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Old 15th January 2014, 10:05   #16
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

I personally think that BMW must reinvent themselves in the SUV segment if they want a proper slice of the pie, not just a sliver. The SUV segment is where all the money and action is!

The X1 looks like an tarted-up hatch / old-3er and the X3 looks nothing special. The X5 is rarer than Ferraris and the 5 is starting to look pedestrian in front of its competition.

Someone needs to inject life into the brand, and fast!
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:05   #17
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
(To buy a fully loaded hatchback the 120d you have to pay 38l on road)
Do they even have a 120d here? I thought we get the 118d. Same engine as 2.0d but detuned I guess.

Also the base 118d comes with fabric seats with armrests removed!!

Compared to that Merc remove sunroof and some interior detailing for the base trim.

Why would anyone buy a BMW which is stripped down with interior plastics removed?
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:07   #18
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
This is simply because BMW has been sitting on their backside and not doing much. While Mercedes has been launching new products this full year, and pricing them well while keeping them loaded with features (something the Indians love), and Audi has been giving massive discounts (something Indians love even more)
More of chrome on the cars which we Indians love me and more (Ref:Innova 2013 Refresh)

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
BMW has been launching products with good drivetrains but their prices and feature specification has gone all wrong (To buy a fully loaded hatchback the 120d you have to pay 38l on road
BMW are fun to drive but the prices drive the customer away from the showroom.

38L is almost Audi A4 in the 3.0 TDI variant IIRC

Anurag.
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:10   #19
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I personally think that BMW must reinvent themselves in the SUV segment if they want a proper slice of the pie, not just a sliver. The SUV segment is where all the money and action is!

The X1 looks like an tarted-up hatch / old-3er and the X3 looks nothing special. The X5 is rarer than Ferraris and the 5 is starting to look pedestrian in front of its competition.

Someone needs to inject life into the brand, and fast!
The X3 facelift and the new X5 will be here this year. Hopefully they won't price them badly.

The facelifted 5 actually looks quite nice with the new lights/rims and the added features make it a good proposition. But they needed to price it well or at least discount it well.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Do they even have a 120d here? I thought we get the 118d. Same engine as 2.0d but detuned I guess.

Also the base 118d comes with fabric seats with armrests removed!!

Compared to that Merc remove sunroof and some interior detailing for the base trim.

Why would anyone buy a BMW which is stripped down with interior plastics removed?
Corrected my post, I meant 118d. Yup same engine down some 40bhp.

Exactly my point, I'm sure they can continue to offer the great drivetrains but also add some features to the lower variants.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
More of chrome on the cars which we Indians love me and more (Ref:Innova 2013 Refresh)

BMW are fun to drive but the prices drive the customer away from the showroom.

38L is almost Audi A4 in the 3.0 TDI variant IIRC

Anurag.
Chrome isn't a big deciding factor in this segment IMO. Look at the 3 luxury line, its got a boatload of chrome.

38 is the ex showroom of the A4 3.0tdi. It would be 50l+ on road. The 118d Sport+ is only about the price of the 320d Sportline.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 15th January 2014 at 10:12.
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:26   #20
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Can I know what extra features does the A6 offer over the 5? With all respect, it's a serious question.
The A6 has adaptive air suspension for one which is present across all models. This is the biggest one. The A6 also gets 4 zone climate control vs the BMW's 2 zone.
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:30   #21
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I don't think BMW should even have ventured into 1 series territory in India. It is quite obvious they don't know how to play the affordable luxury game. The A Class despite its underpowered engines at least looks like a Mercedes inside and out. Who would buy a 1 that has less features than a Verna or Vento at a third the price?

Also the 3 has become too commonplace now, the 5 seems overpriced and the SUVs are being eaten up by Audi.

This is not surprising at all.

Last edited by noopster : 15th January 2014 at 14:30.
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:52   #22
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

The 1 series which had decent potential has bombed. BMW has not realised what the Indian customer wants - bling and status at decent moolah. So till they start behaving like Audi and Merc, they will remain No. 3. They should have started the 1 series with the 116d and ensured interiors were decent with a competitive price point. Then the A/B would have had a problem. For the enthusiasts they should have brought in the 128i.

But if BMW starts going the way of Audi and Merc, I am not too sure if there will remain any manufacturer catering to the driving enthusiast. So maybe it is better if they remain at No. 3...?

