[tj123]

Mod Note: Team-BHP's Celerio Review has been uploaded at this link. Please continue the discussion on the review thread.

Looks like the Indian car market is really maturing as Maruti is bringing Automated Manual Transmission (AMT), which is a clutch less transmission with manual gears. This technology is developed by Magneti Marelli , it is based on an electronic control unit and a hydraulic system that supervise the use of the clutch and the gear shifting, allowing the driver to change gear without using the clutch, either sequentially or fully automatically.

Read article in ET
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/auto/automobiles/maruti-to-raise-the-bar-with-new-clutch-less-car-to-be-unveiled-at-delhi-auto-expo-2014/articleshow/28451302.cms

[IshaanIan]

This is brilliant news! Automated Manual Transmission is just the right thing for a country like ours where traffic moves haphazardly and most Auto boxes fumble quite often for the right gear. Plus it doesn't suck the fun, that most of us have gotten accustomed to expecting from new Suzukis, out of the driving experience.

This patented Magneti Marelli stuff would be an expensive affair no? Can we see examples of the very same Magneti Marelli AMTs being used in production vehicles today?

[mints21]

A very good revolution at the beginning of the new year. If this turns out to be successful, it will change the very dynamics of the automobile industry and will be a serious threat to the automatic transmissions. Enthusiasts may start opting for this kind of manual transmissions.

However, what needs to be seen is how well this will be accepted and how reliable it turns out to be in the long term.

I do recall that Hero Motors (Erstwhile Hero Honda) had launched a similar technique two wheeler by the name "STREET" sometime in year 1997-98, it had no clutch but one could still change gears and all assumed that this will turn out to be a boon for two wheelers and will create a revolution. But it never happened that way. Neither was Honda able to sustain that nor did competitors came out with such variant and it became a history. I do not know what led to its failure, was it not successful technically or did the people reject it.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see another technological step forward by the India's largest selling car manufacturer.

[scofield]

Thats a very welcome thought and strategy from Maruti, automatic transmissions are costly and not everyone in India can afford it, however if this proves to be a good subsititute to the automatics then nothing like it.

Sometimes I often wonder, Magneti Marelli being a Fiat subsidiary - why such innovative thoughts dont come from the parent company when the technology is in the house .

[Dry Ice]

Good news indeed. Let's see when the actual cars hit the road.

Thanks to the electronic optimization of the gear change and the coupling with the engine control means the AMT is able to ensure less consumption than a car with manual transmission: lower consumption also means lower emissions, especially of CO2. In some of the best applications of the AMT on mass-production automobiles, a 5% reduction in fuel consumption was recorded compared to the automatic transmission version of the same automobiles, as well as a reduction in emissions equal to 5 g/km of CO2.

If this turns out to be true in the real world or even comes close to MT figures it will be a winner!

From - http://www.magnetimarelli.com/excell...xcellences/amt

[zenren]

Interesting technology but everything boils down to 'cost for this feature' when introduced in the most price sensitive segment.

If Maruti can introduce this in the small cars at an additional cost that is less than 50k, it will have many takers. If they price it similar to the way they price their AT variants currently, its not going to make a big difference.

Considering the technology is based on MT with additional components, 40-50k extra seems possible to me.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by tj123

Looks like the Indian car market is really maturing as Maruti is bringing Automated Manual Transmission (AMT), which is a clutch less transmission with manual gears. This technology is developed by Magneti Marelli , it is based on an electronic control unit and a hydraulic system that supervise the use of the clutch and the gear shifting, allowing the driver to change gear without using the clutch, either sequentially or fully automatically...

That should add to the fun of driving (in the City). Your left leg is sprain free and you might actually have better FE too. I think this can be a hit if they price it at par with the Autoboxes. Hope to see this in production.

Off-Topic:

Originally Posted by mints21

...I do recall that Hero Motors (Erstwhile Hero Honda) had launched a similar technique two wheeler by the name "STREET" sometime in year 1997-98, it had no clutch but one could still change gears and all assumed that this will turn out to be a boon for two wheelers and will create a revolution. But it never happened that way. Neither was Honda able to sustain that nor did competitors came out with such variant and it became a history. I do not know what led to its failure, was it not successful technically or did the people reject it...

I have ridden this bike. It's quite a fun to stop at the signal and wait with the first gear ON! I think the failure was due to the looks primarily. It was never a ladies bike nor a gents!! It kinda looked like the M80.

