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Old 23rd April 2014, 22:39   #16
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
No, there is no superior quality level. Assembly line concept itself would fail. They have more safety features. But that is due to law. If the same law is passed here(which SIAM cartel will never allow), the same higher spec cars will be sold in India too.
I have heard that the number of paint coats for Indian Hyundai i20s and export i20s are different.

I don't think changing the quality of the components is going to make the assembly line concept fail. A lot of components are supplied by vendors, and it shouldn't be difficult for the manufacturer to ask the vendor to supply components at different quality levels. Different part numbers for different assembly lines or different part numbers during a particular period of assembly, is going to produce cars of two different quality.

This can be at manufacturer level too, if the company can use same engines at different state of tunes, can't it vary other attributes between its cars?

All the manufacturers are here to make profit, knowing the funny Indian laws and funny Indian authorities, I'm sure they all are having a ball of a time selling skimmed cars in India.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 23rd April 2014 at 22:40.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 23:07   #17
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

Yes indeed, the Western markets are very demanding and have very stringent quality levels that these auto makers must comply with. The US market is the most difficult to penetrate.When Hyundai first ever exported the Pony in 1986 to the US market, quality checks showed "poor quality" and these were labelled as "cheap imports from Asia" by Americans. Hyundai took a long time to establish itself in the US market and now the Sonata and Elantra are among the Top 20 best selling car models in the US market.

The Mahindra Scorpio is taking so much of R&D efforts to get launched as a pick-up in the US market.

On the whole, the stringent quality demands (safety, emission, reliability)of the Western markets compel the car makers to make better cars for the Western markets.Their laws are also consumer oriented and any claim for damages due to inferior design or quality are rebuffed by the law courts, that award huge amounts in damages. The award of such damages, lowers the market esteem of the auto maker and dents its reputation.

So all these factors play important roles, whenever any car maker tries to tap the Western markets.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 23rd April 2014 at 23:13.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 23:38   #18
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

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Hyundai and Nissan are committed to export their cars from India.They have basically made India a manufacturing hub for supplies to nearby Asian and other markets.
Hyundai has the India plant alone to cater to the entire Asian and Australian markets while Suzuki has its own plants in Thailand and Japan in addition to the Maruti facilities in India for these markets. So the numbers would naturally be skewed because of that.

From what I know, neither Hyundai nor Suzuki exports vehicles made in India to Western Europe. Suzuki primarily relies on its plant in Hungary while Hyundai relies on the one in Turkey.

Nissan's numbers are quite surprising though, since they have plants in Thailand, China and Indonesia to cater to the various Asian markets. Most likely, Nissan is leveraging India as the export hub for Europe unlike others and that is definitely a good sign.

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Doesn't China have even cheaper labour cost? Or is it that they are already exporting from China as well
Problem with China is that you can get the car made with cheaper labour cost but some Chinese company would immediately start making a carbon copy of it and apply a patent for it! Also, "Made in China" cars are not something people outside China would usually prefer to have. So the cost savings may not always end up as a profitable venture.

Last edited by zenren : 23rd April 2014 at 23:40.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 23:46   #19
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Hyundai has the India plant alone to cater to the entire Asian and Australian markets while Suzuki has its own plants in Thailand and Japan in addition to the Maruti facilities in India for these markets. So the numbers would naturally be skewed because of that.

From what I know, neither Hyundai nor Suzuki exports vehicles made in India to Western Europe. Suzuki primarily relies on its plant in Hungary while Hyundai relies on the one in Turkey.

Nissan's numbers are quite surprising though, since they have plants in Thailand, China and Indonesia to cater to the various Asian markets. Most likely, Nissan is leveraging India as the export hub for Europe unlike others and that is definitely a good sign.