They do seem to be intent on bringing their electric car range to India - they are advertising it so let us see.
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:57   #23
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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
But if BMW starts going the way of Audi and Merc, I am not too sure if there will remain any manufacturer catering to the driving enthusiast. So maybe it is better if they remain at No. 3...?
Who said cars from the Audi are not fun to drive? I'm comparing them outright with the BMW but they are not bad either.

Just that the cars from Audi look neutral and sober rather than sporty appeal as the BMW's have in them.

Anurag.
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Old 15th January 2014, 11:15   #24
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Too many BMWs, Audis, Mercs on Indian roads. They lost that exlusivity. Would love to see British brigade take over German trio, for a change. Jag/Rover/Aston/Bentley/RR anyone?
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Old 15th January 2014, 11:19   #25
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
38L is almost Audi A4 in the 3.0 TDI variant IIRC

Anurag.
I am not sure about other segments but BMW pricing for the entry level sedan segment is extremely competitive. The 3 series costs less than the C and A4 for the base variant which is fairly well kitted and is priced at par for the top end variants.
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Old 15th January 2014, 12:30   #26
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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I am not sure about other segments but BMW pricing for the entry level sedan segment is extremely competitive. The 3 series costs less than the C and A4 for the base variant which is fairly well kitted and is priced at par for the top end variants.
Mohit that only happened recently . They have been adding a few features here and there, and the other launches recently too have been ok. But it was already too late to make up lost ground.
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Old 15th January 2014, 13:34   #27
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

IMO, BMW is losing out to the competition on following points:

1. No SUV with great road presence like, Q5, Q7 or even Fortuner for that matter.

2. Barring F30, no real new launches in past two years. Even their refreshed Z4 is not the one sold outside with the M rims and contrast roof.

3. RFTs. I personally know two premium car customers who bought Mercs fearing the RFTs and lack of spare tyre.

4. Usually, Audi and Mercedes have better offers and discounts. And also they advert them more than BMW, in general.

BMW can't do much in SUV area as developing new SUV for India doesn't make sense looking at the size of premium car market here. They can do few things to reduce the cost but still that won't improve the biggest drawback for Indian SUV people, that is road presence.

New launches are also not in pipeline for a year or so. New X1 (FWD?!) and new 5 is expected next year or so.

BMW can keep RFTs but please provide a spare tyre. Forget about India, in Europe I have had once a nightmarish experienced due to lack of spare tyre.

BMW finance has good offers but they lose out on advertising. In Pune, the ratio is that for each BMW offer advert there are at least 3-4 Audi and Mercedes adverts.

Personally, I don't care if BMW is 3rd or even 5th tomorrow because it doesn't take away the joy of driving and that is what BMW's DNA is!
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Old 15th January 2014, 14:00   #28
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

In my opinion, the key difference happened in the entry-level space. The way they positioned the 1-series (pricing, variants) etc. was probably the most suicidal act in the Indian automobile space (probably on par with the Fiesta debacle in the lower end). And to make space for the 1-series, they shifted the X1 into the more premium pricing range, which diminished its market (and the Q3S added to the misery).

To get a head-start this year, they should probably fix their entry level models on the lines of how they improved the base 320d, without any additional price increase. Even though the 3 is great package now, its sales may get heavily sabotaged by the upcoming small sedans like the CLA and A3.

The 3GT is a good package, but I assume its pricing will be somewhere between the 3 and 5.
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Old 15th January 2014, 14:00   #29
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
. They can do few things to reduce the cost but still that won't improve the biggest drawback for Indian SUV people, that is road presence.

New launches are also not in pipeline for a year or so. New X1 (FWD?!) and new 5 is expected next year or so.
You are forgetting the mighty new X5 being launched this year which has immense road presence. Looks quirky to me but it might look better in flesh and get the job done for our luxury SUV market.

As mentioned in my previous post, the 3GT is being launched this month at the auto expo. This could be a game changer.
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Old 15th January 2014, 14:19   #30
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Default re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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You are forgetting the mighty new X5 being launched this year which has immense road presence. Looks quirky to me but it might look better in flesh and get the job done for our luxury SUV market.

As mentioned in my previous post, the 3GT is being launched this month at the auto expo. This could be a game changer.
Oh yes I forgot that.

That would surely help BMW. I agree that it has got much better road presence than the current one.

Is 3GT coming as CKD? Because CBU route will just blow the price out of proportion and then it won't do numbers. A fantastic car nonetheless!
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