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Old 24th March 2017, 19:11   #46
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Default Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

I don't think there's any point in converting Thai pricing to guess what it would cost here. We'll have to just see how they look to price it here independently.


Personally if the current top of line petrol AWD is ~ 32
33 lakh on road, for the larger all new 7 seat config CRV, I would not balk at it touching 39-40 on road.

As Honda might see it, it has a sophisticated Diesel engine, plusher interiors and 7 seats so no reason why it can't go head on with Endy and Fortuner on price. It's the softer alternative which many people may prefer instead of the hard core off roader like the other two.

In my view if it is priced up to 39/40 on road for top of line, it's still palatable. What'll be appalling is if they attempt an Accord like pricing and take it to 45 lakh on road. That'll be plain foolish.

Last edited by Axe77 : 24th March 2017 at 19:13.
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Old 24th March 2017, 19:31   #47
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

Going by the past Honda releases, one should be very happy if CR-V is priced lesser than Q3.
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Old 24th March 2017, 23:16   #48
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
In my view if it is priced up to 39/40 on road for top of line, it's still palatable. What'll be appalling is if they attempt an Accord like pricing and take it to 45 lakh on road. That'll be plain foolish.

If its comes at 39/40 its suicide, dont see what is palatable with your logic. Why would i want another CRV and not get an x1 with a BMW service pack. 40 lacs for a CRV and its dead on arrival. it will sell some initially but later on people will drop out. Given that honda is cheaper to maintain but some people do consider the badge if not all and with these service packs these germans are becoming slightly more easier to own.

I have a CRV the current one, i have the top of the line 2.4 AWD and its not worth 32. i paid 28 for it but if at that time the guy told me 32 i wouldve walked out.

If honda wants to pack up and leave india in 4 years then yes they can go and price it at 40 lacs.

Infact my Honda CRV sales executive has been telling me that he has sold 3 Accord Hybrids thats it its dead, BRV is moving very slowly, he told me WRV is a slow product as well and the only thing selling is the Honda City. If they keep doing these blunders honda will have to pack up -- these are his words. Even the dealers are getting irritated with honda now.
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Old 25th March 2017, 07:32   #49
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Default Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

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Originally Posted by M00M View Post
If its comes at 39/40 its suicide, dont see what is palatable with your logic. Why would i want another CRV and not get an x1 with a BMW service pack. 40 lacs for a CRV and its dead on arrival.

1. Just to clarify, my references to price were for an AWD top of line diesel on road pricing Mumbai. All references to price in this post are also with reference to the same model.
2. As a customer I would be more than happy if you are right on pricing and I'm wrong - but I really dont see it coming for less than 36-37 minimum and perhaps closer 39.
3. Look at the mid life face lift on the Altis - while the changes to nose etc are major it's NOT by any stretch an all new model. Yet they've hiked prices for the same car by1 - 1.5 lakh for the top variants.
4. With the CRV, its all new, substantially bigger, becomes a 7 seater and adds diesel. Like for like, if current petrol top end is 32 on road, new petrol top end would be AT LEAST 35-36 on road with all these changes? Add another 1.5 lakh for the diesel top end and you're staring at 37.5 lakh.

WHY IT MIGHT FLY!

A top of line diesel Tucson sells at 33 odd lakh on road I think.
Santa Fe (although it likely doesn't sell much) retails at closer 37-38 lakh on road. Just on these two counts alone why would Honda not price its CRV in the same range as Santa Fe. It is certainly a better product.

X1: CRV, particularly with 7 seats is not a direct comparison to X1. Both call themselves SUVs but the comparison stops there and the fact that with discounts, maybe they overlap in price a bit too. If what you said is true, and price and badge were the significantly overarching parameters, the Endys and Fortuners would not sell at all against the X1. Similarly the Camry would not sell in light of the 3 series and A4.

X1 will only get you the BMW badge and a kick ass driving experience. CRV gets you luxurious comfort, more leg room, under thigh support, better dash etc, and 7 seats to boot. It's also doesn't feel as bulky to drive as an Endy / Fortuner - a factor important to many.

