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Old 13th February 2014, 14:13   #16
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Default re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

I think there is a big potential market for ATs out there. To my mind, the two key factors impeding the success of ATs (specifically in the sub Rs 15 lakh segment) are:

1. Purchase cost (further exacerbated by Cos often releasing AT variants only in top variants, kudos to Hyundai from departing from that though); and
2. Lower FE, exacerbated by the fact that almost all offerings are limited to petrol engines (again kudos to Hyundai on Verna D/AT - now if only they learnt to count till 5).

I believe AMT can (a) deliver well on the above two counts and (b) also much more easily expand the offering to petrols as well as diesel without significant bespoke technology being developed to expand the range).

Even if AMT lacks a bit of relative sophistication on the user experience compared to the more conventional automatics (I'm not saying it does but I just don't know), I believe its ability to address the above two issues can help it clinch commercial success in India.

If I was a manufacturer I would:

- price it sensibly (not get too greedy);
- offer it across multiple model variants and not limit it to top variant;
- try and combine with petrol as well as diesel offerings.

To my mind that's a sure recipe for success.

Do I see Diesel AT hatches & compact sedans with good FE and at a sensible price?? I sure hope so!!
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Old 13th February 2014, 15:39   #17
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Default re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

I have been reading conflicting reports on the AMT.

Some people say that we need to do manual shifts and the ONLY difference is the absence of clutch.

Some say that manual intervention is optional. In case we choose NOT to intervene, the car will move like a regular automatic.
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Old 13th February 2014, 15:47   #18
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Default re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I have been reading conflicting reports on the AMT.

Some people say that we need to do manual shifts and the ONLY difference is the absence of clutch.

Some say that manual intervention is optional. In case we choose NOT to intervene, the car will move like a regular automatic.
My understanding is that manual intervention is optional. That seems fairly safe and logical to assume given that there's a clear D mode on the lever distinct from the M slot. (see the close up pics of the gearbox)
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Old 13th February 2014, 16:03   #19
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

I feel that AMT will eventually catch-up in India because it is very useful for stop and go traffic types; most of us know the extent of traffic on our roads. Anything that simplifies driving experience is a welcome technology, and AMT is surely a step towards offering more comfort to us.
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Old 13th February 2014, 16:15   #20
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

My two experiences with two different people give me a fair idea about the clientele and market for this car.

First my wife who hasnt yet learnt to drive a car because she feels driving is too troublesome, managing so many inputs (clutch, gear, accelerator, break, etc). She would rather take a taxi/train/walk than face the torture of driving through mumbai traffic. When she heard about the celerio from me, she was excited that a small car with fine looks has an AT. On explaining to her AMT vs AT and that a lot of small cars already had AT, only priced differently, she was surprised that Maruti could give such an offerring with such features and at such a price. Result - She is contemplating getting a license now (Lucky me)

Second a discussion with a colleague and how he would love a second car, which is small, has AT, does not cost much, is fuel efficient for his commute. He drives an existing Laura, is an enthusiast but again like many is tired of maneuvering it in traffic. According to him, the AMT is a delight for a person who loves driving,given the degree of manual intervention without the leg pain and coming in a small car, all the better for the city!
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Old 13th February 2014, 17:51   #21
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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
I have been reading conflicting reports on the AMT.

Some people say that we need to do manual shifts and the ONLY difference is the absence of clutch.

Some say that manual intervention is optional. In case we choose NOT to intervene, the car will move like a regular automatic.
By default it is fully automatic. Manual mode is optional and can be used when needed. Switching between manual and full auto on the fly is also possible.
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Old 13th February 2014, 19:08   #22
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

For those (like me) who were wondering on how does it help the driver? Technology in the gearbox is all fine, but how do I drive! here is the video. Pretty much cleared the doubts.

