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Old 16th January 2014, 13:35   #61
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Just a couple of days ago I read that the Brit Brigade was notorious of reliability. Is it true ? Then to do over the Germans might be difficult as Germans are fairly reliable. Nowhere as compared to the Japs but then they are still better I guess. This might be slightly
The Germans can safely be categorized as unreliable. Not just in India, world over. You've got the Japs then the Koreans and the not too bad right now, Americans. Then you have other European manufacturers that are beginning to change. Even the Brits are doing better now. A common mistake people make is to think that build quality equates to reliability
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Old 16th January 2014, 14:38   #62
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Whats laudable for BMW is that they have stuck to their genes of making great rear wheel driven cars, but sadly thats set to change.

Probably the upcoming 2 series Grancoupe could change the fortunes a bit.

But then, the Indian premium car buyer hardly cares (or in most cases, hardly know) which end the vehicle is being driven from.

In my opinion, BMW should remain BMW. Some companies should not push numbers, otherwise the niche players would cease to exist.
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Old 16th January 2014, 14:45   #63
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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I am not surprised. A sedan with low GC and without a spare has no business in a country like India. Not to mention the harsh ride.
Totally agreed on the lack of a spare tyre.

However, the latest gen of BMWs are quite comfortable. The harsh ride of the E60 & E90 is history.

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I was told by a BMW executive that they are aware that the numbers are going down but according to their team, they want to create a more premium image than be in the 'rat race'.
Standard line when a company is losing. This sentence was adopted by Mercedes 2 years back too.
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Old 16th January 2014, 14:54   #64
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Originally Posted by ambivalent_98 View Post
Just a couple of days ago I read that the Brit Brigade was notorious of reliability. Is it true ? Then to do over the Germans might be difficult as Germans are fairly reliable. Nowhere as compared to the Japs but then they are still better I guess. This might be slightly
Don't think this is a fact, a friend owns a couple from almost all stables. His feedback-it's all about aftersales interactions and timeframe to repair the vehicle. His take BMW is really suffering on this front hence suffering.

IMO its good we have brits to challenge the top 3, the statement of the executive itself shows they are facing the heat. competition is always god for customers.
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Old 16th January 2014, 15:09   #65
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Don't think this is a fact, a friend owns a couple from almost all stables. His feedback-it's all about aftersales interactions and timeframe to repair the vehicle. His take BMW is really suffering on this front hence suffering.
BMW after-sales is considered as the best among the trio AFAIK. Which dealer your friend is interacting with?

Barring couple of dealers, didn't hear negative feedback about their after-sales.
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Old 16th January 2014, 17:27   #66
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Numbers just in from Jaguar-Land Rover. They are far behind the German biggies. 2013 sales = 2913 cars.
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Old 16th January 2014, 18:01   #67
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Numbers just in from Jaguar-Land Rover. They are far behind the German biggies. 2013 sales = 2913 cars.
Aren't they also more expensive than the three German brands - especially the entry-level 3 series, A4 and C-Class?
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Old 16th January 2014, 18:23   #68
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Numbers just in from Jaguar-Land Rover. They are far behind the German biggies. 2013 sales = 2913 cars.
I don't think we can compare JLR with the German trio just yet. They do not have the network that the Germans have established in our country and more importantly, they do not have enough models to compete with in all the number raking segments (they are only now testing a 3 series rival but with the launch of the A-class, 1 series, CLA, A3 sedan, 2series, I guess they will still need time). Also, most of their cars are definitely still a generation behind and have not found a proper rhythm for routinely updates; XF has literally seen two and a half generations of the E-Class go by, we all know how stupid it would be to buy a Freelander over a Q5, X3 or even a Swedish XC60.

According to me, they will only be able to compete on a level playing field in another decade atleast.

Here's a good question though: Will Lexus have a good chance at competing against the Krauts here in India? Will the existing vast reach of Toyota help?

Last edited by IshaanIan : 16th January 2014 at 18:40.
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Old 16th January 2014, 19:37   #69
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

It's not an expert opinion and only my personal views - When I was out in the market looking to own one of the German bandwagons, I had the following options basis the knowledge acquired from here (in the given order)

Merc A Class
BMW 3 Series
Merc C Class

Audi was never in the picture, but I ended up buying an Audi A4. Reasons, if you may ask so -

I would say the 4P's - Price, Performance, Presence and Package.

Price - Comparing only the sedans (i.e. A4, C250, 320d) - It was my first big purchase and I wanted a bang for my buck. Getting a finance (read the best finance deal directly from the respective in house finance team), haggling discounts, and all other aspects, i found Audi to be the most aggressive, followed by BMW and then by Merc.

Performance - It was supposed to be a family car, primarily meant for cruising on highways with occasional track days - Yes, the 3 was the perfect choice (but only limited to spirited driving), the comfort was lacking (maybe my perception and my mother too). Merc was again a lost cause.