Finally, there's a very good reason the Accord is a dud. There is a direct competitor in every respect including badge value in the form of the Camry - available for a good 6 lakh less. Show me a direct competitor to a 7 seater diesel CRV that's available for 32 lakh!!

Last edited by Axe77 : 25th March 2017 at 07:34.
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Old 25th March 2017, 07:57   #50
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

Honda has mainly concentrated on the small to mid-size car segment in India. This put them against the Maruti & Hyundai products which are already very strong on sales chart.

Honda has a great badge value, they should have strategized better and also brought in higher segments such as Creta [with more affordable CR-V diesel, Vizel etc.), Innova Crysta, Fortuner etc. Instead they have mainly concentrated only on Brio & Jaaz platform (brining in BR-V, Mobilio, WR-V etc.). The Honda Odyssey (MUV) is a very successful model in the US, why not get a variant of it here? In contrast, Toyota has a similar successful Toyota Sienna (MUV) model in the US, they got a very similar product Innova Crysta in India and look at the way it is selling. Honda does not have anything to compete against this in India. The Indian customers are willing to pay high $ for good quality products and Honda should realize it. Toyota strategy seem to have worked, they are making all their profits only on Innova Crysta & Fortuners, both relatively high end products.

If the 7-seater CR-V diesel (Knocked Down Condition - KDC) is going to be around INR 40L, Honda could lose a segment of potential buyers to the bigger brands such as Mercedes, BMW & Audi. And those who really need a 7 seater will turn back to a XUV or Innova Crysta or perhaps even a Fortuner or Ford Endavour which is feature rich. Honda should really think about manufacturing the CR-V in India (like Innova Cysta) to have a great product at a lower price range.
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Old 25th March 2017, 08:26   #51
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

I guess Honda is waiting for Price Announcement of Volkswagen Tiguan slated for launch in April/May 2017.

I think Honda will target that car just like they have in the global markets. We are getting Tiguan (5 Seater) instead of Tiguan All Space (7 Seater). This lack of 3rd Row will give Honda the advantage, and just like Axe77 has mentioned above, there is no 7 Seater SUV at 30 lakh price point. This could very well be the price Honda would be looking for.

Honda had said that the Next Gen CR-V will have more Localization, so expect prices to be Decent if not VFM.

Accord was CBU and hence it was priced out of competition, but Honda wouldn't want to give the same reason when they launch CR-V at Higher price then competition just to milk money from us like they have been doing on other products except City.
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Old 25th March 2017, 10:24   #52
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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post

WHY IT MIGHT FLY
Let me counter your views with my views point by point.

I used to own the Old 2009-2010 Corolla Altis VL AT. I enjoyed the car but lost it due to a terrible accident, did the car save my life - YES, did i enjoy the car - YES, my first thought when i wanted to buy a new car, i called Toyota, what was i told ? sir, the car now costs 19.5 lacs. I paid 14.5 for it and in 3 years it has increased to 19.5 ?? What have you added to it ?? Nothing !!. Sorry lost a customer.

I agree to your views that Toyota increased prices for the facelift, but they have added 7 airbags, LED lights, new music HU and some quality interior changes. Do these deserve a 1.5 lac price increase ?? i would agree on some level but then i would say that it as it is, Toyota, you have priced the car higher from first why increase it more, but then Toyota wants to just earn as much profit as it can in india, they are not the VFM brand in india.

The only reason Toyota gets away with these ridiculous prices is because there is no direct competitor to it in the segments it operates. Who is the competitor to the Corolla Altis --- Skoda Octavia and ?? Jetta is gone because of VW thinking oh we can charge higher than everyone because we are GERMAN -- that attitude and Indians are like, go back to Germany. Skoda suffers from brand image problem and genuine service high handedness problems, are they rectifying that ? i dont know and cant say because i havent ever owned a skoda. i want to, and i have been keen on buying the new Superb but the horror stories literally scare me. If Honda prices the Civic in direct competition or even slightly less than the Corolla Altis be ready to see massive discounts on the Corolla Altis. Hopefully Honda doesnt over price it like what theyve been doing with all their products.

