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Old 23rd June 2015, 13:50   #1621
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore



So, still no touts?

No. All I see is an evil migrant tax dodger and morally upright citizens taking him to task in the republic. After all this migrant is part of foreign invasion on a model state where govt earns revenue by legitimate and fair means and spends it purely on welfare. Forget scam, the lawmakers never even watched porn while making laws. These tax dodgers are evil designs by Indian government instead of being easy and juicy target of a corrupt and evil regime. Besides, as other regimes are somewhat evil, so its okay to be more evil and hound people who have out of state registered vehicles. Naturally, a majority of these is eventually migrants and they are no one's vote bank. If these poor chaps want rights, they should fight it out in courts and make unions. Should become Goondas and hackle everyone. Then only they should be heard. Only Goondas can stay in Goondaraj. That's the actual law of the land. The motor act amendment is a sham.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 13:57   #1622
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Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
Only Goondas can stay in Goondaraj. That's the actual law of the land. The motor act amendment is a sham.
I understand your pent up feelings, but any person's immediate response would be - "Did Karnataka government put a gun on these people's head and asked them to come and work in Bengaluru or Karnataka??". The tax amendment was brought in after following the rules and approvals. Perhaps that could be the reason that the court even vacated the stay order.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 14:06   #1623
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Police seem to be doing this all the time.

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/banga...w/46625874.cms - deflating tyres of tempo travelers / buses etc parked in a colony and inconveniencing area residents.

However even morcha types seem to be deflating tyres so who knows? http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle1183891.ece

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
@hserus: I had parked my car in front of our new hospital, albeit in front of a no parking sign. But the civic authorities had already approved the removal of said sign but the local police station had not done it yet. This is about 250 mts from Gorguntapalya signal. RNS motors and Taj Vivanta which are much closer to the signal do not have any 'no parking' sign in front of them. A roving traffic SI deflated one of my tires and threw away the pin. And all 4 tiers of a fellow doctor and of a cargo van.
On complaining to the higher authorities, the SI was suspended. But yes they do resort to these tactics in Bangalore city too.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 14:53   #1624
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
I understand your pent up feelings, but any person's immediate response would be - "Did Karnataka government put a gun on these people's head and asked them to come and work in Bengaluru or Karnataka??". The tax amendment was brought in after following the rules and approvals. Perhaps that could be the reason that the court even vacated the stay order.
Perhaps most significantly, you felt nothing wrong with the guy being beaten up. Not worth commenting, because your hate doesn't let you feel if anyone is beaten up by mobs supported by cops.

I do not understand why these kinds of views are allowed where someone is openly being hateful to migrants. This is not the first and only instance. This is not okay. This is not a discussion.

Mods, merely editing is not done. It does not take away the hate.

Last edited by atnyia : 23rd June 2015 at 14:58.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:03   #1625
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
So, still no touts?
Seems to be an old video dated back to 2014 as shown in youtube.Are you sure it's a new video?

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 23rd June 2015 at 15:38. Reason: Removing Youtube URLs from quoted post.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:12   #1626
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

The clip has been heavily edited to be slanted towards the RTO. There is no information though, on what the man said or did in order for him to be beaten up. Not just evading the block and zooming ahead - did he abuse them or something.

The migrant vs local feeling tends to be mutual in some cases - social media, blogs etc full of people complaining that "locals don't speak hindi, all the food here is only idli-dosa, the kannada script is unreadable and looks like jalebis" etc etc. Some of that may have come through in this man's interaction with the cops, leading to the situation escalating.

Also - That guy in the white baseball cap was too neatly dressed to be a tout, frankly speaking. Plainclothes or off duty cop is my guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
Perhaps most significantly, you felt nothing wrong with the guy being beaten up. Not worth commenting, because your hate doesn't let you feel if anyone is beaten up by mobs supported by cops.

I do not understand why these kinds of views are allowed where someone is openly being hateful to migrants. This is not the first and only instance. This is not okay. This is not a discussion.

Mods, merely editing is not done. It does not take away the hate.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:22   #1627
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Originally Posted by hserus
deflating tyres of tempo travelers / buses etc parked in a colony and inconveniencing area residents.
I don't think what the police is doing is legally right. How ever with the local politicians also supporting them, they may get away with this. But they could easily clamp the wheels of the buses.

Quote:
There is no information though, on what the man said or did in order for him to be beaten up. Not just evading the block and zooming ahead - did he abuse them or something
Will try to watch the video from home network. The video clips these days also cannot be fully taken at face value. Was this during a tax collection drive? Did we know what the person who got bashed up said?

Quote:
The migrant vs local feeling tends to be mutual in some cases - social media, blogs etc full of people complaining that "locals don't speak hindi, all the food here is only idli-dosa, the kannada script is unreadable and looks like jalebis" etc etc.
If such a feeling gets stronger, then it would be worse situation than the LTT collection drive. If any group tries to show case the LTT collection drive as a local Kannadiga government v/s out sider, it is only going to aggravate the issue further. That would force people to take sides (because every one would have some pride in his region/state etc.). BTW, if people have such tall demands on even changing the local language script, I seriously feel they would have bigger problems coming their way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia
Perhaps most significantly, you felt nothing wrong with the guy being beaten up.
I did not see the video at all, as streaming video is blocked by my office.

