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Old 13th February 2014, 13:55   #301
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
but in the case of AMT, one uses the actual gear lever.
Correct but isn't this the same thing that a Vento and Rapid have? Or are you saying the AMT system needs a tug on the gear stick "plus or minus" to make a gear change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
This is my limited understanding, having not actually driven the car.
From my understanding, all you need to do is pop the stick in D and you are done. Manual over ride or tiptronic is an option for you to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
In ref to the "All New" bit, I guess, it may be that this is a "first" in this segment of vehicles.
In a way Yes but Maruti had automatics way back. I recall the Zen, Alto 1.1 and Wagon R with Automatic Transmission. No tiptronic though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Swift RS - cosmetic changes and there is no difference to engine, suspension or wheels, tyres and indeed anything of substance.
This is well in line with every little car that comes with a Sports badge in India. Slap some stickers, minor upholstery color change, chrome exhaust tip, leather wrapped steering and all of these combined gives you an incredible 1000bhp. Heck; the Swift RS does not even come with alloys as standard.

In this respect, I have to applaud Toyota for giving us the Liva TRD. 1.5l engine, a peppy 90 horses (Yeah I know its not much), proper body kit job, nice set of wheels and not an over done sticker job.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 13th February 2014 at 13:56.
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Old 13th February 2014, 14:21   #302
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by torque!! View Post

A real automatic, DSG included, has a torque converter. A torque converter is a clever little device that allows the engine to be decoupled from the transmission. This is exactly what a traditional clutch does. The difference is 1. You need to depress the clutch to decouple engine from transmission. When you engage the clutch, friction between clutch plates cause momentum from engine to be transferred to the transmission. 2. Pressing the brakes and stopping the vehicle from moving will not cause the clutch to be automatically depressed. Braking without depressing the clutch will stall the engine.

Al...
DSG does not use a torque converter. Its similar to AMT but a little sophisticated in that it uses two gearboxes and clutches.
Tiptronic has nothing to do with absence of gear lever. It provides a manual over ride to automatic transmission. The term is owned by Porsche.

Last edited by srishiva : 13th February 2014 at 14:29.
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Old 13th February 2014, 14:53   #303
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
Can anyone who drove the Celerio AT tell me whether the car will stay up on an incline if we let go off the brake in D? I don't see a hill hold but does the AMT give a moment for the driver to come back on gas or will it just roll backwards?

In a normal Automatic, you can make the car stay still by feathering the throttle. Will it be bad for AMT since there is no torque converter? Will it be like half clutching and bad for the clutch in the AMT?

Eagerly waiting for the official review to know more.
Pretty sure it will role back. Because there is a sticker on the driver side that instructs the driver to use the hand brake when starting off from inclines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
This is the part I don't get. How is this (AMT) different from an AT and why is Maruti hailing it as something all new? Is this a marketing term? Even before the DSG was available on VW's Vento, the torque converter unit had tiptronic. The previous gen Honda City had the same tip tronic mode in the form of paddle shift units.

The simple answer is that an AMT uses the exact same gear box as its manual counter part. So in the Celerio the manual and AMT versions use the exact same gearbox. The 'Automate' part is an additional unit that sits on top of this and simulates the clutch action for engaging and disengaging gears. If you are in D mode, it does this based on parameters like rpm, speed etc... If you are in M mode, like a typical manual it waits for user to provide the shift input manually via the gear stick and then simulates the clutch action. This is why it is easy for an AMT car to support a full manual mode. Typical AT cars have dedicated Automatic gear Boxes (like the Torque Converter, CVT or DSG based)

Because it is essentially a manual gear box and it will shift up an down at the recommended RPM/speed levels (Unlike a full manual where user can shift as he/she pleases), the mileage will be equal or greater than the manual version.
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Old 14th February 2014, 11:15   #304
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Default 10 yr / 100,000 KM Power-train warranty Required

I would expect a 120 months/100,000 KM (engine, transmission/transaxle, front-wheel-drive system ) warranty for the Celerio AMT.

The data gathered from vehicles on the behavior and problems that reveal themselves with extended use of the AMT would compensate the automotive-military-industrial [this means that not only Maruti, but every vehicle manufacturer has something to gain from this research] conglomerate enough to provide this protection to the guinea pigs.
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Old 14th February 2014, 12:35   #305
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

VW has the Automated Shift Gear (ASG) another terminology for the AMT that is in Celerio, at ~62k INR more than the manual version.


