentially a 6 seater at a cheap price. Given the current craze of 7 seaters that are priced at a premium, this factor might just be the main USP for GO. Personally, I am not a big fan of the third row of seat as many of them are actually very uncomfortable with barely any leg space. It may be a personal opinion, but i really feel it is more comfortable to be squeezed for shoulder space than to have one's knee knocking on the front seat. Thus, I would risk seating in the front row (have enough experience of Ambassador Taxis in Kolkata ) than in the last cramped row of a seven seater.

Given this is a budget hatch, there is no point cribbing about features. Nissan has a very clear message; if you want features, try our Micra range!!! Thus, a rudimentary music system in the GO is not much of a complaint for me. In fact, the idea of having a mobile holder, a USB charging port and aux in is a very simply but effective idea. run music on your mobile (like you do anyway) in your car as well and viola, you have in car entertainment!!

Similarly, manually operated side mirrors or rudimentary rear view mirror as no deal breakers in this segment for me. the Dash design looks quite homely, and most user i feel will be comfortable to sit behind the wheels of this car.

i think Datsun has quite a decent product in terms of design. let us see how it actually turns out to be.
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Old 17th December 2013, 12:25   #38
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

Exactly my point. It has to be priced close to M800 to be able to sell.
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Old 17th December 2013, 14:24   #39
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Default re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
What is the relation of the vehicle weight to the safety? Is it possible to reduce weight (by using lighter components overall) and still not compromise much on safety? I remember Maruti had carried out a campaign to reduce weight from all its components where the suppliers had been mandated to reduce the weight of components by 1% (or 1gm?). Never heard the cars had become less safer because of it.
You are spot on that vehicle weight alone doesn't have a direct correlation with safety. There are vehicles that weigh less than one ton which have a 5* Euro-NCAP rating. Then there are vehicles that weigh two tons or more which would get a 0* if tested by Euro-NCAP.

And yes, it's quite possible to reduce the weight of non-chassis components alone, and this wouldn't affect safety at all. The Japanese are the masters at weight reduction, no doubt!

The Nissan Micra is already a case study when it comes to reducing weight. It's based on the contemporary, safe Renault-Nissan alliance's V platform. Nissan engineers went to great lengths to reduce the weight of each and every component in the car without affecting safety. The end result - they were able to easily achieve a 4-star rating on the Euro-NCAP for a 915 kg car that's larger in size than its weight suggests.

Here is my concern. If Nissan already did so much to reduce the weight of the Micra, then how could they reduce the weight of the non-safety critical components alone by such a great extent (~ 125 kg or so)? Of course, getting rid of many features, using thinner seats, smaller wheels and tyres, single wiper, omitting the glovebox lid, rear wash-wipe and NVH package etc. can indeed reduce the weight without affecting safety.

But they have already done many of those things on the Micra Active. Yet, it weighs 900 kg when compared to 915 kg for the original Micra. One can safely assume the 15 kg weight difference is solely due to the omission of features and using thinner seats etc. So one can conclude that the Micra Active is as safe as the Micra/Pulse.

Could one say the same of the Go which should weigh around 125 kg less? The Go does have even less features than the Micra Active and has more cost cutting, such as the missing glovebox lid, insulation etc. but can these alone add up to that much of a difference in weight?

Again, it's possible to reduce the weight of each and every non-safety critical component. But how much more can they do on a car that has already gone through the brilliance of Japanese weight reduction techniques? It's also possible that they could use extremely light but strong components as in sports cars (such as composites, carbon fibre, suitable alloys etc.) to reduce the weight further without affecting safety. But it would push up costs to stratospheric levels and would they do this on a basic, low-cost car?

That's two crucial unanswered questions. The third is NCAP safety rating. Since the Datsun Go would not be sold in Europe, it wouldn't go through Euro-NCAP. But what about ASEAN-NCAP or Latin-NCAP which use older, somewhat less stringent Euro-NCAP standards? Will Nissan/Datsun get an ASEAN-NCAP rating for the Go, as India does not even have an NCAP or equivalent?

