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Old 11th February 2014, 09:41   #196
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

I think, even if we canít grow to the NCAP, we can still have something in lines of star rating of cars similar to our air-conditioners and refrigerators which is ever evolving.

The star rating is basically developed due to aggressive competition among manufacturers and thus every evolving. A 5 star rated product becomes 4 star the moment a manufacturer introduces a better and more energy efficient product in the market. It is important to note here that government was quite sceptical of the rating system and was of the opinion that people will pick up the cheapest, while the survey and sale records reveal that least sales have been observed up to 2 star rated product and maximum are for 3 and 4 star rated products.

Similarly, the government can introduce star rating for individual car segment. The market will then take care of the rating and an informed decision among buyers. At present there is no such transparent presentation of facts before customers when the purchase decision is made.

Most of us have seen Hyundai i20 displaying 5star rating (NCAP) sticker on the rear glass.
- The India spec i20 is not the same as European
- The 5 star rating is only for the top spec Asta variant (European) while the sticker is there on all trims offered in India
The law is not correcting things and simultaneously letting the wrong / misrepresentation happen. None of the government agencies and associations like AAI / SIAM has objected to such practices.

At the end of the day, itís business and meant for making quick money by selling sub-standard cars to Indian

Look at the product line of any of the manufacturer (barring FIAT & Ford the only I could think of which operate in B & C segment) yet does not make India specific sub standard products / very compromised products with respect to passenger safety

- Maruti Suzuki (All, except CKD units like Vitara and Kizashi)
- Hyundai (All B segment products)
- Toyota (Etios & Liva)
- Honda (Quickly moving in with Brio, Amaze, a new sub-standard City, please note the 4th generation city sold in other markets has better safety kit)

And the list goes on and on. This could be one of the major reasons why Suzuki is not doing well in several markets.


The Indian government has not even gone by the prescriptive approach, which does not require any tests. Some of the things that can be done (as mandatory for all cars)
- ABS with EBD
- Driver side air-bag
- Rear view mirrors on both sides
- No bull bars (the system is able to control use of sun-films, they should be able to do something for bull bars too)

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 11th February 2014 at 09:49.
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Old 16th February 2014, 20:27   #197
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindRide View Post
Safety equipment should NOT be made mandatory across variants of a car model.
Where does GOI draw the line if it adopts this approach?

What is required from GOI though is to ensure vehicles that indulge in dangerous driving (highway driving, race track, rally sports, etc) have necessary safety equipment in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
And how do you propose government achieve this requirement of making the safety equipment mandatory for ONLY those vehicles that are used for highway driving? And how can the government ensure that a vehicle owner who purchased his vehicle for only city usage NEVER takes his car on a highway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Rules applied at the manufacturer level are the only ones that have some compliance since the offenders are typically left without a choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by i74js View Post

At the end of the day, itís business and meant for making quick money by selling sub-standard cars to Indians

The Indian government has not even gone by the prescriptive approach, which does not require any tests. Some of the things that can be done (as mandatory for all cars)
- ABS with EBD
- Driver side air-bag
- Rear view mirrors on both sides
- No bull bars (the system is able to control use of sun-films, they should be able to do something for bull bars too)
My two cents on the issue. Please ponder over these basic doubts I have:
1. Why do we see so many accidents ?
2. Which rule do we stick to, and name one that is not flouted ?
3. Why cannot the Govt make the infrastructure (roads, highways, etc) suited to match the eqpt to be mandated on the cars ?
4. If every Indian driving / having a DL has passed the driving test honestly, I feel seat belts would be more than enough.

Moral : The problem here is with our devious and cunning mentality, no amount of eqpt can make our journeys safer than we (drivers) ourselves.
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Old 19th February 2014, 16:05   #198
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Now Madras high court notice to Centre, Tamil Nadu after plea seeks airbags in vehicles - but leaves out the bigger issue on structural rigidity!



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/30636812.cms

Last edited by volkman10 : 19th February 2014 at 16:10.
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Old 19th February 2014, 16:57   #199
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Now Madras high court notice to Centre, Tamil Nadu after plea seeks airbags in vehicles - but leaves out the bigger issue on structural rigidity!
Atleast one step has been put ahead in airbags to be put in all cars sold.

I know structural rigidity is MORE important but that has be put into manufacturers heads by more of such NCAP tests and result to be shown as bad structural construction. Only then will manufacturers use better and thicker steel.

Anurag.
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Old 19th February 2014, 19:49   #200
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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I know structural rigidity is MORE important but that has be put into manufacturers heads by more of such NCAP tests and result to be shown as bad structural construction. Only then will manufacturers use better and thicker steel.
That will happen on its own, IMO. If they just put airbags in such an i10, there would be damage to the dummies and the car would still get a 0/5 rating. And it's not even that the manufacturers lack the technical know-how of creating crashworthy cars.
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Old 7th March 2014, 18:44   #201
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Just came across this piece by Siddharth Vinayak Patankar on NDTV.com. It cites the reaction by Andy Palmer, the head of Nissan's global product planning, on the recent crash tests on cars sold in India.
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/nissan-glo...from=home-auto

What caught my eye is this comment by Mr. Palmer - "I think the people who criticise these cars for not meeting US or European crash standards are living in a dream world. We are talking about cars built to transport people who would otherwise be four or five-up on a motorcycle. These people today can't afford more, and if we fit safety systems we will drive the prices up and they'll choose the motorbike again. A car with a body and individual seats is much safer than a bike."