VW brags that “simplicity of the ASG gearbox makes it more efficient than a torque-converter automatic gearbox, while the lower costs make it more appropriate for a great value city car than Volkswagen’s sophisticated DSG gear box.

Here are the neagtives, but might not be relevant to us as driving conditions are different

1 .The automated clutch is slow to engage and very abrupt when it does, so pulling out from junctions requires both patience and caution.

2. Occupants will find themselves lunging back and forth during gearchanges, because the ASG’s sloppy shifts and abrupt clutch cause the car's body to lurch and retreat. This becomes significantly worse under hard acceleration.

3. The gearbox has been engineered to improve fuel efficiency, so it’s keen to change up as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it doesn’t change down quickly enough to assist with escaping those sticky situations, which are all too common in the city

4. There’s also an alarming delay between you flooring the throttle and making any progress – up to three seconds – so overtaking on faster roads takes some planning.

VW India in most probability would bring the ASG technology in the forthcoming launches/variants like the Polo/Vento/Taigun.


Cheers!

Last edited by volkman10 : 14th February 2014 at 12:37.
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Old 15th February 2014, 01:06   #306
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Default Short Review

Had some time and there was a Maruti showroom close by and so did a quick Test Drive of the Celerio!

What you'll like:
. AMT along with manual gear shift.
. Good head room and decent boot space for a car of this class.
. Auto Gear shift super smooth IF and only IF you are light footed on the gas pedal. However, credit has to be given to Magneti Marelli for making it near-conventional automatic gearbox.

What you won't:
. Medium to hard acceleration makes the gear shift noticeably jerky. However, its not the jerk that bothers me, but the unpredictability of when it changes the gear - making the car jerk is what is a little bothersome.
. Response is slow sometimes, and it takes time to accelerate after pressing the accelerator. Still, not bad at all - just don't expect it to jump forward as soon as you press the pedal.

All in all, AMT mode is great for anyone who drives very sedately and in the city. The manual transmission works quite well too. You can change it between AMT and Manual during the drive.

If you are accelerating and at the same time attempt to change the gear (via Manual mode), the gear does not change, and the display indicator on the console blinks for a few seconds - indicating that the gear change did not happen. Quite intuitive I must say! You must release the accelerator pedal and then change the gear.

I expected something really jugaad, but this is indeed quite refined.

Tyres are a respectable 165/70 R14 (but unfortunately JK Vectra - they somehow have a bad reputation with me).

Some pics below:
This is the VXI version of Celerio.

Notice the fake-wood type of inserts around the gear lever and the center console. The same material is used for the arm rests as well on the rear seats. The entire interiors with dual tone are quite pleasing to the eye.

Space may be a little more than an Alto - so nothing great to speak of on that front.

The Digital console indicates the current gear and also the Average fuel consumption and Distance to Empty (Range).
Attached Thumbnails
Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_002.jpg  

Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_005.jpg  

Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_006.jpg  

Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_007.jpg  

Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_009.jpg  

Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched-wp_20140214_010.jpg  

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Old 15th February 2014, 09:20   #307
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

So I am now some what familiar with the AMT technology and that it is quite sufficient for people like me (i.e. who have a sedate driving style). However one thing which I want to know is the performance of the car on slopes. Will the release of the brake be sufficient to prevent the car from moving backwards?

As far as I have read, there is nothing like Hill Hold feature mentioned for Celerio. Anyone who has been able to test the Celerio on a slope kindly let us know - it will be very helpful.
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Old 15th February 2014, 09:45   #308
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

From the pics atleast, the front seats don't look so bad as some of the members have mentioned.

Are the front seats really a deal-breaker on this car?
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Old 15th February 2014, 11:16   #309
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saanil View Post
So I am now some what familiar with the AMT technology and that it is quite sufficient for people like me (i.e. who have a sedate driving style). However one thing which I want to know is the performance of the car on slopes. Will the release of the brake be sufficient to prevent the car from moving backwards?

