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Old 17th February 2014, 21:59   #331
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan. Not much to say about the Celerio which is standard fare. We concentrated more on the AMT.

Will try to explain different driving modes:

D mode:

D mode behaves differently depending on how heavy you're with the gas pedal. With a light foot, shifts are extremely smooth with no jerks between shifts. It shifts quite early and you will be in 4th gear before 40 and 5th gear at 50 kmph. There is a small pause observed when the gear changes.

If you're in a hurry and drive a little spiritedly, you will be disappointed. Drive with a heavy foot on the gas pedal and you will notice a huge pause when gears are changed. The AMT completely cuts the gas, engages the clutch, changes the gear and then disengages the clutch. You feel a lurch and then a paaause of nothing and then again power to the wheels. Good thing is, it shifts up only at red line if you drive with a heavy foot.

Starting from standstill with a light throttle input or full blown standing start is the same. The AMT takes it own sweet time and you can't do a drag launch like a manual. It will probably be better than a manual transmission driven by an amateur.

Even in D mode it shows the gear you are in on the MID as 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D and 5D.

Manual mode:

Manual mode is the mode to be in if you want some fun but even there you need to understand the best way to get seamless shifts.

With small accelerator inputs, you can change gears easily via the tip tronic lever. If your really gunning it you will again feel a massive pause and lurch when changing manually. However there is a way to get around this. The pause is much lesser if you drive it like a semi automatic. Before changing the gear up or down lift off the gas, quickly change and then press gas again. You will get minimal lag and a quicker shift up or down. This was really good.

Manual mode upshifts only at redline and downshifts just before stalling speed, if in higher gear. If you tap for a downshift and the revs are too high it will not shift or if you try to upshift at too slow a speed it will not upshift. The MID will blink saying that change did not happen.

Irritating design in the tip tronic is the reversal of the +/-. Almost all cars with tip tronic usually have tap the lever up for up shift and tap down for down shift. In the Celerio tap up is a down shift and tap down is an upshift. Both me and Jaggu messed up quite a few times inadvertently upshifting or downshifting.

Overall impression. I liked it. Compared to a friend's A-star that I drive regularly including today, the AMT felt quite good. Off the blocks the A-star is better but the K10 feels less strained and free in the Celerio. The 4 speed torque converter seems to put strain on the A-star engine. The torque converter doesn't like to be revved and isn't happy during a kick down but the AMT doesn't mind high revvs.

The Celerio MT is horribly over priced but the lesser overhead of 45K on the AMT makes the AMT good value for money hence the 5-6 months wait on the AMT but not on the MT.

We also hated the fact that AMT is not available in ZXI or ZXI (O) option pack and only in LXi and VXi. Both LXi and VXi are spartan and not befitting a 5.75L price tag for the VXi AMT on road Bangalore.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 18th February 2014 at 10:23.
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Old 17th February 2014, 22:13   #332
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan. Not much to say about the Celerio which is standard fare. We concentrated more on the AMT.
Thanks for the 'micro' review focused on the AMT. Answers all queries I had !
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Old 17th February 2014, 22:16   #333
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan.
=======
We also hated the fact that AMT is not available in ZXI or ZXI (O) option pack and only in LXi and VXi. Both LXi and VXi are spartan and not befitting a 5.75L price tag for the VXi AMT on road Bangalore.
Plus the fact that there is already a 5 month waiting period on the display board!

Typical maruthi el cheapo build, skinny tyres. Doors now mimics, european stepped movement

Will i buy it? Well thats what second hand markets are for! Sure plenty of em will be floating around with people who are annoyed at the D mode. Sequential mode is the way to drive this car.
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Old 18th February 2014, 10:22   #334
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan. Not much to say about the Celerio which is standard fare. We concentrated more on the AMT.

...............

The Celerio MT is horribly over priced but the lesser overhead of 45K on the AMT makes the AMT good value for money hence the 5-6 months wait on the AMT but not on AMT...
Thanks for the mini review Viddy. Between, I could NOT understand the highlighted portion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...Doors now mimics, european stepped movement ...
Did you mean to say the "3 stage door opening" ? As you said, hope to see a fair number of examples in the used market soon.

