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Old 31st January 2014, 22:47   #61
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
There is an element of hypocrisy here. We are the same people who pronounce a car a hit or a flop based on Rs. 50,000 over or under. In that scenario can we really blame carmakers for doing in Rome as the Romans do? It's no secret that the top variants of these cars with the safety kit sell the least.
Bang on! There has to be a systemic change. Not enough blaming either the govt or the manufacturers. Like most have pointed out already, its us, the buyers who seem least concerned about our own safety. Its we who need to change. If all of us, on this forum and off it can start educating others about the importance of these safety features, we can make a difference, however small it might be.

My brother-in-law always used to wonder why I'd spent those extra 1000s to have ABS / Airbags when his car without those features worked just fine. But through multiple conversations, links to TBHP threads was able to impress upon him that those few 1000s spent on getting the safety features are well worth it.

He bought a new car last week. Was happy to see ZXI/ABS emblazoned on the rear of the car.
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:31   #62
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by dgupta View Post
Edit: Adding a link to the best in class super-mini in 2013 - Renault Zoe. This page explains in more detail what is measured.
Renault Zoe NCAP rating
Have you seen how much this car weighs?
~1500 KG for a supermini.
Which is at least 150Kg heavier than the heaviest car we have, the Punto.
And, a clean two times the weight of a Alto800, and a 80% over the Liva, Swift etc.

Are the airbags, the ESP unit, the sheet metal adding so much weight?
I guess not.
But, indeed it does take a lot of metal to make a car safe. And all round air bags to add to it, would also add a little weight.

So, can we in India, afford so much safety?
But, keep this example aside, I completely feel, twin airbags are a complete necessity, and seat belt warnings on all seats are also mandatory.
I haven't seen a single person install baby seats in the car. Is a 'Baby on board' sticker all that we can afford for our loved ones?

And the videos were just one such test. These never spoke of side impact, roll over impact etc.
Most cars in India would roll over at even nominal speeds. And did some one mention tyre burst? Our cars have an average of 80 aspect ratio. 85 on our favourite Swift.

All we bother is the starting price, and over it, the mileage. If only a bamboo car with plastic chairs looked as good as the Swift, we would all have bought it.
The Newest Honda City boasts 26Kmpl. This is as bad a marketing gimmick as selling Cameras based on Megapixels.

We sure need newer rules, sticter norms. This for sure would increase the base price a car would be sold in India. There will not be any more Nano projects. 1 lakh rupee cars should go. Reducing taxes on safer cars would help the car buying public in a large way.

Only if the government was always thinking positive, would we have all cried "Corrupt"?
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:49   #63
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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S U N , you may have a point . That man made it out lucky to be alive . BUT it wasn't a complete full frontal . The right wheel hit the divider first right ? Further arguments may be made only when all indian cars are crash tested . Then we can pit them against each other .

Well built cars have that feel , from the thud of the door to the way they drive . you just know they are built tough . Ex : VW's , Fiats etc . Tata and MarutiSuzuki really don't seem that safe like their European competitors .
Mate, did you know that frontal offset impacts are actually more difficult than full frontal impacts? Something to do with the fact that the main crush zones on vehicles are lovated in the middle 50 percent of their front end so small overlap tests don't allow the car to use these crush zones. That is precisely the reason why the full frontal impact tests are conducted at 64kmph while the overlap test is conducted at 56kmph.

Just so you know, my Kizashi is definitely well built but I would say that a Mercedes C-Class, a BMW 3 series or an Audi A4, are even more well built, BUT you can have a look at the IIHS crash test ratings and you will find that the Kizashi has actually outperformed all three of the above mentioned cars. I just want to show you that build quality plays no role in safety ratings and that that, is a common misunderstanding most people have
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:54   #64
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Look at this short article on the same topic.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cheat-sh...t-sheet-477766

Quote:
As a result of the tests, Volkswagen has withdrawn its Polo model without airbags. In a statement the company said, "We have decided to have front dual airbags as standard on the Polo, as our continuing commitment to safer and better driving."

Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai and Ford India have also issued statements saying their cars meet Indian safety regulations.
I want to Maruti, Hyundai and Ford for that statement.

Surprising part is why was the best selling hatch not selected for the test - Swift! Am I missing something here?

Anurag.
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:14   #65
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Never too late to get serious about safety.

5 Years ago i decided that i will not buy any base variants and any variants without ABS and Airbags. Infact tried to convince everyone i know not to buy anything without these features but as someone has rightly said people in India are more concerned about mileage and price than safety. Mileage is important but i guess its high time Government of India introduces some stringent safety norms and removes a bit of duty on petrol and diesel so that people can breathe easy and buy higher safer airbag variants for themselves. Infact more airbags the merrier.

Just a couple of months ago i had a life threatening accident and broke my hand so i definitely think people in India need to be educated to buy cars not without safety gear. I hope all cars are tested including the high and mighty Toyota, Honda, Mercs, Bmws, Audis, etc. Everytime i sit in a car abroad and in India the Indian version feels lighter and flimsier compared to the same car abroad.

Also i feel the statements of the Maruti VP are disappointing. He needs to encourage people to buy more safer variants of their cars.

Would like to just add that Hyundai had 6 airbags standard on top end Verna and Elantra and that was very encouraging but the 2014 editions have gone back to 2 airbags in both the cars. Very disappointing. I shelved the thought of buying an Elantra just for that specific reason. Bad decision Hyundai.

Last edited by M00M : 1st February 2014 at 00:27.
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:22   #66
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Similar to how electric appliances have electricity consumption ratings stuck so proudly by the manufacturer, cars should also have crash safety ratings stuck to the windshield at the showroom. I don't see anyone buying one star air conditioners anymore but the same can't be said about cars though. The nano deserves negative stars. Ridiculously unsafe that thing is on the highway but then again, it's not meant to be driven on the highways anyways.
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:32   #67
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
While I like the whole initiative, I can't wonder where the NCAP got the idea and the funding for this. I wouldn't be surprised if soon, a competing small car manufacturer/new entrant launches a small car with airbags standard, and safety as its USP.


Volkswagen seems to have already announced airbag as standard on all polos from Feb 1. Looks bit more of a coincidence that the only model tested with airbags was a polo.

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2014 at 16:51. Reason: Typo
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:49   #68
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Default Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

(Edit : I guess this comment is OT, so mods may remove this post if they feel so.)

Just saw the news on TV. Something that's too fishy is that NDTV has suddenly got overtly serious compared to before. Asif they didn't know before how dangerous it could be. I'm seeing this as a "Goodwill Gathering' strategy by NDTV. Moreso because off late Indian media had lost a large part of its credibility among viewers.

But, if it is true that Airbags cost less than 50$ per piece, then these automakers seriously need to be NOTHING short of literally whipped bare back.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 1st February 2014 at 01:01.
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:55   #69
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Have made it a point to go only for top spec models even if I have to go a segment down.

While buying the Figo, I had the option of i20 Sportz or Swift VDi. Went for the Figo only for the ABS and airbags.
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Old 1st February 2014, 00:57   #70
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

I don't see much value in most of the posts in this thread. Even in this esteemed motoring forum, 100s of posts can be pulled out to show how 'WE' still prefer many convenience features over safety, many even proudly claiming airbags and abs useless for city and things like that. Do we think that 'these people' don't have education?

Like a couple of members said, it's about priority.

No use in blaming govt, tax, policy and manufacturers.
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Old 1st February 2014, 01:07   #71
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

I don't get one point: the base VW Polo w/o airbags can't even pass the basic UN safety test, but with airbags gets a 4 star! How can that be? And if airbags are that effective, then I guess even an Alto 800 will benefit from one, which apparently it can't!

Also, why were the Swift and the Scorpio, the market leaders in their respective segments, left out?