Presence - "Jo dikhta hai, vo bikta hai" (What we see more often, we end up buying that more often) top of the mind theory. Eventually, you end up seeing a lot of Audi's or BMW's on road and more so Audi's in Delhi (not really the A4's - but a lot of Q3's especially in Good-Gaon). Taking an illustration, why do 5 out of 10 Indians end up buying a Maruti, more so 7 out 10 hatches sold in India are Maruti (you may say reliability, network, fuel economy) - but their is this unsolicited obsession in your mind that even my neighbour has it, which brings in that envious feeling and in some others that sense of security.

Package - What do I get, when I spend north of 30 Lacs (and I was on a shoe-string budget). I needed everything, even if I don't end up using all those applications, but still more is better, isn't it?

An Audi ticked majorly all these 4P's - although my heart still said a BMW, but my mind said, there's always a next time.

Getting back to the situation/discussion - For us Indians assets (big assets) are a family orientation/bonding exercise which is where BMW is missing the point.

Merc has revived primarily because of plethora of recent launches - especially volume has been driven from the A's and the B's.

But for BMW, it's a steep incline to be back at the top - which would be possible once they're able to tag-in the USP's with Indian consumers mindset.
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Old 16th January 2014, 22:21   #70
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Could someone comment on the profit margins of the big 3? Is it possible BMW is selling 2K cars less but still making the same or more profit than Merc or Audi and they are happy with it? How I wish they have a cheaper M series, maybe M1
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Old 16th January 2014, 22:32   #71
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Although off topic for this thread, but can anyone share Volvo's numbers for the last year too to give a better insight into the world of premium car makers. I hope they atleast managed to sell off more than JLR.
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Old 16th January 2014, 22:45   #72
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Although off topic for this thread, but can anyone share Volvo's numbers for the last year too to give a better insight into the world of premium car makers. I hope they atleast managed to sell off more than JLR.
I am afraid Mohit, they aren't better off than JLR. Volvo might have managed jut about 1000 units in the year.

The year also saw new entrants such as JLR and Volvo Cars making their presence felt in the segment. The available data of JLR for 8-months in 2013 reveal that the company has sold close to 2,000 units in India. “The India operations of Jaguar Land Rover have been tremendously successful through the years, and we are continuing to see a very positive sales momentum. With the introduction of further products, derivatives and engines, we are confident that our growth will continue in the premium luxury segment in India,” Rohit Suri, Vice- President, JLR India, said.

Volvo Cars moved to further establish the brand. It opened dealerships in Ahmedabad, Gurgaon, Bangalore and Vizag, with new ones set to open soon in Kolkata and West Delhi. “We will end up with a little less than 1,000 units which would represent an increase of roughly 15 per cent versus 2012. This would make Volvo Cars one of the fastest growing luxury car brands in India. We are on the right track in India, which is a long term strategic market,” Tomas Ernberg, MD, Volvo Auto India, said.


Source - http://www.thehindu.com/business/Ind...cle5523639.ece

Also, Volvo did about 821 units in 2012 and were planning for a 35% growth to about 1100 units in 2013.

Source - http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle4353692.ece
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Old 17th January 2014, 12:07   #73
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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I am afraid Mohit, they aren't better off than JLR. Volvo might have managed jut about 1000 units in the year.
Yes, they are way behind JLR as per ET report today : Source

see below a snapshot they have provided. Interestingly BMW is the only one with negative growth. Audi might retain the position if A3 is launched this year.
All I am waiting to see is an aggressive fightback from BMW with exciting pricing options and features.

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Old 17th January 2014, 12:25   #74
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Hey guys,

Just got back from the BMW dealer after yet another frustrating experience of the car failing on me. Its becoming a habit.

The guys over there were really busy shooting an ad for the new 3GT and the new X5. Saw both the cars - quite nice actually. They told me that they will be announcing the launch later today as well as the pricing. So I guess they are trying now.

The 3GT is actually quite a nice product - they are giving both the 20d and the 30d options. 30d in this car would be quite the performer! Having said that, the pricing holds the key. I confirmed that both would be CKDs and hence pricing 'may' not be obnoxious.

Coming back to unreliability, getting my front both shocks changed (both leaked) and also shockingly, my car's fuel line is leaking. Saw a large puddle below my car, smelt it and realized my diesel was being fed to the ground. Took it to them and they tell me that the fuel line feeding the high pressure pump was leaking - possibly a failed o ring or a corroded line. It's amazing how I have never faced such an issue on any of my other cars in the last 15 years of car ownerships.

In the past <2 years of ownership - 40,200 km

1. Rear electric sunblind - malfunctioned and replaced
2. Front Shocks - both - leaked and now getting replaced
3. Entire EPS system including rack - replaced
4. Tire cut - stranded on the highway

My wife laughs when she pulls the Camry out and says that a once a year service with fully synthetic oil costs 6k including everything!

I MUST BE MAD!
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Old 17th January 2014, 12:32   #75
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

I think this review from between 116i and A180 Petrol in ACI sums it up well. At the end of the day, most Indians would want a well-rounded package rather than one specific excellence factor (read 'driving pleasure'). I would guess Audi ticks the 'well rounded' box even better than a Merc.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-fea...-369061.aspx/4

The question is whether BMW wants to maintain it's driver exclusivity and profit margins and not bother about sales figures.
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