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Old 1st February 2014, 13:58   #91
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by manjubp View Post
Around 8 months back I cam across a gentleman working in Ford Chennai as quality Engineer. During discussion, I came to know that he was looking for a car for his uncle, and he was very clear that Figo will not be one, as he mentioned the difference between Export and the local figo, in terms of number of crossbars reduced, thickness cross bars, the weight of chassis used in the Indian version.
Only because he knows about the Figo as he is an insider to Ford. I am now pretty sure that most of the cars produced for India are produced differently. Now our best bet can only be looking for ABS+EBD+Airbags in whatever car you choose. At least, this one can see!
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:09   #92
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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While I like the whole initiative, I can't wonder where the NCAP got the idea and the funding for this. I wouldn't be surprised if soon, a competing small car manufacturer/new entrant launches a small car with airbags standard, and safety as its USP.
I don't know what interest did Global NCAP have with Indian cars, but the funding comes from FIA.
http://www.fiafoundation.org/Pages/homepage.aspx

I am happy to see media activity around this exercise.
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:16   #93
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

What about the FIATs and Hondas? Any info. I am curious to know if structural changes have been made on Indian made vehicles as compared to these same products sold abroad? What exactly has been done and how much of this has been done to improve fuel efficiency? Finally all this takes me back to the maruti advts... Kitna deti hain? That is the crux of the problem, being efficient must not be at the risk of safety. Is it not possible to have minimum safety requirements upgraded so that all manufacturers realign with international standards.
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:30   #94
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Having gone through the thread, I can see that many here have not read through the entire article on the global ncap website. The only reason why a Polo with 2 airbags and abs was tested was because Volkwagen requested the Global NCAP to do so since they vowed that they would now offer dual airbags and abs as standard in every variant including the base model. As company responses goes, while I am not a fan of the Volkswagen Auto Group, I have to applaud their's. Hope that clears the air for most.

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I believe this kind of testing is blatantly silly and hypocritical. What sense is there in crashing a car, only head-on, with a hard object at 64kmph?
Sir, is there any reason to do further tests; small overlap, side impact, rollover etc. when these cars have failed so miserably in an easy test like full frontal collision at a mere 64kmph? Oh and actually, past reinforcements and proper welding, there is nothing one can do today about a car's A-Pillar strength. This is the reason why governments and safety organizations across the world have agreed that it ought to be mandatory for trucks to have under-run bars on every side of a certain minimum height.
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:41   #95
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by manjubp View Post
Around 8 months back I cam across a gentleman working in Ford Chennai as quality Engineer. During discussion, I came to know that he was looking for a car for his uncle, and he was very clear that Figo will not be one, as he mentioned the difference between Export and the local figo, in terms of number of crossbars reduced, thickness cross bars, the weight of chassis used in the Indian version. It is very clear that while the outer layer and the interior skin remains same, internally it is completely a different vehicle. Having driven Swift in Canada and owned one in India, I can clearly see that under the skin, they are built very differently.

So this made me to look at VW vehicles, as atleast I read somewhere that VW India head mentioned that what they design for Europe is what they manufacture in India, no short cuts. Hence their costing is expansive. However not sure how true is this.
The Polo manufactured here in india is the same as European version. but to reduce the cost, VW have made only few changes for indian version like Hard touch dashboard, Semi Clear lens tail lamps and few other changes like wheel size. but there is no compromise in the sheet metal. when i had visited factory, they mentioned that they import steel from Germany.
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Old 1st February 2014, 14:59   #96
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Safety should be the first priority. No doubt about this.

If the economics does not work for Indian manufacturers, I suggest Govt should incentivise auto industry to mandate basic safety features in our vehicles.
For example Govt can reduce/eliminate excise duty on basic safety equipment like ABS & air bags.

Big leap will be to make crash test mandatory & guess this is already in pipeline with 2015 as target date.



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Originally Posted by ganesc View Post

As many have asked, how did they select these cars to test?
2 Indian, 1 Korean, 1 German and 1 American?
I am also wondering on what basis the cars were chosen?

They could have been selected by monthly sales nos which would have also given some idea about no. of lives at risk on Indian roads.