[Astleviz]

Originally Posted by mints21

I do recall that Hero Motors (Erstwhile Hero Honda) had launched a similar technique two wheeler by the name "STREET" sometime in year 1997-98, it had no clutch but one could still change gears...

Actually it did have a clutch, it just didn't have a clutch lever. The clutch lever was mated to the gear shift mechanism so that the clutch was engaged/ disengaged automatically when one shifted gears. It also had rotary gears which allowed you to shift from the 4th gear to the 1st directly.

TVS Jive was another bike with similar clutch lever less transmission and rotary gears.

In theory, this seems like an ideal system for congested cities which involves a lot of gear shifting, however for some reason both these bikes flopped. Not sure if it was due to maintenance issues or lack of marketing support from the respective companies.

[audioholic]

Read this article in ET just now. Since this technology is developed by a reputed company, I feel it will be quite well put compared to some crude products available in the market. The article claims that cost difference will be very less compared to the conventional automatics. Hence I welcome this move and perhaps if it proves to be reliable I would get a car with AMT. Given maruti suzukis habits, we can expect this technology to be shared with other cars too. Hence its worthy considering a WagonR with AMT.

The HH street was fun to drive but it was the wierdest looking scooter I have ever seen in India

[Nilesh5417]

If MSIL is going to push this technology across its entire range of cars, the costs ought to come down to reasonable levels. It still sells close to 40% cars on the road in India today right?

What could kill it is like someone said above, reliability, life and impact on FE. This unit at least needs to match up to the life of the current trannies if not exceed it and be just as reliable. And i mean match up the manual trannies not auto cause only then it makes the numbers to make it a volume seller.

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by scofield

Sometimes I often wonder, Magneti Marelli being a Fiat subsidiary - why such innovative thoughts dont come from the parent company when the technology is in the house .

Isn't Dualogic by Magnetti Marelli?
Isn't it the same technology that MSIL is contemplating?

Well, Dualogic in 500 wasn't a reliable one, as far as I know. May be Magneti Marelli have improved the technology now.

It would not make sense for Fiat to launch this technology in India, because of cost. MSIL can get away with it, due to economies of scale.

[scofield]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

It would not make sense for Fiat to launch this technology in India, because of cost. MSIL can get away with it, due to economies of scale.

Agree but Fiat owning this technology and considering that the traffic in India is exploding why shouldnt I launch this technology which isnt that costly as automatics and can be a substitiute to them and at a lower cost? This is can be a game changing product.

Not going in the deep past, however products like Duster,Figo,Ecosport,XUV are all game changing products which offered something different to the market which it needed the most.

Duster - A reliable mini suv which can do offroading - Success.
Figo - A good small car with a peppy diesel engine with a very good price for people who were not interested in buying B+ segment hatches - Success.
Ecosport - Futuristic design car with decent ground clearance and sub 4 meter length makes is it an attractive buy - Success.
XUV - A full size car which can carry 7 passengers with good shape and size and offers the packager which was only available above 20 lakhs for about 14 lakhs - Success.

Renault and Ford were not volume sellers by any means before getting these products, Fiat had this opportunity to be a segment first to get something which can be considered the need of the hour.

Its actually all about what is needed and can i proivde it ?
Fiat has all to provide it but I think they fail miserably in understanding what is wanted.

Anyways looking forward to AMT technology in Maruti cars.

[Firebird]

Is it good / sustainable - time will tell.

Technologically it might be different, however from driver perspective how different it is from using auto box (not CVT) in manual mode with paddle shifters.

I do manual change and control the gear shifting in City AT. It is sequential too.

Same goes with Tiptronic arrangement.

Little googling and wiki shows that they are semi automatics with paddle shifters and can be used in fully automatic mode. The difference is direct connection controlled by hydraulics, sensors and processors. The article says they are expensive than auto box and CVTs. Responsiveness is the benefit mentioned.

[spiritual]

It will be funny to watch people driving such a car - I am sure their left leg will go thru the motions of pressing the missing clutch pedal. It will probably take a few months before the old habits are forgotten.

And can you imagine what these AMT drivers will do when they need to drive a regular Manual Transmission car?

[pgsagar]

Isn't AMT Maruti-speak for DSG? VW's DSG, too, is an automated manual. I'm sure Ford's DCT is same, too. Somebody needs to shed more light on these things.