As far as I have read, there is nothing like Hill Hold feature mentioned for Celerio. Anyone who has been able to test the Celerio on a slope kindly let us know - it will be very helpful.
I did not test drive on a slope. But there is a sticker on the driver side that says 'Use Hand brake for starting off from inclines'. So I guess that pretty much means that it will roll back. Some other Torque Converter based AT's may not roll back due to the effect of the Torque Converter. This side of 15L only the Polo/Vento TSI's and I think the Ecosport AT have a proper Hill-Hold feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
From the pics atleast, the front seats don't look so bad as some of the members have mentioned.

Are the front seats really a deal-breaker on this car?
The seats are not great, the cushioning is poor (In the dealership where I went, all the display cars and the test drive cars had additional seat covers under the guise of 'dealer accessories'). That maybe an instruction from Maruti to cover up the poor cushioning. Back seat thigh support is non existent. But, for the segment, I don't think they are a deal breaker. If I was planning to buy it, I would not reject it based on seats.
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Old 15th February 2014, 11:20   #310
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Default Re: Short Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by deep_bang View Post
Notice the fake-wood type of inserts around the gear lever and the center console. The same material is used for the arm rests as well on the rear seats. The entire interiors with dual tone are quite pleasing to the eye.
Fake wood is not present in the VXI (it is a ZXI feature). Dealership has removed the default black inserts and replaced them with the inserts from the ZXi model.
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Old 15th February 2014, 13:36   #311
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

All right so i couldn't resist the temptation and had a test drive of the Celerio today morning.

I took the route of Bellary Road (Airport road) which is mostly traffic free.

First the pros:

1. The engine performance is fantastic for a 3 pot 1 L engine. I could not believe i was driving the same enigne which powered my WagonR back home. It just did not feel 1 L engine the way it revved and the mid range was very nice.

2. The automatic mode is good though there is a Pause (I won't call it jerk) when gears are changed internally.

3. I am 5,11, i did not find the driver seat to be lacking in support. Infact i found the side support to be quite OK. Maybe because i am thinly built, the seats just felt perfectly right to me. Although yes, the cushioning is a tad low. Reminds me of the erstwhile Santro's seats. A good seat cover should do the trick.

4. I put my foot half way throttle when one of the signal turned green and slot into D mode- and i had *everyone* vanish into my rear view window in no time. Since there is no time lost in depressing the clutch and changing gears, the drag times would be very good with this machine.

5. The manual mode gives complete control of the vehicle. Enough said about it already.

Cons:

1. The doors look to be thinly built. Much thinner than the WagonR and A-Star.
2. The VXi AMT is devoid of any creature comforts like tilt steering, driver seat height adjust or a music system. Even the mirrors are not body coloured.
3. There is a 5 month waiting period for AMT in Bangalore and 1 month waiting period for the Manual.
4. No discounts on offer as of now.

Last edited by DCEite : 15th February 2014 at 13:39.
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Old 15th February 2014, 14:23   #312
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Cons:

.
2. The VXi AMT is devoid of any creature comforts like tilt steering, driver seat height adjust or a music system. Even the mirrors are not body coloured.
.
This is in my opinion the biggest issue with the car OR rather a wrong approach by Maruti. Maruti is advertising AMT as the USP of Celerio (which it is) and then they give us a version which can hardly be called a top end version aka VXi AMT with no safety features. I know this car will do good numbers but it can do even better with a ZXi AMT. I sincerely hope Maruti launches a ZXi version in the near term and make this a perfect choice for many people out there.
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Old 15th February 2014, 15:29   #313
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

They are talking about a 5 months waiting period for the AMT here in KL as well. Don't know how far its true. I couldn't see the car at the showroom I visited.
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Old 15th February 2014, 16:16   #314
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

My cousin booked the Celerio AMT VXi around a week back in Hyderabad and he was quoted 3 weeks time for delivery. Still 2 weeks to go. Thanks.
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Old 15th February 2014, 20:09   #315
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saanil View Post
So I am now some what familiar with the AMT technology and that it is quite sufficient for people like me (i.e. who have a sedate driving style). However one thing which I want to know is the performance of the car on slopes. Will the release of the brake be sufficient to prevent the car from moving backwards?

As far as I have read, there is nothing like Hill Hold feature mentioned for Celerio. Anyone who has been able to test the Celerio on a slope kindly let us know - it will be very helpful.
Depends on how its tuned.

But why cant you use left foot for brake and right foot for accelerator? Should give you a smooth launch
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