Wagon-R, Swift & Dzire, the highest selling cars after Alto, should have been part of this exercise.
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Old 1st February 2014, 16:01   #97
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by S.MJet View Post
Safety should be the first priority. No doubt about this.

If the economics does not work for Indian manufacturers, I suggest Govt should incentivise auto industry to mandate basic safety features in our vehicles.
For example Govt can reduce/eliminate excise duty on basic safety equipment like ABS & air bags.

Big leap will be to make crash test mandatory & guess this is already in pipeline with 2015 as target date.


I am also wondering on what basis the cars were chosen?

They could have been selected by monthly sales nos which would have also given some idea about no. of lives at risk on Indian roads.

Wagon-R, Swift & Dzire, the highest selling cars after Alto, should have been part of this exercise.



The may have selected small cars from all manufacturers, if only Alto, WagonR, Estilo, Dezire etc were chosen then it would seem like a crusade against Maruti in particular.

If one wants to protect a vehicle from frontal impact than a strengthening has to take place. There should be sturdy cross member beams to protect the engine from intruding into the cabin space. The steering wheel must break on impact, and telescope inwards into the instrument binnacle to prevent head and chest injuries to the driver.

If we watch the videos closely, there is a common story on the kind of injuries to the driver and co driver. Most of it, is in the head, the upper torso, until the upper arm, and nothing much on the legs, suggesting that all cars did manage to prevent the engine or its accessory from intruding into the passenger cabin.
Most of the head and upper shoulder injuries took place because the dummies banged into the dashboard plastic .

Please check this video out, it speaks of Tata motor's commitment towards safety, including side beam impact safety. . I am sure other makers have something similar available.
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Old 1st February 2014, 16:02   #98
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
According to EuroNcap, the International Punto scores 4 stars. The International Swift and many other hatchbacks including the Polo scores full 5 Stars. Hence, they have fared better than the Punto in safety. I am using the the term 'International' as we still don't have the clarity that by how much the manufacturers skim their cars before selling in India.
Doesn't the Punto also have 5 star rating? That's what I have read in team bhp and also on the EuroNcap site. Both Punto and Polo had driver, co passenger as well as side airbags in the test. In India we don't get side airbags on the polo/punto. Also I had checked out the Punto when I was in Zurich and the build didn't feel different although the interiors were better and panel gaps tighter. So I hope the Indian punto is not different from the international one. But for sure I can never know whether something has been changed on the inside. I couldn't check the polo and so I was doubtful whether the Indian one was as good as the European because my Polo although solid isn't as sturdy as my linea. And I am happy VW didn't skimp on safety. And what we see in a crash test is actually passive safety. Which means the protection offered during a crash. On active safety(for preventing a crash) I find the Punto/linea better than the polo due to excellent brakes and dynamics. I have felt Polo's brakes inadequate and the ABS not kicking in as much as in the linea. It did land me in trouble once. So I made the above statement. And I didn't compare swift here because I am pretty sure the Indian ones are different from the foreign ones. Sorry didn't mean to hurt any one.
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Old 1st February 2014, 16:10   #99
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Only because he knows about the Figo as he is an insider to Ford. I am now pretty sure that most of the cars produced for India are produced differently. Now our best bet can only be looking for ABS+EBD+Airbags in whatever car you choose. At least, this one can see!
There is bound to be a difference as our country need FE as a priority instead of safety so weight and necessary safety equipment will be skimped off. Same car in EU/US/Japan will be sturdier and having more features and the issue is people buy it and don't go after lower end variants like in India.

The other part is the buying power is lesser in India as compared to the rest where a family who dreams of a 2-wheeler have stretched their budget way ahead to get Alto 800 is itself great but the safety is left behind as the OTR will be too high for them so they quietly (knowingly or unknowingly) stick to LX or LXi.

EMI, taxes etc all do increase and is a one-time investment so seeing big figure on paper they are worried hence settle for lower variants. Who has to be blamed I am not sure but there has to be some incentives/discounts on top-end variants so people are encouraged to buy it and more incentive to manufacturers for selling top-end ones.