Not sure if other manufacturers too share a similar opinion! Very unfortunate comment nevertheless.

Last edited by riturajsharma19 : 7th March 2014 at 18:48.
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Old 8th March 2014, 09:48   #202
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

It is common in the 'corporate world' to shift the blame of non-performance to some convenient strawman.
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Old 8th March 2014, 15:01   #203
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by riturajsharma19 View Post
Just came across this piece by Siddharth Vinayak Patankar on NDTV.com. It cites the reaction by Andy Palmer, the head of Nissan's global product planning, on the recent crash tests on cars sold in India.
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/nissan-glo...from=home-auto

What caught my eye is this comment by Mr. Palmer - "I think the people who criticise these cars for not meeting US or European crash standards are living in a dream world. We are talking about cars built to transport people who would otherwise be four or five-up on a motorcycle. These people today can't afford more, and if we fit safety systems we will drive the prices up and they'll choose the motorbike again. A car with a body and individual seats is much safer than a bike."

Not sure if other manufacturers too share a similar opinion! Very unfortunate comment nevertheless.

If that is the case, then why don't the manufacturers mention this point clearly in those ads/product descriptions, that their car is just a motorcycle replacement and nothing more should be expected from that product, other than an additional pair of wheels and seats?

Just take a look at the official web page or ad of Eon, alto, i10 or any other tin-box sold in that range. You will see words like "Advanced technology", "trendsetter", modern design", "Next-gen", "hi-tech", "superior safety levels" etc etc.. So what do you manufacturers think that a customer should naturally expect of the build quality, after seeing all such superlative terms in your ads? I think the only exception is Tata motors who had initially marketed the nano as the world's cheapest car.

I think it is not asking too much to expect atleast an NCAP score of 1 from a car, when you are spending around 4 to 5 lakhs to own that. Don't we Indians deserve atleast that much?
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Old 8th March 2014, 15:38   #204
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by riturajsharma19 View Post
Just came across this piece by Siddharth Vinayak Patankar on NDTV.com...
Very unfortunate comment. Especially when you consider from whom it is coming.

Rather than improving your product, the guy is blaming the buyers. Ridiculous.
The same Indian cars which scored better at the tests, are they another breed or any other category of cars which are vastly different? And in prices too?
His statement can be true for a Nano or an Alto, but for anything above that segment is not acceptable. And if he really thinks this to be the case, then sorry Mr. SVP, it is you who is living in the dreamworld!
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Old 8th March 2014, 16:29   #205
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The comment is a bit crude and harsh on the Indian buyer, but I can't help agree with Palmer. It is not that they are incapable of improving their cars. But if the buyer wants only style, gadgets etc and not safety, why should they try to sell something almost nobody wants?
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Old 8th March 2014, 17:50   #206
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

IMO the comments by Andy Palmer reflect the reality in India. If the cars & other 4-wheelers were sold with mandatory Airbags, ABS, etc, I'm sure, the prices will shoot up by Rs.50k to Rs.1 Lacs. Even the base Nano & Alto would cost over Rs.3 lacs as compared average to 2-wheelers which could be brought at Rs.50k, thereby implying much more unsafe vehicles on Indian roads (believe me it's coming from a person who has almost 150k kms 2-wheeler riding experience). At least a modern design of the Nano & Alto800 is safer than a 2-wheeler for the whole family travelling together.

But, my argument is not to dilute the safety aspect, & there has to be concrete steps towards vehicular safety standards in Indian Auto Industry.
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Old 15th March 2014, 13:44   #207
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

The Swift also got crash-tested and right now the results are coming up in a few minutes on NDTV Profit, per Siddharth Pattankar, the anchor. Let us see how it fares. Right now there is a commercial break. Fingers crossed!


Edit: final results are yet to be analyzed, but initial reports say the Swift had a lot better structural integrity when compared to the Nano, Alto and I10. Great news indeed for the segment leader.

Note: I did not see the show from the beginning, but I hope it was a Swift that was made in India. It was a ZXI, per Siddharth.

Last edited by vnabhi : 15th March 2014 at 13:53.
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Old 15th March 2014, 13:52   #208
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Whoa! That's some good news. Would like if both the l and z variants get tested. That may put some sense into the people's minds. This may be Maruti's way of showing that they make safer cars also (?)
Want to see results of the Celerio and the Grand i10 too.
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Old 15th March 2014, 13:52   #209
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Suzuki's India built SWIFT undergoes the Global NCAP test.

Intergrity of cabin is fairly good. Structure stabilty seems more than most of the prviously tested indian built cars tested earlier(Jan 2014), but less than the Polo though. (excerpts from Analyst)

Results will be declared in ~ 2 weeks time (from now) after anlaysis.

ZXI variant chosen since this is a test applicable to the Latin American market too.

Cheers!

Source:NDTV

Last edited by volkman10 : 15th March 2014 at 14:03.
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Old 15th March 2014, 17:46   #210
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Its sorry to note the comments from Nissan. I just wish that all cars sold in India comes with configurable safety options like 2-6 Airbags, ESP, ABS, ASR, TCS, EBD.

I understand the recent tests were on cars 'Made In India'. Do we know if the i10s, Micras, Swifts exported from India bear a different standard than what is sold for local market?

Also, any idea the new Honda City's NCAP rating?
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