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Old 17th January 2014, 18:10   #91
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
So are you saying that there will be variants like:

1. AMT + Fully automatic
2. AMT + Fully automatic + manual,

and not an "Only AMT" variant?
IMO, when this is a replacement for Estilo/Astar and geeting a wider customer base, the AMT only variant makes sense.
Please keep in mind this is a 'Global ' so availability of all variants to cater to different markets would be sense.

Cheers!
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Old 17th January 2014, 18:23   #92
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars


image source

From what I've read in this thread & what I've seen in the above picture, this is how i feel the 'AMT' will work:
1) In terms of operation, it will be exactly the same as a conventional automatic.

2) There will be no clutch pedal. There will be no way (eg. button) to manually operate the clutch either.

3) "Manual shifting" will be carried out via the tiptronic like (M) +/- set-up on the AT lever. It is not a traditional H-pattern manual shift that some are thinking of. It will be a electro-mechanical shift, not an actual physical shift of the cogs in the gearbox like a manual transmission.

4) Performance? Expect all shifts to be a little slow, expect a few jerky shifts, and expect more lag when starting off (as compared to a conventional AT, due to the clutch engaging).

5) Fuel Efficiency? Same as a well driven manual, better than a poorly driven manual.

6) I doubt there will also be a conventional AT offered along with the AMT on the Celerio. It doesn't make business sense IMO.

7) Hmmm, I think it might be possible to push-start the car if the battery goes flat?

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 17th January 2014 at 18:31.
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Old 17th January 2014, 18:47   #93
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Sounds like a good package. None of the automatic cars under 10L apart from the polo gt tsi have a manual option. So in addition to the competitive pricing and promised efficiency , having a manual option in auto at the 5L price change seems to be a nice carrot to people hesitant/worried about switching to an auto. Of course remains to be seen if the drivability is acceptable.
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Old 17th January 2014, 20:43   #94
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

I am really skeptical of the fact that they say that it's going to be fuel efficient. They might be saying that just for marketing reasons. And besides having an electronic component means a small sacrifice in reliability as we have learnt time and again that nothing beats the bulletproof working of a simple mechanical component.
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Old 17th January 2014, 20:45   #95
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Guys,
Check the picture again! The right channel only has PRN. It doesn't extend till the D marked on the right. So it doesn't seem to work like an automatic and change the gears on its own.

D(Drive) is only available on the left channel where you have the +/-.

So I guess the AMT works like an automatic for all gears other than D, which are given in the right channel. For D, which is when you drive forward, you'll need to change the gears up and down manually using the left channel. At least this is what I understood from the picture.

BTW, I assume you'll get a gear indicator in the speedo console to indicate which gear you are in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
+ and - for AMT, while PRND for fully automatic system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
AMT will always have the additional fully automatic mode. Our initial impression that AMT is only manual is not right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
IMO, when this is a replacement for Estilo/Astar and geeting a wider customer base, the AMT only variant makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

image source

From what I've read in this thread & what I've seen in the above picture, this is how i feel the 'AMT' will work:
[indent]1) In terms of operation, it will be exactly the same as a conventional automatic.
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Old 17th January 2014, 20:54   #96
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Guys,
Check the picture again! The right channel only has PRN. It doesn't extend till the D marked on the right. So it doesn't seem to work like an automatic and change the gears on its own.

D(Drive) is only available on the left channel where you have the +/-.

So I guess the AMT works like an automatic for all gears other than D, which are given in the right channel. For D, which is when you drive forward, you'll need to change the gears up and down manually using the left channel. At least this is what I understood from the picture.

BTW, I assume you'll get a gear indicator in the speedo console to indicate which gear you are in.
Left channel has -, M, and +. PRND is in the right channel.
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Old 17th January 2014, 20:59   #97
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Left channel has -, M, and +. PRND is in the right channel.
Check the groove of the gear lever. It stops at N for the right channel. You cannot move the lever to the D position in the right channel.
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Old 17th January 2014, 21:23   #98
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Check the groove of the gear lever. It stops at N for the right channel. You cannot move the lever to the D position in the right channel.
There is nothing wrong in it. You have to press a little to the left to get it into drive. The manual control is further left. Some automatics have a separation from N to D to make the movement intentional. There is no one uniform way for the gates.
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Old 17th January 2014, 21:33   #99
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
There is nothing wrong in it. You have to press a little to the left to get it into drive. The manual control is further left. Some automatics have a separation from N to D to make the movement intentional. There is no one uniform way for the gates.
+1 to that.
As far as i can see from the picture , After N , you need to push the lever left for D and then again left for M mode.
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Old 17th January 2014, 22:20   #100
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Interiors look good surprisingly. But scared to know the pricing. Good interiors, a new transmission and we can expect some other new things. But can they price it right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
From what I've read in this thread & what I've seen in the above picture, this is how i feel the 'AMT' will work:
1) In terms of operation, it will be exactly the same as a conventional automatic.

2) There will be no clutch pedal. There will be no way (eg. button) to manually operate the clutch either.