From whatever I've gathered, on a tight budget, I'll buy a Figo. Fullstop. Structural integrity counts more than anything else.

As for the manufacturers adding safety features, it's a waste of resources. How many people buckle up outside the metros? And how many of us "petrolheads" do so when sitting in the rear? And when was the last time you adjusted the head restraint?

I rest my case.
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Old 1st February 2014, 01:42   #72
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

If I am not mistaken, Euro NCAP is a non government organization and the cars to be tested have be volunteered by the manufacturers. That's probably the reason for not testing being so concise.

One issue of making airbags mandatory is the resulting increase in injuries to occupants not wearing seatbelts. At the moment, most of the people who spec their cars with airbags have enough brain cells to wear their seatbelts. That wont be the case if you get airbags whether you want them or not.

Also, I don't think whether how solid a car feels or the thickness of its metal has got much to do with how safe the car is. If I read the initial posts correctly, the issue with the Indian cars was that they economized on some internal structural reinforcements. Your doors may have an imperial thud but your A pillar may still behave like a wet noodle.
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Old 1st February 2014, 05:58   #73
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

I was always given a lecture by most of the people around me on how and why I spent the extra money for getting a TITANIUM variant in the figo while I was offered a decent discount on the ZXI and LXI variant. The only point they had to say was " You cannot do more than 50-60 in the city, why do you need ABS, Air Bags? you are paying a lot of money just to get ABS and airbags which are of no use in the city. "

I Never cared, I never will. After watching these crash test videos and seeing the results, I am so glad that I spent that extra hard earned money on safety. One of the rant lover was a manager of mine who drives an i10. I showed him the video and he was shocked to see the results. For once, I could talk and he couldn't help it but listen.
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Old 1st February 2014, 08:56   #74
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Though most of us were aware of the safety record of these cars considered, still worried of the large number of people who has opted(still opting) for the best seller in India. Hope they use it well within City limits at limited speeds alone.

As many have asked, how did they select these cars to test?
2 Indian, 1 Korean, 1 German and 1 American?

Why is that adjustment of considering a higher variant of Polo when its base variant has failed? European?

Why not Chevy Spark, Wagon-R, Micra, Punto, I20, Liva (This would massively fail i believe), Verito, The BIG question INDIAN SWIFT? If they are a segment higher then why Polo and Figo?

And clear me out of this doubt Are all these cars requested from manufacturers to test it? or just pick some customer car and test it - which will give manufacturers no chance to workaround on any structural aspects purposefully. Figo does not have a body colored door handle in base variant in India as shown in the Video while Polo matches (Black door handles and ORVM's).

Last but not the least, the current Government trying to gain some good name at least before moving out might very well bring this in to gain some name though we know they are never going to come to power again this time .

THANKS a lot to EURO NCAP for conducting this test for us and publishing it. Hope Indian media reports it widely to let the vast population be aware of it.

O.T: One more bad news for the already struggling TATA Nano. High time they come up with some safety features and start marketing on that against their competitors rather than adding a chrome strip front and back! I know this will add to a huge cost but better re-launch it with NANO Europa styling on a segment to pull more youth and start growing with Modern India.

O.T: Thanks to Team-bhp, I went for the ZDI. Wish Govt brings in some awareness program on seat belt and Helmet. It must be made mandatory for channels to telecast it at least 10 times a day and News papers to use half a page for this. We would be happy to see that than Prime minister and Congress leader's photos for publicity

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2014 at 16:53. Reason: No more than 2 smileys a post please
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Old 1st February 2014, 09:04   #75
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Why am i not surprised? I always used to wonder what would happen if these cars crash.
I have seen lots of accidents and pity for people who suffer injuries just because they wanted more mileage.
The car scene in India I'm afraid is not good regarding safety. Thank god seat belts are compulsory in many cities which brings down the fatality.
But i think we or the government should preach safety and people should invest more in safety equipments.
I hope they crash test more cars as soon as possible.
Would love to know how the XUV fares at this test.
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