Anurag.
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Old 1st February 2014, 16:53   #100
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

The point is, the safety features should be in all variants and not just the top end ones!
If done on a mass scale, the cost should be very low indeed. There are always subsidies that the govt. can offer to cushion the price impact.

The list for euroNCAP is very high
1.TCS
2.AEB (Autonomous emergency braking)
3.ABS

All these have to be in EVERY CAR.
Doesn't matter big or small, cheap or expensive.
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Old 1st February 2014, 17:06   #101
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by H_Dogg72 View Post
The point is, the safety features should be in all variants and not just the top end ones!
If done on a mass scale, the cost should be very low indeed. There are always subsidies that the govt. can offer to cushion the price impact.

The list for euroNCAP is very high
1.TCS
2.AEB (Autonomous emergency braking)
3.ABS

All these have to be in EVERY CAR.
Doesn't matter big or small, cheap or expensive.
I agree but if there is demand for the safety features and well accepted by the mass-market then I don't think manufacturers will shy away in providing the same.

If there is no demand then why will they produce and loose market value + create dead inventory? We as customers should wake up and DEMAND safety as STANDARD all across the range then only something will happen.

Anurag.
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Old 1st February 2014, 17:11   #102
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree but if there is demand for the safety features and well accepted by the mass-market then I don't think manufacturers will shy away in providing the same.

If there is no demand then why will they produce and loose market value + create dead inventory? We as customers should wake up and DEMAND safety as STANDARD all across the range then only something will happen.

Anurag.
The point is ,if all the manufacturers include all the aforementioned safety features on all their cars (all models),Then there will be no choice to the customer about getting a less safer "cheaper" variant.

That's the mass market thing i'm talking about .
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Old 1st February 2014, 18:28   #103
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
There is bound to be a difference as our country need FE as a priority instead of safety so weight and necessary safety equipment will be skimped off. Same car in EU/US/Japan will be sturdier and having more features and the issue is people buy it and don't go after lower end variants like in India.
Even the manufacturers may give the above as a reason for not providing safety features as standard (in India). But the fact is, globally manufacturers are on an overdrive to improve on efficiency, and weight reduction is one area they keenly look at – to improve FE and reduce emissions. Usage of lighter materials (without compromising on structural rigidity), or even some manufacturers’ insistence on doing away with the spare wheel, is all part of that. In India, manufacturers play by the rule (or lack of it), skimp on minimum safety features so that they can churn out the most efficient car in its class.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree but if there is demand for the safety features and well accepted by the mass-market then I don't think manufacturers will shy away in providing the same.
Sorry, but that should not be the case. If popular demand is considered as a parameter, none of our cars should have seats belts for the rear passengers. I am sure that majority of our commuters are not bothered to belt up when seated in the rear bench.

Accidents and fatalities/injuries due that are exceptions in developed markets, but for us it’s a way of life, and hence the lighter attitude towards safety.
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Old 1st February 2014, 19:04   #104
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Not sure why the govt. has been sleeping on this. Cars have become faster in the past decade or so as engine power has risen. Roads have become better, so people are more likely to drive faster. All the more reason to ensure safety inc ars.
Surely, even if there is no facility in India for testing these, this activity could have been outsourced to one of many such across the world. Is it to be expected that this thought has not occurred to a country which takes pride in providing a host of outsourcing services to the world?

Last edited by mayjay : 1st February 2014 at 19:11.
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Old 1st February 2014, 19:27   #105
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
According to EuroNcap, the International Punto scores 4 stars. The International Swift and many other hatchbacks including the Polo scores full 5 Stars. Hence, they have fared better than the Punto in safety. I am using the the term 'International' as we still don't have the clarity that by how much the manufacturers skim their cars before selling in India.
Sorry, no offense, but I guess this is wrong information. According to the Euroncap official website, 4 stars is for the 2000 model Punto, the previous generation one. Grande Punto (2005) has got full 5 stars for adult safety. They dont give an overall rating for the pre-2009 evaluations, but the 5 stars for adult safety is definitely impressive, considering the adult safety ratings of the International Swift of 2005, SX4(2006) and even Grand Vitara(2007)were 4 stars.
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