If you have a genuine competitor it increases competition and companies rationally price products because they want to sell more. Who is the competitor to Innova Crysta -- no one !!. For the Fortuner there is the Endeavour but Ford is constantly increasing, decreasing prices. That does not send a good message to your customers. Why has Toyota failed in the segments where Maruti and Honda and Tata operate ? Because the Etios even though has a good ride, the interior and the car is in no way comparable to the Swift Dzire, the Honda Amaze and the new Tigor ( i dont like Tata but the Tigor looks good in all aspects ).

Moving on, having owned Hyundai's in the past i dislike Hyundai but if i had the Tucson at 32 (which is over priced) i would get the Tucson then rather pay 40 for a CRV.

Your logic of comparing X1 to Endeavour and Fortuner is misplaced. You see, the X1 is for a city person who wants to drive sometimes (in india) go to events (in india) and wants to enjoy the city life, the Endeavour and the Fortuner though used in Cities, have very good off roading capabilities, in India they sell because of the imposing image it offers. Its all about the Image and their lower running cost and the fact that you can travel long distances in comfort. X1 in comparison doesnt have that imposing image. BMW service packs are a good way to go but still the germans are more expensive to maintain.

I really agree to disagree that the CRV is more luxurious than the X1. My CRV interior except the seats which are nice, the interior is very plasticky. Everything has a hard plastic knock to it. I love my CRV dont misunderstand but the interior is no way luxurious. It doesnt have a good dashboard either and not everyone wants 7 seats. Yes i agree with you on one aspect that not everyone wants a bulky, pseudo SUV.

You cannot compare the camry and the c /3 / a4. Camry offers more space. it sells because of space and main customers are chauffeur driven owners. i dont want to toss around in the back seat with my legs searching for space in the c / 3/ a4, i rather enjoy a pillowy ride in the camry. the accord is a dud because of its price otherwise its a much better product than the camry. price makes or breaks even the best product in our country, just because someone has money doesnt mean hes going to overlook that this product should cost 30 lacs and youre asking 53 for it so i will pay. Honda will have to learn this afresh to be respected in India.

I am in the market for a 7 seater CRV due to person reasons, if i didnt have this specific one reason i would not buy a 7 seater car period. i would not look at 7 seats if i didnt have a genuine problem. Most of the times the 2 rear seats in my car are going to be folded away, the 2 extra seats will be used only once in a month therefore i am keenly awaiting for it but would i pay 40 for it --- NOOO !! I rather pay and get the Innova Crysta even though it is overpriced.

I saw the Hyundai Santa Fe and i really liked it but i am not happy with Hyundai variants and features. I20 has a sunroof but Santa Fe doesnt, Elantra has ventilating seats but Santa Fe doesnt. I mean it costs more why doesnt it have it !! Hyundai is getting away with all this mismatch due to lack of competition as well.

I do hope someone is reading this thread at Honda and thinking ok we cant go mental and price the new CRV at 40 lacs because if it does, you will loose me as a customer for sure. Would you like to loose a genuine Honda repeat customer ? i dont think so. At 32 lacs i find your CRV over priced so please be rational while pricing the new one otherwise i will start looking at the over priced Innova Crysta.

Just to add hear: i think the Tiguan at 35 lacs will be dead on arrival as well. VW doesnt seem to understand our price sensitive market. You can have the best product but India is very very price sensitive. Ciaz has less power, lesser engine size, lesser luxurious feel but sells more than the city because of price mainly. For VW sake i really hope they get some sense and start understanding India.

Last edited by M00M : 25th March 2017 at 10:27.
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Old 25th March 2017, 19:09   #53
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Guys, bit off topic : but what is there in Bangkok Auto industry, that we get models based out of Bangkok? And our cars are more expensive and less equipped that their thai counterparts ?
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Old 25th March 2017, 19:22   #54
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Guys, bit off topic : but what is there in Bangkok Auto industry, that we get models based out of Bangkok? And our cars are more expensive and less equipped that their thai counterparts ?
India has a FTA with Thailand. Which helps as these auto majors like Honda Toyota have major plants there so they make lots of parts and CKD kits there and import into India so if say Honda city is face lifted in Thailand and the light dye changes then the same will change in India as part comes from there. FTA ensures low duties also.

