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Old 5th March 2014, 00:06   #16
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
...........India is still not very auto freak country. People are happy with manuals. ......
I am also people and I am not at all happy with manuals ( on my state's lawless roads ). I will kill for a diesel AT hatch. Further, I don't understand this fun factor with manuals, especially diesels. You literally have to stand on clutch pedal to press, in a diesel car. Is that fun? Diesel cars have very hard clutch. H-A-R-D, hard. I don't know what kinda fun we are talking about here. A hundred gear-changes on a crowded street is fun?
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Old 5th March 2014, 05:18   #17
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

VW should have launched this long time ago, knowing fully well that

1. there are no new launches from VW anytime soon
2. competition will have launches and refreshes in this segment with high frequency
3. its biggest trump card is the DSG fitted to a diesel because competition cannot match for a long time.

It was probably held back because of costs and with the 1.5 liter that can come down to make it competitive.

All in all a great decision and also will bring down time and cost of DSG spares with volumes!

Cheers,
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Old 5th March 2014, 05:48   #18
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It will be mated to the 104 BHP 1.5L TDI (scaled down version of the current 1.6L for excise benefits). •
Vento will not enjoy excise benefits since the length is anyways more than 4m.

The main benefit will be for Polo. Will the 1.2 and 1.6 diesel options be consolidated into just a 1.5L diesel that offers best of both worlds? In that case it makes sense to offer the same in Vento for cost reduction. Really glad to see good automatics options coming to the Indian market.
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Old 5th March 2014, 06:08   #19
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

I hope the lil' bird is right. And like everyone else, I hope it is priced well (although I am not too sanguine about that one). Let's hope this will get the others to follow - hatches, C sedans and small SUVs like Duster and Ecosport.
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Old 5th March 2014, 09:52   #20
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

its good to know that VW realized the need of diesel automatic within the range of 10-15 Lacs and that is the market where the buyers need automatic for daily commute than having drivers drive them.
Like all said above, this car will fire up the market and their sales. Wish they could have done 1 year earlier i would have bought it than upgrading to cruze.
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Old 5th March 2014, 10:33   #21
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Further, I don't understand this fun factor with manuals, especially diesels. You literally have to stand on clutch pedal to press, in a diesel car. Is that fun? Diesel cars have very hard clutch. H-A-R-D, hard. I don't know what kinda fun we are talking about here. A hundred gear-changes on a crowded street is fun?
Totally agree that a lot of people would happily trade in there manual cars in favor of an AT diesel car. VW needs to get the price right for finding any takers and the question about DSG reliability still stands unresolved. But I also disagree that diesel cars have a hard clutch. It depends upon which car you have driven and cannot be used as a blanket statement. VW diesel cars and Cruze have a very hard clutch but on the other hand Sunny, Altis and the new Honda city have a very light one which is at par with there petrol counterparts.
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Old 5th March 2014, 10:59   #22
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

The Honda City Diesel (manual) VX top-end fully loaded is about 13.7 lakhs on road Mumbai. The Vento with a 1.5TDI and DSG shouldn't be priced at anything over Rs. 13.5L on road Mumbai because:

- The City has much more space than the Vento.
- It is a brand new 2014 product whereas the Vento has been in the market for a good 4 years now.
- The kit level on the Vento will have to go up as well.

Additionally, used Jettas sell for around 13-15L depending on mileage and condition.

Off late, I have been leaning towards an AT purchase looking at the deteriorating condition of traffic in Pune. Not just Pune, an AT is a boon for jam packed cities like Bombay and Bangalore where most of your weekly running is between your home and office in an IT park.
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Old 5th March 2014, 11:31   #23
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Vento will not enjoy excise benefits since the length is anyways more than 4m.
I think the Vento also benefits. There are three excise slabs currently for private passenger vehicles:

i) Cars that are <=4m plus <=1200cc for petrol or <=1500cc for diesel - 8%

ii) Cars that are <= 1500cc {except those that fall under category (i)} - 20%

iii) All others - 24%

Note: Fully electric vehicles fall under a different slab, as do commercial people movers etc.

