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Old 17th January 2014, 23:48   #76
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Originally Posted by Tats07 View Post
The question is whether BMW wants to maintain it's driver exclusivity and profit margins and not bother about sales figures.
Well exclusivity seems a far fetched term.

Exclusivity implies better and rare. It implies more exclusive treatment of the customer. More exclusive technology and offerings.

Just because they're selling less cars doesn't mean they can hide under the "exclusivity" umbrella.

Bare in mind this is the same company that was taking extra pride in being the market leader till a few months back.

If BMW had their way, the most slow selling and unsuccessful products in the market would be called "exclusive"

Last edited by moralfibre : 18th January 2014 at 06:16. Reason: Fixing quote tag
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Old 18th January 2014, 14:29   #77
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
7 series...OH MY GOD
The current 7 was a big step up from the bangle 7 hence the flak was deserved there.
Ummm somehow I prefer the Bangled 7 to the current pig-nosed one. But that's just me!

In fact, most modern BMWs don't look very good, barring the F30 3er and the 6 Series maybe? That could be one of the reasons for their downfall.
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Old 18th January 2014, 18:35   #78
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Ummm somehow I prefer the Bangled 7 to the current pig-nosed one. But that's just me!

In fact, most modern BMWs don't look very good, barring the F30 3er and the 6 Series maybe? That could be one of the reasons for their downfall.
Agreed, the facelifted Bangles one still looks hot
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Old 19th January 2014, 09:21   #79
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

In the case of new 5 and 7 it looks as if the design team was on holiday and the production manager said "We can't wait till they get back, I'll design the damn thing!"
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Old 19th January 2014, 10:47   #80
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Ummm somehow I prefer the Bangled 7 to the current pig-nosed one. But that's just me!

In fact, most modern BMWs don't look very good, barring the F30 3er and the 6 Series maybe? That could be one of the reasons for their downfall.
I too did not understand the mass criticism he received from his 'controversial' and eventually final BMW line.
Personally though the 7 was not to my liking but I didn't hate it like most people did, It was ok. I did not at all understand what the hell was wrong with the way the 3 and 5 series of that generation looked. If anything I find the 5 Series to have aged beautifully. The front end of that 5'er looks better than the current one I find it...
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Old 20th January 2014, 12:23   #81
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

Just out of curiosity why does BMW have such high prices ? I mean they have a plant in Chennai and are churning out the 3 and 5 and also the X1. If I remember 1 series also has started being produced. So why don't their costs come to sub-20 or even just around 20 lakhs. Is it taxes ? Is it lack of localisation ? Imported cars or units attract a lot in terms of duty so it is cheaper to manufacture here. But now even with all 3 Germans having factories here , do all their products have to be quite as expensive ?

Also if one really stretches his budget to buy this car how expensive is the maintainence ? Pardon my ignorance as I am an auto enthusiast but don't understand the finer points of pricing. I think India is a price sensitive market and finally Audi is ruling out of the 3 big Germans is probably the price point and the deals they offer.
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Old 20th January 2014, 15:07   #82
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Just out of curiosity why does BMW have such high prices ? I mean they have a plant in Chennai and are churning out the 3 and 5 and also the X1. If I remember 1 series also has started being produced. So why don't their costs come to sub-20 or even just around 20 lakhs. Is it taxes ? Is it lack of localisation ? Imported cars or units attract a lot in terms of duty so it is cheaper to manufacture here. But now even with all 3 Germans having factories here , do all their products have to be quite as expensive ? Also if one really stretches his budget to buy this car how expensive is the maintainence ? Pardon my ignorance as I am an auto enthusiast but don't understand the finer points of pricing. I think India is a price sensitive market and finally Audi is ruling out of the 3 big Germans is probably the price point and the deals they offer.
Same reason why Rolls Royce and Bentley are so expensive inspite of sharing engines with cheaper siblings

POSITIONING
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Old 20th January 2014, 17:37   #83
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Numbers just in from Jaguar-Land Rover. They are far behind the German biggies. 2013 sales = 2913 cars.
Leave alone the numbers. When it comes to looks, i like Jaguar car more than all 3 Germans. They just look out of the world. BMW, Merc & Audi has become a common sight now. Jags feels more refreshed & unique on the road.

I wish one day i will own one Jaguar for myself. I will sleep in the car only, at least on first night so that i can told myself that its not a dream
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Old 20th January 2014, 19:49   #84
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Leave alone the numbers. When it comes to looks, i like Jaguar car more than all 3 Germans. They just look out of the world. BMW, Merc & Audi has become a common sight now. Jags feels more refreshed & unique on the road.

I wish one day i will own one Jaguar for myself. I will sleep in the car only, at least on first night so that i can told myself that its not a dream
I agree on the looks part as the Jag's look smashing and they attract the eye more because they are seen rarely on the roads. Once they become a common sight like the German trio then none will notice and give the attention.

I love the F-Type's.

Anurag.
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Old 20th January 2014, 20:19   #85
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

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Leave alone the numbers. When it comes to looks, i like Jaguar car more than all 3 Germans. They just look out of the world. BMW, Merc & Audi has become a common sight now. Jags feels more refreshed & unique on the road.
I think thats more to do with the exclusivity factor. Few years back I used to have the same kind of feelings for a BMW. Then it was taken up by Audi and those gorgeous DRLs which have now become too common. Jaguar still is rarely seen and the exclusivity makes the design aspirational. No doubt the car is designed beautifully but say if tomorrow it becomes as common as the 3 germans, then you might have to start dreaming of another car.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 11:54   #86
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