At least, I am happy that this will prompt other manufacturers also to introduce the Auto option.
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Old 18th February 2014, 10:24   #335
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Thanks for the mini review Viddy. Between, I could NOT understand the highlighted portion.
Sorry for the typo. I meant 5-6 months wait on the AMT but there is no waiting for the MT.
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Old 18th February 2014, 11:06   #336
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Thanks a lot for writing your test drive reviews - really helps people like us. Just wanted to know when can we expect a TBHP review of Celerio AMT?
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Old 18th February 2014, 15:43   #337
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Thanks for the concise review of the AMT. Solved some questions I had in mind about the AMT, especially the Manual mode.

I too felt it would be suitable only for normal ( not spirited ) and easy drives. The visibility is also good, from the driver seat. Felt like an easy car to drive overall.
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Old 18th February 2014, 20:22   #338
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Thanks Guys !

I was really looking forward to this. I have very little (if any) doubt in my mind about this car. I need to go for a test drive for the final decision. Seems like a good choice for a city car.The waiting period shows the success and acceptance of the car. Once again seems like a 'Right product at a Right time' from Maruti's stable. The most definitive take away from the review is that Celerio has a better Engine-Gearbox-Drive than A-star. Eagerly waiting for Team-Bhp review now.
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Old 18th February 2014, 22:16   #339
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Thank you for the crisp review!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Irritating design in the tip tronic is the reversal of the +/-. Almost all cars with tip tronic usually have tap the lever up for up shift and tap down for down shift. In the Celerio tap up is a down shift and tap down is an upshift. Both me and Jaggu messed up quite a few times inadvertently upshifting or downshifting.
On the contrary, I find this extremely intuitive. Almost every single time I have had to use tiptronic on my Polo, I wish the layout was inverted, like how it is in the likes of BMW.
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Old 19th February 2014, 09:51   #340
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Thanks Vid6639 for the short but really informative review!

It kind of cleared my doubts about AMT but I still dont get it how exactly it differs from a normal AT. The other thing is absence of Parking"P" mode in the AMT. I cant understand that too.
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Old 19th February 2014, 10:22   #341
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazonater1911 View Post
It kind of cleared my doubts about AMT but I still dont get it how exactly it differs from a normal AT. The other thing is absence of Parking"P" mode in the AMT. I cant understand that too.
My earlier post on this may help clarify:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3368794 (Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT launched)

There are more posts a couple of pages back that explains the working of the AMT in more detail
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Old 19th February 2014, 10:56   #342
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan. Not much to say about the Celerio which is standard fare. We concentrated more on the AMT.

D mode:

D mode behaves differently depending on how heavy you're with the gas pedal. With a light foot, shifts are extremely smooth with no jerks between shifts. It shifts quite early and you will be in 4th gear before 40 and 5th gear at 50 kmph. There is a small pause observed when the gear changes.


Overall impression. I liked it. Compared to a friend's A-star that I drive regularly including today, the AMT felt quite good. Off the blocks the A-star is better but the K10 feels less strained and free in the Celerio. The 4 speed torque converter seems to put strain on the A-star engine. The torque converter doesn't like to be revved and isn't happy during a kick down but the AMT doesn't mind high revvs.

The Celerio MT is horribly over priced but the lesser overhead of 45K on the AMT makes the AMT good value for money hence the 5-6 months wait on the AMT but not on the MT.

We also hated the fact that AMT is not available in ZXI or ZXI (O) option pack and only in LXi and VXi. Both LXi and VXi are spartan and not befitting a 5.75L price tag for the VXi AMT on road Bangalore.
This is the shortest review of T-BHP for sure. If we are not going to get full review, then i am disappointed for sure. The review didn't mention anything else about the car than ride that's really bad. I am not used to this as a T-BHP member

Thanks for confirming that its very smooth and jerk free with light foot. I guess it will be better with first 2-3 servicing and user is used to it. Most common people in India drive with light foot only, so its better. With so much traffic on our roads now a days its hard to drive with heavy foot anyways. I am sure people are going to like this. Maruti has played safe with it by not launching Zxi in AMT. But i am sure, if demand grows, Maruti will launch it soon like new Swift Zdi.