Please understand that these are only my concerns, as stated in the previous comment. In NO WAY am I suggesting that the Datsun Go is an unsafe car, not at all! In fact, I think the Datsun Go would be safer than the cars it would be competing against, as it's based on the contemporary, 4-star Euro-NCAP achieving Nissan Micra platform as opposed to much older platforms for its competitors.

I merely wanted to know if the Go is going to be as safe as the Micra/Pulse/Micra Active. If Nissan/Datsun can prove through independent NCAP testing that it is just as safe (or comes very close), then it would be a fantastic achievement indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitayu View Post
Personally, I am not a big fan of the third row of seat as many of them are actually very uncomfortable with barely any leg space. It may be a personal opinion, but i really feel it is more comfortable to be squeezed for shoulder space than to have one's knee knocking on the front seat. Thus, I would risk seating in the front row (have enough experience of Ambassador Taxis in Kolkata) than in the last cramped row of a seven seater.
Ah! Those old Ambys - it's indeed an experience to be seated as the front middle passenger on those, either comfortably as a child, or uncomfortably as an adult, with both arms stretched out wide on the front seat back behind the driver and the other front passenger. Only then could the poor chap (who is already seated at an awkward angle) use the gear lever and steering comfortably.

Yes, the third row on many vehicles is a joke. It's usually highly uncomfortable for anyone other than kids, but at least it's safe there, with proper three-point seatbelts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Exactly my point. It has to be priced close to M800 to be able to sell.
M800 (yes, it's still on sale in BSIII cities) or Alto800? There is no way this car is going to be priced in the range of the M800. It's not fair to expect a modern (but basic) car based on the (relatively) large, thoroughly contemporary Nissan Micra platform with a 1.2 lit. engine to be priced close to a smaller, three decades old car with an 800cc engine (which has the honor of having brought modern motoring to India and having put the country on wheels, literally).

If you meant Alto800, I kind of agree. The Micra Active already competes against cars like the Wagon R and i10 on price, despite being from a sub-segment above. So the Datsun Go should logically compete on price against the Alto800, Alto k10 and Eon, even though it's clearly larger than all three.

Last edited by RSR : 17th December 2013 at 14:35.
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Old 18th December 2013, 16:46   #40
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Default Re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

Its too early to predict now.... whether this car will be a hit or flop.
Generally the trend followed by customer preferences in A and B segment is in the following order:
- Fuel Efficiency
- Value for Money
- Reliability
- Looks
- Maintenance Costs
- Service Network
- Performance
- Brand
- Extra features
- Build Quality
- Safety

Now we only know about looks, service network, brand and features. The looks and features are acceptable, but there need to be fine tunings, especially in interiors.

- Nissan can offer the car without ICE, than providing the cheap ICE. Other-ways opt for a commercial head unit like Sony, Pioneer etc. also make some sense.

- The instrument cluster looks too basic, even commercial vehicles gets better one.

- In Indian context a glove box without a cover is highly unacceptable. Its matter of security than privacy. Even Nano did the same mistake and corrected it.

- Panel gaps (inside and outside). More than cost reduction, it will arise questions on engineering ability of Nissan.

Rest of the points are question marks and just want to wait and see.

Beyond the product, what I felt about Nissan & Renault in India is lacking on following:

- Service Network : Everybody accepts Nissan as a global and good brand, but only few prospects are confident to own a Nissan, even in cities. Nissan claims they got tie up with some third party service networks, but this need to be highlighted well in their sales campaigns.
- Seriousness : Nissan sees India as a production house than a market, unlike Suzuki or Hyundai. Even though they sell in India, customers are suspicious about their seriousness when compared to other brands, thereby skeptic about the service availability and longevity, especially while they are investing their hard earned money. The key lesson is - any company which is successful in India is very much "India focused" in all aspects.
-Brand Confusion - Same product selling in multiple name creates lots of confusion to the customers. If they had one strong brand "Nissan" or "Renault", just like Maruthi or Hyundai, people would have accepted their products well. Also they may have more sales and service centers. Who knows tomorrow "Datsun GO" will be re branded as "Nissan COME" or "Renault WENT".
- Partners and Alliances - Nissan is the only car company having multiple alliances for an end products in India. They allied with Mahindra, later with Bajaj, then with Ashok Leyland, and may be many more. B2B level they can have, but in a B2C level they have to keep their individuality. They could have focused their energy better in building up their own dealer and service network.