What most people fail to realize is that BMW has always made sporty vehicles with RWD, the end result is that the Cars will be more expensive than FWD vehicles to manufacture.
I own a 3 series and drive it myself, (a daily car category), most people who might sometimes happen to sit in the car's rear seats complain of the stiff ride.
This would be the typical Asian problem, not "Indian" but Chinese as well, if you read reports China has a special 3 series which is made with more rear leg room and soft suspension for owners to be chauffeur driven, this should be introduced in India, the special Chinese version to boost sales on the 3 series.
Apart from that, BMW is going to go ahead next year and introduce the new 1 series, 2 series and X1 and other small vehicles with FWD, bringing down the costs of the vehicle.
They are basically copying Audi's masterplan, Sell the idea of Quattro but give you a 2.0 Tdi with FWD, most indian consumers don't know these details, just see the tv advert where a Audi Quattro Rally Car from the 1985 driven by Walter Rohrl transforms into the new A4.
A second issue is the luxury SUV category, if BMW is serious on attacking this market, they need to get the American made style of BMWs with X drive technlogy, basically a type of Quattro tech where all 4 wheels are engaged by the drive train.
The current ones like the X1, X3, etc. fail for off roading because they get stuck in wet mud, sand, etc.
A third issue is the M division, BMW India are not promoting this enough on the race tracks or on tv to showcase their brands sportiness and motorsports prowess as they do in Europe and America.
They need to start locally manufacturing special M versions of Cars like the 1 series, 3 series, etc. to bring down costs to consumers like me, who might be interested in investing in a good weekend car or track day car, right now i'm looking into getting a good second hand Porsche Cayman for these obvious reasons.
In short, BMW India needs to hire me as a consultant and they are off and running with good sales,
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Old 23rd January 2014, 14:07   #87
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Originally Posted by Golf Pro View Post
What most people fail to realize is that BMW has always made sporty vehicles with RWD, the end result is that the Cars will be more expensive than FWD vehicles to manufacture. I own a 3 series and drive it myself, (a daily car category), most people who might sometimes happen to sit in the car's rear seats complain of the stiff ride. This would be the typical Asian problem, not "Indian" but Chinese as well, if you read reports China has a special 3 series which is made with more rear leg room and soft suspension for owners to be chauffeur driven, this should be introduced in India, the special Chinese version to boost sales on the 3 series. Apart from that, BMW is going to go ahead next year and introduce the new 1 series, 2 series and X1 and other small vehicles with FWD, bringing down the costs of the vehicle. They are basically copying Audi's masterplan, Sell the idea of Quattro but give you a 2.0 Tdi with FWD, most indian consumers don't know these details, just see the tv advert where a Audi Quattro Rally Car from the 1985 driven by Walter Rohrl transforms into the new A4. A second issue is the luxury SUV category, if BMW is serious on attacking this market, they need to get the American made style of BMWs with X drive technlogy, basically a type of Quattro tech where all 4 wheels are engaged by the drive train. The current ones like the X1, X3, etc. fail for off roading because they get stuck in wet mud, sand, etc. A third issue is the M division, BMW India are not promoting this enough on the race tracks or on tv to showcase their brands sportiness and motorsports prowess as they do in Europe and America. They need to start locally manufacturing special M versions of Cars like the 1 series, 3 series, etc. to bring down costs to consumers like me, who might be interested in investing in a good weekend car or track day car, right now i'm looking into getting a good second hand Porsche Cayman for these obvious reasons. In short, BMW India needs to hire me as a consultant and they are off and running with good sales,
Completely agree with you ! Couldn't have put it better.

Except the first line of your post.

It is not something most PEOPLE don't realize but BMW THEMSELVES who fail to realize what they stand for and focus on that instead of being part of a rat race started largely by Audi.

Secondly the biggest problem with BMW is their increasing prices. They were still making the same rear wheel cars when they were on top a year back. The only thing that's changed is the prices.

A 320d luxury line used to cost 32.25 lacs ex showroom 14 months ago. Today it costs 38.xx. That's a 20% increase !!!
A 520d used to cost anywhere between 36-39 lacs 7-8 months ago. Today the dealer quotes 50.xx. As the new "2014" price.
I'm not saying they're selling at this price. But they're quoting them, which alone is driving customers away. Further they're offering heavy discounts which further only dilute the brand value.

BMW cars are great but they skip on some features which competition provides. And all that was acceptable till BMW prices were in the same region as competition. People who wanted goodies went for Audi. People who wanted presence and build went for merc. People who loved to drive went for BMW.

Today people who love to drive are also being forced to look at Audi and merc as the price difference has gone through the roof.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 14:21   #88
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

I saw the 5 series today on road and started thinking. If you could remove the BMW badge, the BMW looks boring and doesnt have any presence. The heft that Audi, Jag bring is non existent. Then for someone who is not so pressed on handling etc, not sure why would one buy a BMW. Price is an addon to that.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 14:54   #89
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I saw the 5 series today on road and started thinking. If you could remove the BMW badge, the BMW looks boring and doesnt have any presence. The heft that Audi, Jag bring is non existent. Then for someone who is not so pressed on handling etc, not sure why would one buy a BMW. Price is an addon to that.
That's true. I don't think looks play a big role in people buying BMW. Though looks are subjective, it's safe to assume this.

I bought 320d and the decision was taken based on the fact that it's RWD, has superb handling even after the rise in GC, iDrive and the excellent sports seats that come in Sport line.

On paper other cars look impressive but once you get behind the wheels as a driver, it's very hard to buy any other car in that segment.

Edit: 38L+ ex-showroom for Sport line is insane and I wouldn't buy it at this price today. But the 2013 prices were quite okay.

Last edited by the_skyliner : 23rd January 2014 at 14:56.
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Old 24th January 2014, 16:05   #90
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Default Re: BMW India slips to No. 3 position. Behind Audi & Mercedes in 2013

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the missing 5th tyre, could also be a reason. I know of 3~4 people who considered this as a deterrent.
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