3) "Manual shifting" will be carried out via the tiptronic like (M) +/- set-up on the AT lever. It is not a traditional H-pattern manual shift that some are thinking of. It will be a electro-mechanical shift, not an actual physical shift of the cogs in the gearbox like a manual transmission.

4) Performance? Expect all shifts to be a little slow, expect a few jerky shifts, and expect more lag when starting off (as compared to a conventional AT, due to the clutch engaging).

5) Fuel Efficiency? Same as a well driven manual, better than a poorly driven manual.

6) I doubt there will also be a conventional AT offered along with the AMT on the Celerio. It doesn't make business sense IMO.

7) Hmmm, I think it might be possible to push-start the car if the battery goes flat?

cya
R
Spot on observations! WRT push start, I think thats only possible if the car has stopped in gear. Consider every time the car shuts down the transmission goes into neutral, so if you have a flat battery, you cannot push start the car since the gear will be in neutral. Without power, how can the transmission slip into any gear? Its possible if we leave the lever in gear and the transmission remains in gear before switching off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman689 View Post
I am really skeptical of the fact that they say that it's going to be fuel efficient. They might be saying that just for marketing reasons.
Agree on the reliablity part since in Indian conditions, the unit will have to make a lot of shifts per unit distance compared to a country with better road and better traffic sense. Hope the unit has been tested to the core.

OT I think the DSGs in skoda would be far reliable if the product was built and tested in India

WRT mileage, I disagree that its just marketing funda. Compared to the losses in the fluid coupled torque converters of a conventional automatic, at low speeds, an AMT can engage and disengage the clutch which will be more efficient. As Rehaan said, it will definitely give more mileage than a poorly driven manual transmission car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Guys,
Check the picture again! The right channel only has PRN. It doesn't extend till the D marked on the right. So it doesn't seem to work like an automatic and change the gears on its own.
Does it seem to have a park? I think its R-N-(push left and down)D-(Push left and up or down)-Manual shift. So, in order to go to manual mode, you should move the lever left again from D mode.

Last edited by audioholic : 17th January 2014 at 22:25.
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Old 17th January 2014, 22:49   #101
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

This gearbox is same as current A-Star Autoamatic. D is pretty much there. For safety reason, stick stops at N. Then, one notch left and back and you are in D. One more notch left in the same plane and then up or down is manual. So, in effect, it is same torque converter as we see in A-Star with nothing additional. What we say tiptronic here is also present in A-Star AT as 3,2,L.

Last edited by pgsagar : 17th January 2014 at 22:53.
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Old 17th January 2014, 23:02   #102
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
This gearbox is same as current A-Star Autoamatic.
are you sure?

From what i hear the AMT in the Celerio is the A-Star's manual gearbox minus the clutch.
in place of the manual clutch, electric motors sit on top of the gearbox. One for clutch actuation, and one each for selector and shifter.
all this is controlled by a separate gearbox ECU working in tandem with the engine management ECU to decide on up/down shift timings. development cost for such gearboxes is thus pretty low as everything is similar with the manual 'box except for the gear actuation mechanism.
so in essence, you get the best of both worlds - the advantages of a clutchless drive minus the complexity of torque converters /DCT's / DSG's

India did see a version of this much earlier - albeit in a diluted form - remember the TVS Jive bike ?
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Old 17th January 2014, 23:03   #103
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
This gearbox is same as current A-Star Autoamatic. D is pretty much there. .
Dude, I think you missed the whole point of the thread, sorry to say that.
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Old 17th January 2014, 23:19   #104
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
There is nothing wrong in it. You have to press a little to the left to get it into drive. The manual control is further left. Some automatics have a separation from N to D to make the movement intentional. There is no one uniform way for the gates.
I thought the middle channel position below N would automatically move the lever to the left most channel, just like you cannot keep the neutral position between 1 & 2 in MT once you remove your hand. I could be wrong there, since I'm just relying on purely logical reasoning of what might be a solution that is not too costly to implement considering the segment where Maruti is putting it across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Does it seem to have a park? I think its R-N-(push left and down)D-(Push left and up or down)-Manual shift. So, in order to go to manual mode, you should move the lever left again from D mode.
If there is no P, which position would you leave it when parking the car? D/R? You cannot obviously keep it in neutral. I don't think they'll save anything by removing out a P slot from the usual design.

Last edited by zenren : 17th January 2014 at 23:21.
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Old 18th January 2014, 00:59   #105
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Default re: Maruti to offer AMT (Automated Manual - "EZdrive") in its small cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
If there is no P, which position would you leave it when parking the car? D/R? You cannot obviously keep it in neutral. I don't think they'll save anything by removing out a P slot from the usual design.
Since the transmission is different compared to the planetary gearbox, while switching off, the transmission can engage a gear right irrespective of the selector? Since the selector is just a switch to indicate the demanded gear, it is still the TCM that decides which gear is selected. Nonetheless there is no harm in having a P either. I just felt that it may not be needed.
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