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Old 16th February 2014, 00:26   #61
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

I am glad that Maruti is introducing the AMT mechanism in India. With crowded city roads, frequent gear shifts are a pain for everyone, and also on the car. AMTs are a boon in bumper to bumper traffic.

In major developed markets, ATs account for half to three fourths of all cars sold. Even big public buses are AT. In India, the high cost of AT, and the fact that it was usually found only on the higher versions meant that many people didn't get to discover its usability. Kudos to Maruti for introducing it at starter versions too.

It required a big player like Maruti to make this change. It is similar to how Kinetic Honda first introduced gearless scooters back in the late 80s. At that time, all scooters were geared. And similar to now, initially people would talk that it was meant only for women or old folks or those who don't know how to change gears etc. Later on, it caught on and it got sold in large numbers. Now, it is hard to find a geared scooter in India.

Even now, I still see many people here saying that it is not for driving enthusiasts. Well, those are mainly in minority. On Team-Bhp , we have car enthusiasts here, and many of them naturally prefer the manual versions. For the common folk who drive every day in traffic, AMT/AT will prove to be a big boon! Even on highways, it will be easier to just press the accelerator and have the car go, instead of trying to shift gears when you have sudden obstacles like the ones police put up or pedestrians etc in middle of the highways.

I hope other manufacturers also start offering AMT/ATs at affordable costs starting with their base versions. Also, based on at anecdotal evidence, clutch issues occur pretty regularly around 40-50k miles, mainly due to improper use of clutch. It will depend on how Maruti's AMT versions take off. If they become popular, other manufacturers will follow suit.
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Old 16th February 2014, 01:04   #62
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Default Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Anyone can shed light on fuel efficiency reduction when going from MT to AMT?

Since AMT is actually same transmission under the hood as MT I would not expect a huge drop. But would there be any drop at all or the extra mechanism involved does not burn more fuel at all? I could not find specific details to this question.

Last edited by TMRT : 16th February 2014 at 01:12.
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Old 16th February 2014, 01:39   #63
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Perhaps this is what you're looking for - https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tech_transmission.shtml

It claims that AMT has a potential efficiency improvement of 7%, but I guess that is for us all to debate.
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Old 16th February 2014, 01:41   #64
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I feel the AMT will do wonders in for the people who have travel only in city limits and have a second car for highway/long hauls.

The clutch-less driving for MT lovers and drivers who have changed will have a problem till getting used after that the AMT will be normal. I do want to get aTD of it soon.

Good that Maruti has taken this step and put it forward but the pricing is high slightly and I am surprised why no AMT +ZXi as an option at least.

OT,

I was in a small conversation with an APSRTC bus driver who drives a Tata Marcopolo AT. He used to drive the old Ashok Leyland buses that were in very bad condition mechanically and physically. Now the driver is relaxed and works efficiently due to the AT and moreover the engine is at the rear so NVH is better. There was slight opposition when it was introduced in their fleet but now many drivers vouch for the AT. It is just the getting used to.

Anurag.
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Old 16th February 2014, 11:12   #65
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

When your foot is not on the pedal the will clutch be disengaged?
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Old 16th February 2014, 18:23   #66
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by vaisakhr View Post
When your foot is not on the pedal the will clutch be disengaged?
I'm not sure how it works with AMT, but here's how it works on a DSG box.

As soon as you put your foot on the brake and the car comes to a full stop the clutch will be disengaged. When you start lifting your foot off the brake pedal, the clutch will engage. Your car will start moving forwards. The auto box will all creep when you take your foot off the brake. The DSB box will mimic this.

I assume the AMT does something similar? So you need a bit of clever electronics that will ensure that as soon as the brake is being released, the clutch starts engaging and maybe adjust the engine RPM/fuel a bit as well so it doesn't stall.

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Old 16th February 2014, 19:41   #67
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRT View Post
Anyone can shed light on fuel efficiency reduction when going from MT to AMT?

Since AMT is actually same transmission under the hood as MT I would not expect a huge drop. But would there be any drop at all or the extra mechanism involved does not burn more fuel at all? I could not find specific details to this question.
IMO, fuel efficiency of AMT should be better than a manual transmission of an average joe. You would have seen a lot of people engaging clutch for a lot longer than required while changing gear, even press clutch much before pressing the break pedal. a lot of loss of power and efficiency with these habits.

