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Old 13th September 2015, 19:37   #316
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Originally Posted by amvj View Post
I have lost all my faith with these guys. So all are selling us tin cans. The best thing is move out from this country.
Not every one is selling us tin cans, brands like Ford, Fiat, VW and Skoda sell cars which are built very well but people do not consider them because they do have have resale or service levels which can match those of tin cans.

You can either buy tin cans with great resale or service compromising on your safety or you can compromise on resale/service but you can get a car which will save you and your family in case of a mishap, choice is entirely yours.

Swift is even more poorly built than Hyundai cars, if you do buy it, atleast get the top end with dual airbags + abs.
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Old 21st September 2015, 18:56   #317
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Default Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Guys, sorry if this might be a bit off-topic, but is there an online resource that lists and compares the NCAP ratings for all cars for sale in India and is updated regularly?

I've tried looking but didn't come across anything of this sort.
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Old 21st September 2015, 19:50   #318
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post

Swift is even more poorly built than Hyundai cars, if you do buy it, atleast get the top end with dual airbags + abs.
I remember seeing that TV show (Car and Bike Show) where the Swift was tested. But Siddharth Patankar said he'd be getting back with more details of the test results soon, but I don't think he has.

Does anyone have information on how it fared in the NCAP test?
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Old 21st September 2015, 20:26   #319
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

The 2 airbags made in India (ZXI) version was tested for Latin NCAP and it got 3 stars. Results here: http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/su...airbags_en.pdf
It gives poor protection to thighs and feet. Injuries to feet was also pointed out by some members in the accidents thread.
The Body shell Integrity was judged as "Unstable".

Last edited by jetti : 21st September 2015 at 20:28.
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Old 21st September 2015, 20:48   #320
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
Not every one is selling us tin cans, brands like Ford, Fiat, VW and Skoda sell cars which are built very well but people do not consider them because they do have have resale or service levels which can match those of tin cans.
I can confirm, hands down, that the cars sold in Europe ARE NOT the same as the ones sold in India.

All cars sole in Europe should pass the EuroNCAP, which stands for European national car assessment program. There are various tests that take place, ranging from Front crash, rear crash, side crash, roof crash etc. For example, EuroNCAP frontal crash takes place at 56kmph. A car is crash tested with dummies sitting as driver/passenger and points are awarded to the car based on how they react. There are 100s of points that have to be considered to assess the rating of a car sold in Europe. Points like, footwell intrusion, firewall intrusion, airbag contact points, force on dummy neck, force on dummy chest etc. A lot of them basically. And they are quite stringent about it. They dont take it lightly.

The VW Polo passed EuroNCAP with a 5-star rating.
http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/vw/polo/11069

The i10 passed EuroNCAP with a 4-star rating.
http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/hyundai/i10/7868

In India, the cars are stripped down of vital strengthening profiles in the front rail, underbody, B-pillar, top hat and the rear door, for weight reasons. A typical consumer, does not think of the active safety and passive safety features that comes in a car. He is more interested in how much it travels per liter of petrol/diesel which directly comes down from how much the cars weigh. As a result, the cars are stripped down of vital strengthening profiles all around the car. As a result, the force flow takes place through paths that shouldnt even happen.

Thats why, the Alto 800. Nano, Figo, i10 and Polo have been assessed and have either failed miserably or passed on the margin.

http://www.globalncap.org/crash-test...rs-are-unsafe/

Whilst I know that the NCAP in question is the Global NCAP and I elaborated a bit on the EuroNCAP, I think my point still stands that VW and Hyundai still sell tin cans and that just because they are a reputed brand, doesnt mean that their cars are, by default, safer.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 07:50   #321
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Everywhere, when discussions on NCap come, the key word is that the european or equivalent legislation requires that the cars pass the test. But in india we have legislation for engine size for excise benefits. Furthur, Fuel efficiency ratings are to be disclosed by manufacturers.

If they want to stay with those numbers and outshine their competitors, They need to cut out on the weight of the car...and voilà, we have the infamous indian tin can on wheels. And the heavier and arguably safer cars don't sell because for us, they are performance duds, and for the non enthusiast, they are not loaded with features because cost cutting doesn't happen at the structural level. As a result these cars don't do well in the market pulling down the car's market value and thereby reducing it's profitability even more. And the manufacturer finally resorts to the low weight, high on features iteration during the car's next generation release.

So rather than bashing the manufactures, who are drven by profit margins sales numbers and legislation. We should take vent our anger on the government.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 06:39   #322
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

One thought which has always disturbed me is the amount of structural changes which manufactures do on their vehicles before launching in India. I for one always believed that it was mainly done as a cost cutting measure since kerb weights of vehicles sold abroad or in India is same in most of the cases. Hence I would like to believe its cost cutting.

Now coming to the second part of my post- We have innumerable instances where a Fiat has saved lives of its occupants, and it is a proven fact that Fiats are build more solidly than equally priced Marutis(take for example).

Taking into account the above two points, one would think that since Fiats are stronger or heavier, its body shell would cost much more than a similar priced Maruti??