These all are more strategic issues than product issues, which need to be sorted out in top level much before the product is introduced. If they do these corrections and bring out the product at a reasonable price, it may be a success.

Last edited by GTO : 18th December 2013 at 20:00. Reason: Typos
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Old 18th December 2013, 17:26   #41
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Default Re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

This may not be a great idea from the Nissan stable.

Now, we have three cars at different price brackets from the same group. Yet, I doubt if any would leave a mark at all.

Go certainly looks good from the exterior point of view.

However, the interiors are extremely basic and would not appeal to potential buyers.

Look at the El cheapo HU. Would have been better had they not offered teh same at all.

No display, no CD and no Tuner. Whats the use?

Also, the speedo looks very drab.

Overall, the fit and finish also did not look very inspiring.

In short, not very happy with the offering considering that the same will be offered in the Rs. 3.5 lac bracket. Better options are available-WR, i10 and Eon offer better bang for the buck. And then, you have a comparatively well stiched Nano for company.

Last edited by arnabchak : 18th December 2013 at 17:27.
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Old 18th December 2013, 19:12   #42
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Default Re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

Looks neat from the outside for the segment.

But that horrendous music system can be removed and that money can be used to provide the ultra basic features expected in a car - closed glove box, day & night mirror etc. Its amusing how they could think of a music system without a screen. No buyer wants a music system as a factory fit as much as he wants a closed glove box. Audio systems are available at all price points in accessories stores.

The front middle seat is another grouse of mine. It sure isn't enough for an adult. Expect families to have small kids sitting there, unbuckled

I do hope this PR drive is intended to gain feedback and they incorporate them into the production version.
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Old 18th December 2013, 19:56   #43
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To me, it's a stripped down version of the Micra XE (base variant) that I have. If it's priced to the Alto level this car will sell, but I don't see any exceptional numbers for it. Everything is ditto Micra XE with a beige shade. But my Micra comes with much better quality interiors than this one. The problem with beige coloured interiors is that it gets soiled so easily, even though they look bright and airy while everything is new. Let's wait and watch for the actual production version and team bhp review before we comment on the car.

The biggest turn off for me is the way the USB port is put in the stereo. It means that the pen drive will have to be inserted upside down. Or am I thinking upside down? If I am right then they don't have a very bright R&D team they have there!

Last edited by W.A.G.7 : 18th December 2013 at 20:00.
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Old 18th December 2013, 20:04   #44
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Default Re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
If you meant Alto800, I kind of agree. The Micra Active already competes against cars like the Wagon R and i10 on price, despite being from a sub-segment above. So the Datsun Go should logically compete on price against the Alto800, Alto k10 and Eon, even though it's clearly larger than all three.
I meant Alto800. Maruti sells & there are people to buy the old M800 still?


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Originally Posted by sunil8089 View Post
- Nissan can offer the car without ICE, than providing the cheap ICE. Other-ways opt for a commercial head unit like Sony, Pioneer etc. also make some sense.
That horrendous thing wouldn't be right even in a Tata Ace or AL Dost.
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Old 19th December 2013, 00:27   #45
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Default Re: Datsun GO: A Close Look

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Originally Posted by W.A.G.7 View Post

The biggest turn off for me is the way the USB port is put in the stereo. It means that the pen drive will have to be inserted upside down. Or am I thinking upside down? If I am right then they don't have a very bright R&D team they have there!
You can plug in a pen drive, but don't expect to play any music - the USB port is to supply power only.
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