How this works in Celerio, only time (or Maruti's great marketing) will tell. .
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Old 17th February 2014, 06:19   #68
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Something tells me that we are at the tipping point of an AT revolution in India. Obsessed as we are with FE, if (and this is a real if) the AMT real life figures are anywhere near the manual, I think, coupled with the sheer ease of city driving, will send droves of customers the AMT way. This I am certain, will force other manufacturers to introduce AT variants across models (which gives the customer a fantastic choice). As someone mentioned earlier, it will be like the gearless scooter revolution.
Congrats Maruthi Suzuki! Way to go!
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Old 17th February 2014, 13:04   #69
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Something tells me that we are at the tipping point of an AT revolution in India. Obsessed as we are with FE, if (and this is a real if) the AMT real life figures are anywhere near the manual, I think, coupled with the sheer ease of city driving, will send droves of customers the AMT way. This I am certain, will force other manufacturers to introduce AT variants across models (which gives the customer a fantastic choice). As someone mentioned earlier, it will be like the gearless scooter revolution.
Congrats Maruthi Suzuki! Way to go!
You are very right. The scales just have to tip and then there will be no looking back. Just as today no one touches a non-aircon or non-power steering car. After all who wants to change gears in this chaotic traffic which crawls at snail's pace. We have seen super success of gearless scooters in India. Next wave should be of AT cars.
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Old 17th February 2014, 13:40   #70
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Yes it now seems to be the Buzzword here, and Maruti's marketing team has done a very good job at that too.

The AMT technology did not do well in European market, but the technology is
ideal for the Indian market, but a different story here in India.

Not only is AMT affordable, it delivers fuel efficiency as good as the manual transmission cars and it is easy to maintain as well. In the csae of Maruti, the robust service and perceived affordability in spares has the going good.

I guess if AMT would have been introduced here by any other manufacter it would not have been the buzzword that it has created.
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Old 17th February 2014, 20:16   #71
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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
I guess if AMT would have been introduced here by any other manufacter it would not have been the buzzword that it has created.
Maruti had that power to market things if it needs and the advantage it has in the Indian market is phenomenal so by that the AMT has got a wide spread attention.

Maruti does make reliable and fuel efficient cars so people tend to belive and accept stuff from Maruti.

Anurag
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Old 18th February 2014, 10:20   #72
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Considering the buzz surrounding the Celerio AMT, I guess different manufacturers will be running to Magneti Marelli to make bespoke kits for their car if not already. The question is what capacity does Magneti Marelli have currently? I think MSIL will have claim to the majority of units considering how far back the work for AMT started with MM. But there got to be other suppliers who can give similar automated transmissions like AMT.

And it looks like its not that easy to fix AMT for a power train. This ET article came in Oct 2012. Magneti Marelli hopes to treble India revenues to over Rs 3,000 crore in 4 years
Quote:
For the four-wheeler segment, Magneti Marelli SpA President and chief Executive Officer Eugenio Razelli said that by next year the company expects to introduce the AMT (Automated Manual transmissions) technology in the Indian market but did not share the name of automaker.
Now, we know who that automaker is.

If I am not mistaken, Magneti Marelli' AMT came into being from Formula 1. And apart from Scuderia Ferrari, Magneti Marelli is a partner for Ferrari road cars as well along with others like Aston, Lambo etc. The Aston Martin V12 Vantage has AMT. Celerio is indeed part of an esteemed group.
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Old 18th February 2014, 13:53   #73
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

What is with this Maruti's Italian connection? Last time they put Fiat's engine in Swift and it was run-away success. Now Magneti Marelli's ATM unit is doing that for Maruti in their Celerio.
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Old 18th February 2014, 14:01   #74
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
What is with this Maruti's Italian connection? Last time they put Fiat's engine in Swift and it was run-away success. Now Magneti Marelli's ATM unit is doing that for Maruti in their Celerio.
Suzuki's connections with Fiat mate. Up until they make their own, all Suzuki diesels on sale are from Fiat, AMT from Magnetti Marelli has already been used in a couple of countries in the EU, the SX4 is also known as the Fiat Sedici in a few parts of the world.

Though the VW-Suzuki alliance was larger and should be yielding more, it seems like Fiat and Suzuki are doing better
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Old 18th February 2014, 14:14   #75
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
....Though the VW-Suzuki alliance was larger and should be yielding more, it seems like Fiat and Suzuki are doing better
Hasn't the VW-Suzuki alliance called off? They had ONLY issues through out right?
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