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Old 13th February 2014, 21:39   #23
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Couple of comments. The idea that an manual and therefor AMT is always more fuel efficient than a regular automatic is not always true. It really depends on the make/model. Not sure here in India, but certainly in the States and Europe.

Modern automatic boxes are extremely efficient and the so-called slip losses are fairly limited and you would be hard pressed to find that in the FE.

What is generally true is that FE gains are more likely to manifest on small cars with relative small engines. The bigger/more powerful the engine, the less impact slip losses has on FE.

Of course, DSG boxes don't have any slip losses either, but are typically a little more complicated.

The same is true of cost. Again, I don't know how it works out in India, but in other markets its not a given that a manual car is cheaper than the auto variant.


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Old 13th February 2014, 22:09   #24
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

In my opinion, AMT will not work, partly because of teh herd mentality which has prevented wide adoptions of ATs (Imagine people saying AT is not good for bumer to bumper traffic {huh} or bad roads like India {KMN}).

If Maruti really wants AMT to work, plonk it in Alto 800, churn out volumes and volumes of car and sell low. In celerio, not many will buy it!
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Old 13th February 2014, 22:16   #25
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This technology sounds like a DSG with a single clutch to me. In fact, in some reviews I have read, VW cars with DSG are referred to as automated manuals. Wonder if it carries the same risk of mechatronic failures. But is presumably much cheaper to produce - am sure the Celerio will sell for less than the replacement cost of a DQ 200
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Old 13th February 2014, 22:33   #26
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Wonder if it carries the same risk of mechatronic failures. But is presumably much cheaper to produce - am sure the Celerio will sell for less than the replacement cost of a DQ 200
I don't think the AMT is that complicated as the DQ200.

I feel it is going to get that initial hype but people will now crib of absence of clutch pedal as they are used to in the conventional MT. Hope no one presses the brake pedal thinking it is clutch!

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Old 13th February 2014, 22:53   #27
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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
This technology sounds like a DSG with a single clutch to me. In fact, in some reviews I have read, VW cars with DSG are referred to as automated manuals. Wonder if it carries the same risk of mechatronic failures. But is presumably much cheaper to produce - am sure the Celerio will sell for less than the replacement cost of a DQ 200

It is actually just a regular manual box with an actuator fixed to it instead of a mechanical clutch pedal mechanism and a bit of electronics. It is less complex then a DSG box.
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Old 14th February 2014, 10:53   #28
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

So I saw one video on youtube and here is what I understood till now: Slot the lever in D mode (i.e. on the right side of the gearbox) and just drive like a normal Automatic. In case you want Manual control, slot the lever to the left (where there are + and - signs) and keep moving the gear stick up and down whenever you want to change gears.

In short, on the outside this is just an Automatic but the way the gearbox works from the inside is different from conventional Automatics. Correct me if I am still wrong
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Old 14th February 2014, 11:16   #29
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Pardon my ignorance, how is the AMT different from the other auto trannies that are there in Indian cars like the Honda City, Ford Fiesta and Polo TSI?

I do know that some of those cars permit manual intervention in the form of paddle shift and tiptronic. But how does AMT differ from those?
Practically, it is the same as any other automatic car. This on the other hand is comprised of your regular manual transmission that uses a hydro-electronic actuator to shift gears for you thus eliminating the need for a power sapping torque converter.

Ergo to use, it is essentially the same but because of the components that make it work, when compared to a regular torque converter unit, it is cheaper to buy, easier to maintain due to its relative simplicity, and just as fuel efficient as a manual, all at the cost of a slightly less smooth shift.
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Old 14th February 2014, 12:07   #30
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
It is actually just a regular manual box with an actuator fixed to it instead of a mechanical clutch pedal mechanism and a bit of electronics. It is less complex then a DSG box.
Correct. But like any other auto transmission car, there is no clutch pedal and you drive the AMT car like any auto transmission car. Maruti is also providing a sequential shift option to manually shift gears. So push or pull the gear lever towards + or - to up shift or down shift.
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