WRONG!!!

Have a look at the pictures below-

1. Punto & Linea body shell price(from 99rpm.com)
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2. Prices of Marutis/Tin cans as they are affectionately called

Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test-4.jpg
Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test-5.jpg
Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test-6.jpg


As it is evident, a small and fragile Zen's shell costs as much as a Punto, while its competetor Swift is almost a lac rupees more. Why are Maruti shells so much expensive despite being weaker & lighter than Punto?? Also a Maruti sells much more than a Fiat, so their shells should be more logically priced, as the break even point is reached much earlier.

I would like to be enlightened by fellow members as the factors which goes into pricing of shell. If its not the cost which is playing the spoilsport, why can't Maruti make stronger shells??

Regards
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 23rd September 2015 at 06:40.
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Old 1st February 2016, 19:46   #323
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Made-in-India Toyota Etios hatchback gets 4-star rating in Global NCAP crash test.




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Source:http://www.globalncap.org/indias-toy...ap-crash-test/

Last edited by volkman10 : 1st February 2016 at 20:15.
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:05   #324
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That is not our indian etios, that is the yaris/etios, completely different platform
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:20   #325
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Made-in-India Toyota Etios hatchback gets 4-star rating in Global NCAP crash test.

Source:http://www.globalncap.org/indias-toy...ap-crash-test/
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitc7 View Post
That is not our indian etios, that is the yaris/etios, completely different platform
Amit, the key point from volkman's post being "Made-IN-India" and not "Made-FOR-India".

Edit: Thanks volkman for the confirmation. I didn't read the link before replying.

Last edited by mrbaddy : 1st February 2016 at 20:28.
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:21   #326
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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post

As it is evident, a small and fragile Zen's shell costs as much as a Punto, while its competetor Swift is almost a lac rupees more. Why are Maruti shells so much expensive despite being weaker & lighter than Punto?? Also a Maruti sells much more than a Fiat, so their shells should be more logically priced, as the break even point is reached much earlier.

I would like to be enlightened by fellow members as the factors which goes into pricing of shell. If its not the cost which is playing the spoilsport, why can't Maruti make stronger shells??

Regards
Shashi

Lighter doesn't mean weaker always. Period.
As technology goes far & wide,the body she'll has become lighter and more efficient in distributing forces,with addition in safety due to crumple zones etc.
If I am not wrong,there are a host of factors determining the prices of the shell. Few hypothetical explanations for the prices of maruthi are,
1. Increased R&D cost for weight reduction.
2. Amount of money lost to Suzuki and fiat in terms of royalty.

For fiat pricing it lower side (comparing the weight of the shell), they MIGHT be using age-old/old-school shell and hadn't spent on R&D in the recent past and also their main source of income from engines & gearbox,injectors etc.

However, all these are just my assumptions with benefit of a doubt as I too have seen maruti cars scoring less stars in crash tests despite their claim of using high tensile materials blah blah!!!.
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:26   #327
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitc7 View Post
That is not our indian etios, that is the yaris/etios, completely different platform
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbaddy View Post
Amit, the key point from volkman's post being "Made-IN-India" and not "Made-FOR-India".
Guys - It is the very same Etios Liva sold here - Made and sold in India!

Excerpts from the article!
Quote:
Global NCAP congratulates Toyota on this voluntary initiative which has resulted in significant safety improvements for the Etios model sold in India. Global NCAP encourages all car manufacturers to follow the safety example set by Toyota and VW to improve occupant protection for all their models sold in India.

“It is impressive to see a major manufacturer achieve a four star result and we look forward to the first five star car in India.”
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:26   #328
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

This is a seriously disturbing thread. Is there one place where I can get information on safety Test results for models being sold in the Indian market?
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:50   #329
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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Guys - It is the very same Etios Liva sold here - Made and sold in India!

Excerpts from the article!
Yes you are right and upon further digging, the rating is for Latin ncap and not euro ncap.
so I'll wait till we get the euro ncap results or equivalent rating, I'm expecting a 2* or worse in the Euro ncap as it does not have ESP nor curtain bags nor pretensioner belts and obviously collision avoidance is also not there.
The above equipment and safety features are available on basic cars in Europe, so why can't we have them? I'm sure everyone will spend an extra 100000 for safety rather then sunroofs and leather seats
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Old 1st February 2016, 20:57   #330
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by VaidhiR View Post
I think my point still stands that VW and Hyundai still sell tin cans and that just because they are a reputed brand, doesnt mean that their cars are, by default, safer.
There is a difference between deleting features such as airbags and weakening the structure. It is true that the made-for-India i10, Swift etc. are structurally weaker than their Euro equivalents but there is no evidence that such compromises have been made in the Polo.

Sure, the Indian Polo Trendline with two airbags is not as safe as the European counterpart with six airbags, ABS (which is a criteria for the final star rating), seatbelt pretensioners etc. As consumers, we deserve to get more safety features in India. However, the Polo's fundamental crash structure appears to be just as good as its European counterpart.


Last edited by McLaren Rulez : 1st February 2016 at 20:58.
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