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Old 10th February 2014, 13:02   #31
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Default Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

Frankly, the interiors of the new Jazz shown here is bit of a downer for me. The older version which I own had really nicely designed and premium looking interiors while this one looks a bit dull. And what with taking away features like steering audio controls which was present in the older version? I don't think Honda will do that.. More likely, they will space out the variants of Jazz and keep the launch price of the base variant low unlike last time where the base variant was almost fully loaded. I am sure the top variants will get steering audio controls and ACC. Competition has moved ahead and Honda can't skimp on features of what is going to be positioned as a 'premim' hatch.

On the exterior front, they have done a great job! The new jazz looks sporty and stunning. The front grille looks much better than the City and the Volvo-inspired tail lamps look classy. Sure to turn eyeballs!
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Old 10th February 2014, 13:08   #32
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Loved Honda's new products.

Problem being, they are trying to be more defensive.

Loved the new Jazzz. Would appreciate Honda, only if honda prices it below Amaze.

As others, even i didnt like the interior quality levels. But, i think, there is a problem with our taxing standards. I see the same problems in all other vehicles being sold in india.
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Old 10th February 2014, 13:57   #33
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The mid-variant of the Jazz looks promising. With just Airbags, No OEM ICE, no fog lights, no magic seats. Honda should be able to price it competatively.

Obviously the top-end will get the full kit like alloys, ABS, dual airbags, music system, sterring controls, etc.

On a side note, hope Honda corrects the Brio's pricing. The current top end MT is just shy of 40-50k lesser than the Swift. The swift definately comes with more kit and premiumness. Its head-on competition Grand i10 has everything better than it apart from a slightly lower power and FE by about 10%.

But since Honda is fully capitalising on the new City and Amaze demand, doubt it will shift foscus to others unless the prouduction capacity is increased.

The Mobilio's dashboard looks horrible for a 10 lakh rupee car.
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Old 10th February 2014, 15:48   #34
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Default Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Loved Honda's new products.

Problem being, they are trying to be more defensive.

Loved the new Jazzz. Would appreciate Honda, only if honda prices it below Amaze.
Can you please tell us why do you think Jazz should be priced below Amaze? Jazz beats the Amaze in almost every department other than the engines which should be the same and probably the boot space which is similar
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:03   #35
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Default Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

Amaze is a made to price product where as Jazz/ Fit is a no baby of cost cutting but just that the City has been clipped of its boot to get one.

IMO the Jazz will still be the premium hatch that it once was except for the fact that it get that iDTEC motor to push up sales. It may well fight the i20 head on this time unlike its earlier avatar.
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:08   #36
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Can you please tell us why do you think Jazz should be priced below Amaze? Jazz beats the Amaze in almost every department other than the engines which should be the same and probably the boot space which is similar
Because, The only reason is Amaze is a Sedan (~ Notch back with a boot) and Jazz is a Hatch back.

As per Indian standards, Hatches should cost less than Sedan versions. Exceptions being Luxury brands.

Polo is cheaper than Vento.
Swift is cheaper than Dzire

If the pricing is not appropriate, then it will definitely be doomed. And by the way whats more in Jazz, which isn't available in Amaze? ohh.. build quality.. but except it, whats more will be the question from Aam junta? I don't think Honda has an answer for this.

Last edited by gemi_kk : 10th February 2014 at 17:10. Reason: Changing statement.
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:29   #37
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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Because, The only reason is Amaze is a Sedan (~ Notch back with a boot) and Jazz is a Hatch back.

As per Indian standards, Hatches should cost less than Sedan versions. Exceptions being Luxury brands.

Polo is cheaper than Vento.
Swift is cheaper than Dzire

If the pricing is not appropriate, then it will definitely be doomed. And by the way whats more in Jazz, which isn't available in Amaze? ohh.. build quality.. but except it, whats more will be the question from Aam junta? I don't think Honda has an answer for this.
Totally flawed argument.
City is the sedan version of Jazz whereas Amaze is the sedan version of Brio.
Jazz is built on a much superior worldwide platform whereas Amaze is built on a built-to-cost platform targeted to emerging economies And there is quite a big difference in quality of the two in terms of build quality, safety, interior quality plus interior and exterior design. Have you sat inside an Amaze and a Jazz? If yes, the difference should be very much obvious.
Vento is sedan version of Polo and Dzire of Swift. And yes, Jazz will be at least a couple of lakhs cheaper than the City. So, whats your point?

