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Old 18th February 2014, 14:16   #76
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Last time they put Fiat's engine in Swift and it was run-away success. Now Magneti Marelli's ATM unit is doing that for Maruti in their Celerio.
Here is the irony, Magneti Marelli is a subsidiary of Fiat Group,( it has 36,900 employees and a turnover of 5.8 billion euro in 2012.) and FIAT lost an opportunity in leading the AMT tech introduction in auto sector in India.


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Last edited by volkman10 : 18th February 2014 at 14:17.
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Old 18th February 2014, 14:42   #77
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Hasn't the VW-Suzuki alliance called off? They had ONLY issues through out right?
I didn't know it was called off. They had several issues, yes. VW had problems with Suzuki insisting on using Fiat diesels, Suzuki made a few childish comebacks like walking out of conferences etc. Suzuki even demanded that they be able to buy back their shares but VW refused to end the alliance (must have bee quite profitable to own a 20% or so stake in Suzuki). Last I heard which was in the summer of last year, they were trying to work things out. Never heard any more updates after that.
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Old 18th February 2014, 15:52   #78
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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The question is what capacity does Magneti Marelli have currently? I think MSIL will have claim to the majority of units considering how far back the work for AMT started with MM. But there got to be other suppliers who can give similar automated transmissions like AMT.
If the Celerio clicks in our market and the demand does arise in future then I say that MM will have a tough time if thy don't ramp up their manufacturing scales to meet the demand.

I hope MM put in a plant here in India so that manufacturing costs are down. I guess are brought from Europe?! Correct me if I am wrong.

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Celerio is indeed part of an esteemed group.
All the cars compared in the 'esteemed' group are brimming and over-flowing with safety features. Our Celerio is on the opposite direction. Come On Maruti!

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What is with this Maruti's Italian connection? Last time they put Fiat's engine in Swift and it was run-away success. Now Magneti Marelli's ATM unit is doing that for Maruti in their Celerio.
I call this bad luck pgsagar.

I guess you mean ATM Units , all in all Maruti does have that size and potential to unleash any new technology and check it can work or no and even it doesn't work I don't think much harm is seen. What I feel is Maruti will use the AMT from them for 5-6 years and after that produce it by themselves paying royalty per unit just like the 1.3 MJD engine.

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Though the VW-Suzuki alliance was larger and should be yielding more, it seems like Fiat and Suzuki are doing better
VW-Suzuki alliance is a history and went sour very fast. Suzuki was not ready to budge and needed greater control in the partnership which VW was not ready to give. I guess they were giving Suzuki the 1.2L TDI in exchange of SX4 as Agila in Europe which will be re-branded and sold as a Fiat. I guess something wet wrong here and the deal was broken. The case was in courts as Suzuki demanded the return of their 20% shares which VW had bought as soon as the papers were signed.

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Hasn't the VW-Suzuki alliance called off? They had ONLY issues through out right?
+1. The deal was never a sweet one.

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
FIAT lost an opportunity in leading the AMT tech introduction in auto sector in India.
Fiat is loosing always and making money by rendering such help rather than being in the front line and introducing new technology on their cars than loaning it.

I do feel that if Fiat would have launched the AMT on the Punto, Linea there would not have been much affect as their market value has gone down and not many will go ahead and buy the stuff as they feel it will not be reliable and upto the mark. The same job when done by Maruti Suzuki people rush towards the showroom to book the car in advance.

Many friends of mine were in shock when I gave them the details of the diesel engine that is doing duty under the Swift + Swift Dzire + Ritz + Indica vista + SX4 + Ertiga + ICML Rhino too IIRC. All have a Fiat heart which is very commendable. The sales what the Maruti stable would have given Fiat is phenomenal and Fiat will jumping in joy to rent the technology to Maruti, same feeling here for the AMT.

Anurag.
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Old 19th February 2014, 10:50   #79
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Maruti Suzuki’s marketing blitz for the Celerio AMT seems to be paying off. Celerio AMT's outsells the manual gearbox version at almost every dealership in the country


http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...-manual/17913/
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Old 19th February 2014, 15:55   #80
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Encashing on AMT, Celerio is bound to create a stir - Maruti Suzuki Celerio Demand Soars In India; Registers 1,000 Booking Per Day !

Will this re-kindle the AT (AMT) generation of cars in India?


http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/53...e-delivery.htm

Last edited by volkman10 : 19th February 2014 at 16:24.
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Old 19th February 2014, 16:21   #81
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

With increasing traffic and maddening chaos, the market for AT vehicles were always there. In india the FE concern and the additional premium of often 75 to 100 k over a MT price kept buyers away. Now if manufacturers can bring out AMT which gives similar mileage but only for additional 40-50k, there would be takers for sure. AMT concept also is not new, with Magneti Marelli making it a mass produced and easily adaptable component, the flood gate has opened.