So the advantage of having a sub-1500cc engine also has 4% excise benefits for the Vento, 20% against 24% for the current 1600cc engine.

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
The main benefit will be for Polo.
Agreed! The Polo will be the biggest beneficiary, as a 1.5 lit. Polo GT TDI will come under the 8% slab, as opposed to the current 24% slab for the 1.6 lit. GT TDI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Will the 1.2 and 1.6 diesel options be consolidated into just a 1.5L diesel that offers best of both worlds?
Rumour has it that there will be two states of tune on the 1.5 lit. diesel engine. The lower state of tune (~ 90PS) for the regular Polo variants and the higher state of tune (~ 105PS) for the Polo GT TDI and the Vento variants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Really glad to see good automatics options coming to the Indian market.
Absolutely! The Verna is the lone diesel automatic in this segment (and below) and even it costs more than 1 million rupees, ex-showroom. Finally it will get some much needed competition.

Diesel AMTs will join the party in the future too!
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Old 5th March 2014, 11:33   #24
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
I totally disagree with this. India is starved for diesel automatics. Verna the only option is not a stable vehicle, and the lac of diesel Automatics in the under 10 lakh range forces people to buy manuals or go in for petrol guzzling torque converter automatics. Till date the smallest successful diesel automatic in the world is the Renault Megane which has the same 110 HP DCI engine seen in India, get the transmission here in the Sunny diesel and the Duster and the booking again will be deep into waiting list.

I recently sold my Innova and currently have a Polo 1.2 Tdi and a Wagon R I'm just planning to get an small automatic, let diesel automatics come in and I will replace these cars one by one.

Rahul
As i already said, it may find takers but not many. With the kind of pricing VW will offer for this car, i seriously doubt how many will buy it. Yes, if somebody launches small automatic diesel car (Grand i10?) with attractive pricing then it can change the game but certainly not this car. It is already struggling to sell in numbers and with competition getting strong with Honda City diesel, i guess it will be another dead duck for VW. Lets wait and watch please

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
I am also people and I am not at all happy with manuals ( on my state's lawless roads ). I will kill for a diesel AT hatch. Further, I don't understand this fun factor with manuals, especially diesels. You literally have to stand on clutch pedal to press, in a diesel car. Is that fun? Diesel cars have very hard clutch. H-A-R-D, hard. I don't know what kinda fun we are talking about here. A hundred gear-changes on a crowded street is fun?
I am not sure in which car you find such a hard clutch. Modern diesels i drove recently has much better clutch than previous generation cars. It is not as light as petrol for sure but not bad either as you mentioned.

Also please note that, i am not saying diesel Auto is bad. Its always a welcome. I am just talking here mainly in contest with the VW Vento. I doubt weather it will be able to help any more numbers for VW, that's it
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Old 5th March 2014, 11:50   #25
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
... But I also disagree that diesel cars have a hard clutch. It depends upon which car you have driven and cannot be used as a blanket statement. VW diesel cars and Cruze have a very hard clutch but on the other hand Sunny, Altis and the new Honda city have a very light one which is at par with there petrol counterparts.
There! You said it yourself. VW/Cruze/Skoda are the performance diesels. Sunny, Altis, New Honda City aren't. Frugal, they may be but sprinter, they are not. I would prefer the former over latter.

Verna is the only option available right now. But 4-speed AT? Which century is Hyundai stuck in? All those features and stunning fluidic lines and yet skimp on gear-box? Beats me. In fact, I find Scorpio's 6-speed AT leagues ahead of Verna's. I drove 'em both. And in case of Scorpio, I drove the late 2008 one, with Australian AT, and boy, o' boy, it was flying, for an SUV. If that one is so good then I'm sure new Bosch unit should be just wonderfull.

BTW, Aniketi, diesel clutches harden up with passage of time much more than in petrol cars.
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Old 5th March 2014, 12:32   #26
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
I am also people and I am not at all happy with manuals ( on my state's lawless roads ). I will kill for a diesel AT hatch. Further, I don't understand this fun factor with manuals, especially diesels. You literally have to stand on clutch pedal to press, in a diesel car. Is that fun? Diesel cars have very hard clutch. H-A-R-D, hard. I don't know what kinda fun we are talking about here. A hundred gear-changes on a crowded street is fun?
100% the truth

A Diesel manual car for everyday drive in the city is like a curse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
I am not sure in which car you find such a hard clutch. Modern diesels i drove recently has much better clutch than previous generation cars. It is not as light as petrol for sure but not bad either as you mentioned.