Just because the Amaze is shaped like a sedan and Jazz like a hatchback, Jazz should be priced lower?

I know the herd mentality of Aam Junta. But my question was to you - why do you think so? Can you give your reasons please?

Last edited by adimicra : 10th February 2014 at 17:33.
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:33   #38
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Why previous Jazz tanked? Cos Honda priced it at a premium when no one was ready for premium hatchbacks. Time has changed a bit all thanks to i20. Judging by prices of new city am sure jazz will exactly be priced as i20, maybe slightly lower but definitely not higher.
It would have been my first choice hatchback if I ever wanted one purely on the basis of so much space it provides.
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:38   #39
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Default Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

I don't expect the Jazz to be lower than Amaze for sure. Looking the overall build quality it is way superior than the Amaze and definitely commands a premium.

Honda till now was the only manufacturer with this problem as it had Brio -> Amaze and now will have Jazz -> City.

Hyundai will see the same problems now with the Xcent. The Xcent will be priced above the Grand i10 but what is above the Grand i10? It's the i20. So i20 will in effect be similarly priced than the Xcent. To top it off the i20 hatch has a better diesel engine than the Xcent sedan. When the new i20 comes out later this year it may even go above the Xcent.

This overlap is bound to happen. Given the choice, I would pick the Jazz over the Amaze any day. The larger population may not think that way which is the only hurdle the Jazz needs to overcome.
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Old 10th February 2014, 17:58   #40
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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
Kudos to Honda for providing us the same cheap interiors in the Mobilio too. So their attitude is simple, you buy our any car, be it 5-6 L rupee Brio, 7-9 L rupee Amaze or 10-12 L rupee Mobilio, you will get exactly same cheap interiors only. You will feel at home in all 3 cars. Thanks Honda for treating us (India) as a third world country
Bud the Mobilio is built on the Brio Platform and hence using the same components and parts makes sense to maximize the profitability. Also that is the main reason behind building a car on an existing platform. The Mobilio in India, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore will have the same interiors. We are not getting any step motherly treatment.
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Old 10th February 2014, 18:02   #41
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Totally flawed argument.
City is the sedan version of Jazz whereas Amaze is the sedan version of Brio.
Jazz is built on a much superior worldwide platform whereas Amaze is built on a built-to-cost platform targeted to emerging economies And there is quite a big difference in quality of the two in terms of build quality, safety, interior quality plus interior and exterior design.

Vento is sedan version of Polo and Dzire of Swift. And yes, Jazz will be at least a couple of lakhs cheaper than the City. So, whats your point?

Just because the Amaze is shaped like a sedan and Jazz like a hatchback, Jazz should be priced lower?

I know the herd mentality of Aam Junta. But my question was to you - why do you think so? Can you give your reasons please?
What matters to me is not important. Anyways, I would go by the Aam junta way. If jazz is priced more than amaze, i would go for amaze. It would fetch me better resale value. Product will survive longer. Means, no problem with spares & service. Some decent goodwill in society. No one will say to me, that "i drive a discontinued model". And anyways, i never exceed 3000 RPM. so it shouldn't matter. (Of course it matters, but i don't earn in Dollars to keep on loosing money on depreciation and service.). And even Amaze has an air bag version.

I agree that the quality levels of both these models are quite different. But the actual chassis quality is isn't visible to the customers. The seats quality is covered by the local *bling* covers. The doors are almost same. Okay, the dash looks a bit premium. But still, i don't think that it is a deal breaker to buy Jazz. Okay, it comes with an Airbag, which is often considered as a negative.