Yes there are short falls, but that is something 20% of the car buying public might complain off. Rest 80% is still a HUGE opportunity! Yes this would be the next big thing in Indian automotive revolution

MUL, TATA & M&M are the early adopters, but just wait and see, almost all of them will come out with similar offerings and across many product lines.
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Old 19th February 2014, 16:50   #82
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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MUL, TATA & M&M are the early adopters, but just wait and see, almost all of them will come out with similar offerings and across many product lines.
Early adopters I agree but the mass market will be captured by MUL if they decrease the prices a bit.

Is Tata and M&M using the Magneti Marelli AMT unit or their in-house thing?

Anurag.
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Old 19th February 2014, 17:01   #83
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Maruti Suzuki’s marketing blitz for the Celerio AMT seems to be paying off. Celerio AMT's outsells the manual gearbox version at almost every dealership in the country


http://www.zigwheels.com/news-featur...-manual/17913/
Manual transmissions vanished from high end cars quite a while back. And then companies below the big three started taking away MTs. Skoda doesn't offer an MT in Octavia 1.8TSI or Superb TDI. VW has no MT option for the Polo or Vento equipped with the TSI engine. And now Maruti Suzuki is offering a cheap and fuel efficient AT in their latest offering. Initial bookings clearly tell us which transmission is preferred more.

I won't be surprised if within a few years there won't be any MT cars on offer in India. Way before MT vanish from other markets. Not too excited about that day.
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Old 19th February 2014, 17:07   #84
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
...... FIAT lost an opportunity in leading the AMT tech introduction in auto sector in India.

Cheers!
Nothing new. Fiat's success in India piggy-rides on the back of Maruti. BTW, sorry for typo. I meant AMT but typed ATM. Looks like I'm too much obsessed with money these days. Well, what to do; with so many newer cars hitting roads, it's never enough.
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Old 19th February 2014, 17:18   #85
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

Sad that the 'buzz' today is not about an old technology AMT than the splendid CVT in Nissan Micra or the superb DSG on the VW.

Even the AT on Hyundai & Brio is better than the AMT.
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Old 19th February 2014, 20:16   #86
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Is Tata and M&M using the Magneti Marelli AMT unit or their in-house thing?
Understand TATA's have gone the Magneti Marelli way!

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Old 19th February 2014, 22:03   #87
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Sad that the 'buzz' today is not about an old technology AMT than the splendid CVT in Nissan Micra or the superb DSG on the VW.

Even the AT on Hyundai & Brio is better than the AMT.
Older or not, the tech is being brought here only now. Also, the whole point is not whether it offers smoother or quicker gearshifts. It is that it is as fuel efficient as a CVT or DSG would be in relation to a manual, without costing even as much as a torque converter to make or even to service all since it is based on a far simpler approach than the rest. In the mass market, that is what matters most.

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Old 19th February 2014, 22:32   #88
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Older or not, the tech is being brought here only now. Also, the whole point is not whether it offers smoother or quicker gearshifts. It is that it is as fuel efficient as a CVT or DSG would be in relation to a manual, without costing even as much as a torque converter to make or even to service all since it is based on a far simpler approach than the rest. In the mass market, that is what matters most.
Spot on. I drove Celerio AMT and it is not as bad as some suspect. Even shifts are not jerky. May be slightly more jerky than my A-Star AT but not perceptible unless I look out for it or unless I stamp on the go pedal. It serves its purpose of point A to point B automatic car superbly. Those looking for an out and out performance in a 5 lakh automatic hatch will have to look elsewhere. In any case, fun automatic cars start 20 L and upwards. DSG is fun but we also know its track record. So, I think we should not be harsh to Celerio and I personally appreciate Maruti making automatic a household name in AMT avatar.

Disclaimer: I am no fan of Celerio personally and I said in my earlier post that I wouldn't buy one because I find the overall shape and proportions very bland. But then most of average buyers look past looks. That is why Alto is such a super-hit.
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Old 19th February 2014, 23:06   #89
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Older or not, the tech is being brought here only now. Also, the whole point is not whether it offers smoother or quicker gearshifts. It is that it is as fuel efficient as a CVT or DSG would be in relation to a manual, without costing even as much as a torque converter to make or even to service all since it is based on a far simpler approach than the rest. In the mass market, that is what matters most.

I don't understand this cost of servicing? An Auto box don't need any service really. Its the manual boxes and these AMTs that are going to need servicing. At some point in time its going to require a new clutch, so you need to pop the engine out on most cars.
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Old 19th February 2014, 23:22   #90
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Default Re: Automated Manual Transmission (AMT): The new buzz in India

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I don't understand this cost of servicing? An Auto box don't need any service really. Its the manual boxes and these AMTs that are going to need servicing. At some point in time its going to require a new clutch, so you need to pop the engine out on most cars.
Even on MT cars of this class, clutch plates generally last close to 1 lakh km, unless abused. In AMT, it should last even more as it is the actuator which engages/disengages clutch and not some rash or learning driver who are known to be harsh on clutch. Yet, I agree with you that traditional torque converters are the best ( CVT has this reported rubber-band effect and we all know about DSGs relaibility ).
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