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Old 1st February 2014, 17:03   #46
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

Hasn't this been beaten to death already?

I am 100% safer in my Alto than on my bike. I am protected from the elements. I have a few creature comforts. I will not fall down on the road under any circumstance.

For the moment, this is sufficient for me. I am a sane driver. I will not buy the Alto with all the safety features, if it sells at double the price. Because I can't. And then I will have to travel by auto, and what safety features has that one got?
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Old 1st February 2014, 22:45   #47
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
Believe me, I had no intention of letting Maruti Suzuki off the hook by bashing Hyundai alone. I was particularly worried on seeing the Indian i10's pathetic performance because that's the one we use.
RSR, I think we are on the same page here I was just including Maruti & Tata as many posts and posters in here tend to ignore the so called home brands maybe because of patriotic reasons. We are ready to jump on foreign manufacturers but tend to take an easy stand on these brands.
I can see the frustration because you own an i10 and seeing it's performance in the test, one really feels that they are going with double standards.
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Old 1st February 2014, 23:21   #48
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I am 100% safer in my Alto than on my bike. I am protected from the elements. I have a few creature comforts. I will not fall down on the road under any circumstance.
100% safer sounds good. OK, you are twice as safe as you would be on a bike. How safe are you on a bike? Let's consider not your sane driving, but the insane driving of everybody else. Your sane driving only moves you a small percentage up the average safety scale.

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I will not buy the Alto with all the safety features, if it sells at double the price.
I think you ought to reconsider your halving and doubling! Anyway, adding basic safety features has not doubled the price of a Polo, so I doubt that it will double the price of an Alto.
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Old 1st February 2014, 23:26   #49
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Hasn't this been beaten to death already?

. I will not buy the Alto with all the safety features, if it sells at double the price. Because I can't. And then I will have to travel by auto, and what safety features has that one got?
That's a valid point safety should'nt have to come at a price, hopefully the govt should decrease tax rates for cars based on their safety. a slab like 3% or 4%. more unsafe the car higher the tax. may work?. This may generate more revenue than their incomprehensible SUV tax
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Old 2nd February 2014, 00:15   #50
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

Price estimations are messed up here is it not true that VW will increase cost by just 2.7% for the Polo and add twin airbags. If below to 5-6% is all then why not, ABS is not that expensive as it is but from personal experience I would choose airbags over ABS.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 01:39   #51
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

Airbags versus ABS. I don't know which I'd choose.

Think differently, for a moment, not as a driver, but as a pedestrian. Some misjudgement by you or a driver has put you, on foot, in the middle of a road, with a car hurtling towards you.

Which would you rather that car had: airbags? or ABS?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:52   #52
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Airbags versus ABS. I don't know which I'd choose.

Think differently, for a moment, not as a driver, but as a pedestrian?

Still airbags. ABS helps save me from the consequences of my own speeding - and I can correct for that by driving slower. There is ample evidence that people push harder in cars with ABS. Airbags save me from the consequences of other idiots actions as well. Of course, let's start by ensuring that everyone in our cars wear seat belts - every time. That is clearly the most basic safety precaution.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:51   #53
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Still airbags. ABS helps save me from the consequences of my own speeding - and I can correct for that by driving slower. There is ample evidence that people push harder in cars with ABS. Airbags save me from the consequences of other idiots actions as well. Of course, let's start by ensuring that everyone in our cars wear seat belts - every time. That is clearly the most basic safety precaution.
Is it not a misconception that ABS/EBD works only at high speeds? IIRC, even at 40 kmph, a hard braking would have the ABS kick in if there is a chance of lockup and minimize the braking distance. Its not always possible in city traffic to keep safe distance to the vehicle in front since an auto or a 2-wheeler would squeeze into that gap and make you retreat further back.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 15:01   #54
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Hasn't this been beaten to death already?

I am 100% safer in my Alto than on my bike. .......
Not necessarily. One of the biggest drawbacks of a poorly designed crash structure is entrapment, i.e being stuck inside a mangled cage after a severe accident and unable to get out.

This is especially true in the Indian context where emergency services take time to reach the spot and the hapless public cannot recover the victims stuck inside the tragedy.