Thailand has less duties on cars so cars are cheaper, their baht is stronger than rupee (believe it) so that also makes a difference.
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Old 25th March 2017, 21:02   #55
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Default Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

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but would i pay 40 for it --- NOOO !! I rather pay and get the Innova Crysta even though it is overpriced.

I have just one question. Considering where all already launched products are priced (regardless of whether we agree or disagree with their pricing), where do you think Honda should price a top of line CRV diesel in your opinion. (In on road pricing terms)
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Old 25th March 2017, 22:24   #56
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India has a FTA with Thailand. Which helps as these auto majors like Honda Toyota have major plants there so they make lots of parts and CKD....
The same logic of FTA can be reversed and used to manufacture in India and export it to Thailand. I am sure the India is a far bigger market than Thailand..
Just wondering..

Last edited by siddutta : 25th March 2017 at 22:51.
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Old 26th March 2017, 21:48   #57
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

@Axe77: I think 34 to 35 should be the cut off for the Diesel Top End. Anything more and it would seem to be too much.

@siddutta: Yes the same logic can be reversed but Thailand is like the mother plant, the plants are massive in comparison and they serve whole of South Asia. So its not only Thailand. India is not cheap anymore, its a big domestic market and exports can be viable as well but the local manufacturing also needs to be competitive to provide the Vendor side of the business.
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Old 27th March 2017, 01:38   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M00M View Post
@Axe77: I think 34 to 35 should be the cut off for the Diesel Top End. Anything more and it would seem to be too much.

Given that it's a very small diesel engine compared to the petrol, I don't expect a big premium over the 2.4 L petrol.

However, in aneffort to keep prices attractive I would hate if Honda cuts quality. I own the current CRV and have owned the last gen. In comparison the interior quality of current gen was a notch and a half below the list gen. It felt Renault Duster upgrade and not a Hyundai Creta upgrade. Guess that was the case with most Hondas that were launched between 2010 and 2015. Let's hope things improve for the better.

Honda needn't worry too much because the VW tiguan and Skoda Kodiaq will point pricing ballpark. However Honda must remember their diesel is 1.6 L going against 2.0. And the VW might have independent rear suspension which the Honda may not. Lack of CarPlay or Android Auto could sway some buyers away as well. Keeping all this best for Honda to stay at least 4 - 5 lakh below the Kodiaq which is also about a quarter size bigger (same as Santa Fe).

So, I think Honda will bow out at 35L (on road most expensive cities) for Top end both petrol and Diesel.
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Old 27th March 2017, 15:34   #59
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Default Re: Honda CR-V Diesel coming? EDIT: Now imported for R&D

This is the India-bound 2017 Honda CR-V 7-seater version, powered by a 1.6L turbo-charged diesel engine.

Quote:
The Honda CR-V launches in both petrol and diesel variants spread in two grades: E and EL, and prices range between THB 1,399,000 to THB 1,699,000 (INR 26.4 Lakhs INR 32.1 Lakhs).
The petrol variant is powered by the familiar 2.4L i-VTEC N/A petrol engine paired with a CVT, which produces 175 hp and 225 Nm of torque. The diesel variant packs the 1.6L i-DTEC turbodiesel engine mated to a 9-speed automatic, delivering 160 hp and 350 Nm of torque.
The Thai-spec 2017 Honda CR-V comes with the option of third-row seating for the first time, which is not available in the model sold globally. Also unique to the Thai-made Honda CR-V is the Honda NSX-inspired buttons for the automatic transmission.
It has an all black interior contrasted by silver and wood garnish, a TFT unit similar to the Honda Civic, and the centre console houses a 7-inch touchscreen display with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Both driver and front passenger have power adjustable seats.
The new CR-V is 5 mm longer, 35 mm wider, 39 mm higher and has a 40 mm longer wheelbase, measuring 4,587 mm in length, 1,855 mm in width, 1,689 mm in height and has a wheelbase of 2,660 mm. Depending on the variant (2WD or AWD), the ground clearance ranges between 198-208 mm.
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Old 27th March 2017, 17:24   #60
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Not sure if I missed this somewhere but does anyone have reliable information on launch date in India? Thanks
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