Problem with China is that you can get the car made with cheaper labour cost but some Chinese company would immediately start making a carbon copy of it and apply a patent for it! Also, "Made in China" cars are not something people outside China would usually prefer to have. So the cost savings may not always end up as a profitable venture.
From what I understand India is the global hub for small Hyundai cars - so i10s and i20s in Western Europe are Made in India.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 23:53   #20
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

Though this thread is going way too Offtopic

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Originally Posted by nik0502 View Post
I have been to a vendor facility of Nissan. They have different set ups for manufacturing parts for the cars to be sold in India and to be sold outside India. It is true for few parts at least if not for all.
Totally true. They even have different quality levels within India. Example the quality of brake pad supplied to Say Hyundai and the local state transport is completely different. The State transport ones have lesser asbestos and are thinner compared to the ones supplied to Hyundai. It is well known how to cover the lapse / lower quality.

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
If there was no differentiation in parts or process used for the car that is exported versus car to be sold in India then the manufacturer would get confused as to which car had to go where. Though the differentiation would not be high but somewhat in certain parts being used that emphasise on safety.
Anurag.
It is far easier ideally if the plant has a single grade of cars. Export / local sales can happen in a First in First Out basis. It is easier for logistics to track the same too. In General, the cars are loaded on to trucks as far as the factory parking lot is concerned. Whether the truck goes to the port/dock for export or it drives to the dealer's yard is a different debate. Lesser granularity means easier tracking.

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Doesn't China have even cheaper labour cost? Or is it that they are already exporting from China as well
China has cheap labor but customer laws are stronger there. Example Skoda had to give an offical statement for DSG failure in China, but it did not do so in India. . Customer laws are weak here and there is not much hope of strengthening them owing to the cartel. From a PR perspective, it is far easier to manipulate laws here and get away compared to China. Example China would need lot of convincing to manufacture and sell dual quality EcoSports there.

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
I have heard that the number of paint coats for Indian Hyundai i20s and export i20s are different.
I don't think changing the quality of the components is going to make the assembly line concept fail. A lot of components are supplied by vendors, and it shouldn't be difficult for the manufacturer to ask the vendor to supply components at different quality levels. Different part numbers for different assembly lines or different part numbers during a particular period of assembly, is going to produce cars of two different quality.
This can be at manufacturer level too, if the company can use same engines at different state of tunes, can't it vary other attributes between its cars?
All the manufacturers are here to make profit, knowing the funny Indian laws and funny Indian authorities, I'm sure they all are having a ball of a time selling skimmed cars in India.
Totally true. Even colors for export countries are better and not to mention layers. Yes Suppliers do manufacture lesser quality depending on the vendee. Cheaper and lower quality ingedients are used for organizations like state transports and similar.

In export countries, they use better quality (cost of qualitY) since the cost of failure is more compared to cost of quality. If a better quality product costs Rs 1000 extra, manufacturers go ahead with that because govt in developed countries would ask to compensate the owner heavily and also charge a hefty fine, not to mention the PR nightmare. It is also to be noted that the lesser quality will be applicable to a huge batch and not one single part. This is where companies decide to go in for cost of quality and pass it on the customer rather than bear the cost of failure.
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Old 24th April 2014, 07:18   #21
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Default Re: Nissan displaces Maruti to become second largest car exporter from India.

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Originally Posted by invidious View Post
From what I understand India is the global hub for small Hyundai cars - so i10s and i20s in Western Europe are Made in India.
Can you please share the source? Hyundai's Turkey plant is the one that manufactures i10s and i20s for Europe. They were exporting from India to Europe in the past (probably the old i10?) but it certainly seems to have changed now.

Here is a 2-year old official press release from Hyundai (I guess the best I could find online) about capacity expansion of Turkey plant, though still relevant since it mentions the very same cars and their destination:

Quote:
Hyundai Motor Company has announced it will increase its annual production capacity at its Turkey Plant, Hyundai Assan Otomotiv Sanayi (HAOS), to 200,000 units from the current 100,000 units.

The increase of annual production, set to be completed by the end of 2013, is to cope with the growing demand from Europe and Turkey for Hyundai’s light segment models. At the end of 2013, HAOS will produce the next generation i10 model in addition to the bigger i20, which has been produced in Turkey since 2010.
Source: http://www.hyundai.com.au/about-hyun...s-turkey-plant

If they were exporting old generation i10 from India but decided to move it to Turkey for the new model, it could see a bigger slump even in the 2014-15 fiscal.

Last edited by zenren : 24th April 2014 at 07:30.
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