Also please note that, i am not saying diesel Auto is bad. Its always a welcome. I am just talking here mainly in contest with the VW Vento. I doubt weather it will be able to help any more numbers for VW, that's it
They are soft only till the clutch is 25 to 30 thousand km old, after that it starts getting harder harder and more harder and I am talking about this from personal experience from owning a modern diesel which is neither a performance oriented Cruze or Octavia, its a Swift Diesel. My clutch is 32 thousand km old since the last change and yes in traffic my leg does ache.
Oh yes, the clutch is bled from time to time, the clutch fluid changed from time to time, but with diesels, because of the heavier pressure plate springs to take care of the humongous torque, you just can't get away from the heavy clutch for long unless u don't mind changing the clutch every 30 to 40 thousand k.
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Old 5th March 2014, 13:53   #27
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
There! You said it yourself. VW/Cruze/Skoda are the performance diesels. Sunny, Altis, New Honda City aren't. Frugal, they may be but sprinter, they are not. I would prefer the former over latter.
But once you opt for the AT variant, you anyways compromise on the sprinting part. Classic example I can give is of my BMW which will be one of the best sprinters this side of 50L. Now the AT box with it is the state of the art 8 speed ZF gearbox. And even then only in sports mode you see the fun to drive part which is anyways superseded by the manual mode. So I doubt the Vento with a 1.5 Ltr engine and an AT box will be as good as the manual 1.6 TDI that we have now.
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Old 5th March 2014, 18:00   #28
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
13kmpl for the diesel is not accurate. The diesel will easily give above that overall. 14kmpl is city FE and highway goes closer to 20kmpl. In which case average of 15-16kmpl in your above calculation means it's more than 1.6 lakhs.
+1 to this, but I'll give a realistic scenario (mine).

City FE is 15-16, while highway goes to 17+ figures depending on how I drive (generally spirited). Ditto on the number of kms, the above averages are consistent throughout.

So a diesel auto is clearly a winner. But considering prices stay in the same bracket (for highline), I feel the Honda auto might still get the numbers in the market.

But put an auto box in the comfortline - aha, that might bring in the numbers!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Yup- do the math yourself: even if I paid a lac additional for the TDI engine, it would have paid for itself and some by now!

Don't believe me? Here goes:
Attachment 1215279

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Tell me when and my cheque book is ready. Having recently done 700 Kms in my Vento TDi in one day, the need for hour is an AT. With a 6 Speed DSG it would give a lot of scope of tuning as it supports upwards of 320 NM torque.
OT point - but considering the kms you have achieved in your current tdi in 3 years, any fuel burner would be a loss making entity for you

Last edited by ninjatalli : 5th March 2014 at 18:06.
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Old 5th March 2014, 23:47   #29
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

I only hope that VW doesn't bring 90 PS 230 NM 1.6/1.5 TDi with 7 Speed DSG which currently retails in international market. A proper 6 speed DSG with current state of tune of 1.6 TDi would be much better.

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
OT point - but considering the kms you have achieved in your current tdi in 3 years, any fuel burner would be a loss making entity for you
The current one ain't, as when you get a VW Vento TDi HL for the same price of Honda City VMT 5 Gen. Looking to change over to an AT and if this birdie info is correct then it would be a good lateral upgrade.
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Old 6th March 2014, 12:44   #30
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Default re: VW Vento Diesel Automatic... Update: Launched!

I just hope this is not a rumour and there is an actual vento diesel auto being readied for launch.I have seen such kind of news during grand i10 launch also regarding an auto diesel but that also didn`t happened.I fail to understand when auto companies say that market is not growing yet they still fail to give what the market desires, an auto diesel is long awaited by somany people including me.Fingers crossed for this one.
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