As exposed one is in a two wheeler and for its many drawbacks, atleast accessibility is instant.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
For the moment, this is sufficient for me. I am a sane driver. I will not buy the Alto with all the safety features, if it sells at double the price. Because I can't. And then I will have to travel by auto, and what safety features has that one got?
It is pointless buying an Alto or for that matter most Maruti cars with an airbag.
An airbag is actually dangerous if combined with a weak chassis!! The last thing you want when the steering is being shoved into your chest after a frontal collision is for an airbag to implode inside you!!

Sanity on roads is unfortunately a two way business!! As safe as one is, you are helpless when a state bus driver comes charging at you on the wrong side of the road?!

The biggest and most incurable after-effect of any mistake is regret!!! More than any loss its the regret of not having done something when there was an opportunity to do so....that is what tears one apart.

To each his own I presume, but in all honesty the cost of a good well designed car with safety features is not a very high price to pay for the security it provides, not just to oneself but more importantly for our loved ones!!
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Old 2nd February 2014, 17:26   #55
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

Remove all the cars mentioned here from the scene, or sell them with the safety features at a steeper prize, and see the Indian car market crash by half. Now which govt is going to bell THAT cat? None.

They will just keep making the right noises for a long time.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 20:34   #56
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

Gansan, you are fond of your 100% and 50% estimates. I don't think either are likely to be true in reality.

Apparently the market is not doing too well at the moment anyway, and no price rise is going to help, but in a year or two it all gets absorbed into people's expectations.

I'm more worried by a different aspect of airbags, which is how much harm their misuse is likely to do.

---children on lap of front seat passenger can be killed.

---drivers sitting right up to steering wheel.

---adjustable reach/hight steering wheel pointed at face.

---airbags without seat-belt use. Seatbelts had become compulsoray/habitual in some other countries long before airbags were introduced.

But, I suppose there are already quite a few airbags on our roads already...

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 2nd February 2014 at 20:36.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 13:32   #57
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
---drivers sitting right up to steering wheel.

---adjustable reach/hight steering wheel pointed at face.
These two points are quite interesting to me, since they are very relevant to short people (say shorter than 5 feet).
While exploring cars with my wife who is 5 feet tall, we realized that she had to pull the seat right to the front most position in order for her leg to press the clutch pedal.

Now, that resulted in the steering wheel very close to the body.
I remember Chevrolet Beat was one such car.
So, airbag or not, even 'seating position' could kill, isn't it?

On the other hand, a car like Punto did not allow the seat to travel close enough for the leg to press the C pedal completely. So, that was safer, but not suitable.

Last edited by S_U_N : 3rd February 2014 at 13:34.
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Old 3rd February 2014, 17:57   #58
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

This is what I personally feel. The manufacturers are relunctant to include airbags/abs in basic models since consumers are not ready to pay extra for them. Several end users surveys underline this fact. In India, safety is the lowest priority while buying a car. Buyers prefer FE/leather seats/boot space over airbags.

Tell me how many car buyers (out of tbhp) have even heard of crash tests. I have spoke to countless people when they decide on a new car. Not even one have talked about how safe a car their choosing is. When I decided to upgrade the first thing I did was to see the crash test videos and accident pics of i20/Jazz/Polo. Classic example, my uncle said that airbags are waste when he got his i10, I am driving only at max 60km/hr, so why airbags. I emailed him the i10 crash test video. He was disturbed and realized the facts.

Plus the govt is not really bothered or ignorant to ensure only safe cars can be sold. The statement by TATA says they are following all the mandatory safety parameters stipulated by the India govt.

Kudos to NDTV to bring this up, but wonder they didnt bother about this years ago.
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Old 4th February 2014, 07:24   #59
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Airbags versus ABS. I don't know which

Which would you rather that car had: airbags? or ABS?
These two serve a different purpose don't they? ABS is a safety feature pre-crash while airbags are post-crash and both supplement each other.
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:06   #60
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Default re: Indian Government plans complete crash test of all cars

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Originally Posted by mail4ajo View Post
When I decided to upgrade the first thing I did was to see the crash test videos and accident pics of i20/Jazz/Polo.
a very unique mindset that .. isn't it. When you want to select a car, you first watch them crash. boom. It goes like, "hey I like the Polo build quality, so first thing I gotta go watch a Polo crash NCAP vid on youtube". Next thing on my mind is to watch that classy i20 crash. As I said, a unique way of looking at a car purchase, never thought of it that way before. It's nice of you to share that thought process.
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