I have one question for you. The Jazz costs around 13K pounds in UK. and it costs ~16-18K in USD. In these markets, the tax is a bit less, when compared to ours. So Honda can deliver Jazz with premium quality. Will they be able to deliver the same quality levels in our market by pricing it at 7Lakh, of which a flat 20 + % is tax? Will they ever sell it in more volumes than Amaze?
Why brio Failed, despite being a cheaper car? Isnt the reason being price more than Maruti's products?
The Jazz sits in the lowest price bracket in the above markets, so it is acceptable in those markets. But in our market, there are atleast a dozen cars which will be cheaper than this. why would one want to buy Jazz.

Last edited by gemi_kk : 10th February 2014 at 18:07. Reason: Adding value
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Old 10th February 2014, 18:36   #42
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Default Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

^^ @gemi_kk: Thanks for your reply. You can go the Aam Junta way, that's your wish.
I don't know if spares is a problem as Jazz has lot of components shared with City. But, time will tell.
FYI - Jazz is not always positioned in the lowest price bracket. In Signapore, it is priced even above the City!
Honda is localizing lot of components in the Jazz. So, whether they will be able to maintain the same quality standards is something we have to wait and watch.

@Vid: I agree with you on the overlap. Honda's problem is even more than Hyundai. In case of Hyunddai, The XCent will have more rear legroom and bootspace than I20. But, in case of Honda, I guess Jazz will have similar rear legroom and bootspace as Amaze. But, again, the 1.4 diesel in I20 is a much superior engine.
It is for Honda to justify the premium for Jazz by promoting the virtues of the car. And I think the market is matured enough now and people are willing to buy a hatchback for 8-9L if they see value. Honda needs to show them the value which I think is there.
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Old 10th February 2014, 19:06   #43
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Happy to see the new jazz. Av been eagerly awaiting for its launch to replace my figo.
As for the pricing, as long as the fully loaded diesel is below the polo gt tdi I guess it should find some takers.

The only reason am keen on the jazz is space and honda reliability. And the fact that the car is sold in Europe gives u the assurance of certain basic safety compliance (correct me If I'm wrong). This is a huuugee factor when compared to the amaze. So am expecting honda to price it above the amaze. Hopefully the top end comes with 6 airbags. Fingers crossed.
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Old 10th February 2014, 19:13   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
whats more will be the question from Aam junta? I don't think Honda has an answer for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I don't expect the Jazz to be lower than Amaze for sure. Looking the overall build quality it is way superior than the Amaze and definitely commands a premium.
gemi_kk: Agree with your point that Amaze might end up to be a better selling car than Jazz, but the former is so poor in quality that there is space for a good hatch up there. If it had atleast the same build and interior feel as DZire - would have been a closer contest- but no- Amaze makes no effort to hide its cheap sedan identity- be it the dashboard or the paint or the metal thickness. And this could very well work in favour of the Jazz.

Would the aam junta favour Jazz instead of the Xcents, DZires and Figo sedans - now that remains to be seen.

PS- My parents are going through this decision process. Amaze has been rejected. DZire has been rejected because I doubt if MS has experienced automatic gearbox technicians in TVM. Wait for the Jazz is on! I have a feeling Hyundai Xcent will also be a close competitor due to a good balance of price + quality.
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Old 10th February 2014, 19:23   #45
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Question Re: Honda @ Auto Expo 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
The new Jazz is expected towards the end of the year and this time, will feature an oil burner similar to the City and Amaze.
Thanks Rehaan. Great coverage. Liked the Mobilio and the Jazz in particular. Nice pictures too!

A peek into the Jazz boot would have been wonderful !!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
I am wondering why Honda is not coming out with the tech specs for the Mobilio.

...

If they come up with the 1.6L, then it will be an icing on the cake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
It cannot come with a 1.6L engine as that engine is not for Indian market. The 1.5L i-DTEC engine is specially designed for India. And they cannot give a higher state of tune than the City cause the City is the more premium product.

RWD is also not possible as it's based on the Brio platform which was never designed for RWD.
Are there any plans to get the bigger powerful engines to India in 2015?

What is the road-map for the Civic in India?
I recall reading earlier when it was pulled off the sales, Honda saying that they would want to relaunch it only when their oil burner is ready.

Did they have any information in that direction?

I am sure they can see that there is enough room for competition in the D1 / D2 segments.


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