I am not sure why you said its horribly overpriced for MT. Its almost of same size like Wagon R, good space, better engine with better FE, good interiors (as per the segment) and its completely new. In my opinion pricing is not bad at all and is rightly priced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

Typical maruthi el cheapo build, skinny tyres. Doors now mimics, european stepped movement
Why criticize Maruti for this? We all know that its a city car only with occasional highway runs for short distances. From my own experience (4 Maruti till now in my own house in last 25 years) i can confirm that all Maruti's are build to cost and comes with decent quality. If maintained properly, Maruti cars can last for 10-15 years easily without any issues at all. I didn't find it 'cheapo'. Its perfect for people having less budget. Don't forget, due to its light weight and thin tyres only its so fuel efficient. People want that only.

I am sure Maruti will be successful with Celerio. I just hope they keep improving the AMT over the years to come.
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Old 19th February 2014, 11:03   #343
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
This is the shortest review of T-BHP for sure. If we are not going to get full review, then i am disappointed for sure. The review didn't mention anything else about the car than ride that's really bad. I am not used to this as a T-BHP member
Hey, this is not an official review. We were curious and 3 of us went down to the nearest Maruti showroom and took a TD. We weren't doing an official review. Only initial impression.


Quote:
I am not sure why you said its horribly overpriced for MT. Its almost of same size like Wagon R, good space, better engine with better FE, good interiors (as per the segment) and its completely new. In my opinion pricing is not bad at all and is rightly priced.
Well the MT ZXi with no alloys and single airbag is almost 30K more than the top end WagonR with airbags and alloys. The better engine is only retuned version and it's not too different than the WagonR K10.

Then there is the Ritz. After discounts the Ritz is around 30K more the Celerio. You get better build, K12 engine and more space.

WagonR has more space, bigger boot and makes more sense if opting for MT.
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Old 19th February 2014, 11:12   #344
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post

Well the MT ZXi with no alloys and single airbag is almost 30K more than the top end WagonR with airbags and alloys. The better engine is only retuned version and it's not too different than the WagonR K10.

Then there is the Ritz. After discounts the Ritz is around 30K more the Celerio. You get better build, K12 engine and more space.

WagonR has more space, bigger boot and makes more sense if opting for MT.
I agree with you but thumb rule is new model is always little costly. But Celerio is not over costly for sure like Ford launched New Fiesta. You will also agree on that. Over the period, Maruti will surely give some discounts and freebies with it if there is no mad rush for it. People who don't like Wagon R looks, may find this better option.

Not many people likes Ritz due to its odd looking back. So i don't think their is possibility of people going for Ritz instead of Celerio though it has better build and space with bigger engine.
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Old 19th February 2014, 11:19   #345
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Default Re: Maruti to offer Automated Manual ("EZdrive") in small cars*EDIT: Celerio AMT laun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Had a short drive of the AMT Celerio along with fellow moderator Jaggu and Khan_Sultan. Not much to say about the Celerio which is standard fare. We concentrated more on the AMT.
Thank you for the quick review of the AMT, mods. It looks like the AMT performs best when used in the "clutchless manual" or "semi-automatic" M mode, with the "fully automatic" D mode best used as a stress reliever in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Maruti Suzuki's advertising blitz is paying off dividends as the automated manual gearbox has become the talk of the season. Other manufacturers are also trying to jump onto the AMT bandwagon now. Kudos to Maruti Suzuki for taking Fiat's technology (yet again!) and popularising it before anyone else and gaining immensely from it, certainly before Fiat think of doing so themselves!

A quick question on the gearbox. Does it have the torque multiplication effect of torque converters and CVTs? I presume it doesn't, since it's basically a manual gearbox with an add on electro-hydraulic automation kit.

The Nissan Micra CVT that I test drove recently (for instance), has a really solid tug forward if you put the gear lever in D and take your foot off the brake pedal. I guess this is due to the torque multiplication effect. Even with an almost full load and the A/C running, this tug of torque is enough to make the car creep forward on an incline, which is very useful.

Since this is basically a manual gearbox, I doubt it will have this effect. Without a "hill hold" feature of some kind, does one have to immediately press the accelerator pedal after taking the foot off the brake (or use the hand brake), in order to prevent the car from rolling back on an incline, just like one does in a manual?

P.S.: When is the full official review of the Celerio coming up?

Last edited by RSR : 19th February 2014 at 11:27.
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