Quote:
I do not understand why these kinds of views are allowed where someone is openly being hateful to migrants. This is not the first and only instance. This is not okay. This is not a discussion.
Where have I been hateful to migrants (or for that matter any group)? All I have been saying are that tax collection is a right of the state, and the amendment done on a Karnataka specific act followed the rule book. The other states too have similar laws, and they too can make suitable amendments. Now comes a simple question? For a person who finds this tax collection drive not to his liking. What choices does he have?
1. Stop using non-KA vehicles
2. Pay the LTT
3. In a worst case scenario march out of the place (again if that person has made up his mind). Because raving and ranting on internet forums, calling a legally valid amendment as a sham etc. would not be of any use. When you said - "Only Goondas can stay in Goondaraj", are'nt you labelling a whole group of local people as goons? So who is hateful of whom, comrade?

Last edited by sachinpk : 23rd June 2015 at 15:33. Reason: Multiple posts responded to at one shot.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:24   #1628
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
The migrant vs local feeling tends to be mutual in some cases.......
A govt. official is supposed to above these things when discharging his/her duty, else what's the difference between them and regionalism-fueled thugs?

I have a unique perspective of the whole thing because I'm a Kannadiga, but born & brought up in the northern parts so I can pass off for either easily, as I apparently don't even 'look' South Indian (as if there's a visual standard for that). I've had my fair share of local people (including cops) abusing me in certain situations, assuming I'm an 'outsider' until I let rip in the local lingo. I'm not against implementing law, but why the 'selective' implementation?
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:33   #1629
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
Perhaps most significantly, you felt nothing wrong with the guy being beaten up. Not worth commenting, because your hate doesn't let you feel if anyone is beaten up by mobs supported by cops.
You seem to have missed seeing the Honda City guy trying to escape and almost running over the 2 guys. Definitely, there is a natural reaction from those guys. In fact you can see other people shielding him from getting beaten up. This is basically road rage and I'm sure it happens even if a 'local' vehicle had done this. No need to generalize this as this has nothing to do with this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
I do not understand why these kinds of views are allowed where someone is openly being hateful to migrants. This is not the first and only instance. This is not okay. This is not a discussion.

Mods, merely editing is not done. It does not take away the hate.
I don't think there is any more hate here than there is anywhere else. Sachin has been posting on this thread in a cool and calm manner despite getting a lot of sarcasm and abuses in return. I don't know where you get the hate from?

Last edited by addyhemmige : 23rd June 2015 at 15:34.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:46   #1630
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
I understand your pent up feelings, but any person's immediate response would be - "Did Karnataka government put a gun on these people's head and asked them to come and work in Bengaluru or Karnataka??". The tax amendment was brought in after following the rules and approvals. Perhaps that could be the reason that the court even vacated the stay order.
I have been reading your arguments since a long time now, with you going on and on about this rule, that rule, this legislation etc, they fail to make sense from the common sense point of view, because of the following.

Karnataka Government is a part of India, ruling the state of Karnataka, namely the people in the government are called 'Government Servants', doing duty for the people, selected by the people. Karnataka or the people who come there are not gifted to these goons of the government by the almighty for them to make any laws they deem fit to change or implement. So firstly changing the law from 11 months to 1 month was done mainly to loot people, thug people, harass people and extort people.

I have asked you this before too, but u have never answer this question, let me ask you this again.

Question 1: My Dad's brother in law stays in Bangalore, My parents want to visit him on a holiday for 2 months in our Swift Diesel, Is it fair to ask me to pay a 15 year road tax for that ?

Question 2: If I got a 6 month internship with Mahindra Reva which has its head office in Electronic City and I will stay with my Fua who stays in Hanumanthnagar. I will bring my Swift Diesel along as there is no way I can travel this distance by public transport everyday. For 6 months, do you want me to pay the road tax, re register my car to KA and after 6 months, again claim the road tax back, de register my car and stick the MH number plates back again ? Does it make any common sense ?
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Old 23rd June 2015, 15:54   #1631
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Seems to be an old video dated back to 2014 as shown in youtube.Are you sure it's a new video?
What's the point? I pasted link from FB. Which was posted today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
The clip has been heavily edited to be slanted towards the RTO. There is no information though, on what the man said or did in order for him to be beaten up. Not just evading the block and zooming ahead - did he abuse them or something.

The migrant vs local feeling tends to be mutual in some cases - social media, blogs etc full of people complaining that "locals don't speak hindi, all the food here is only idli-dosa, the kannada script is unreadable and looks like jalebis" etc etc. Some of that may have come through in this man's interaction with the cops, leading to the situation escalating.

Also - That guy in the white baseball cap was too neatly dressed to be a tout, frankly speaking. Plainclothes or off duty cop is my guess.
At best a conspiracy theory. The guy looked quite frightened stepping out of car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
You seem to have missed seeing the Honda City guy trying to escape and almost running over the 2 guys. No need to generalize this as this has nothing to do with this thread.

I don't think there is any more hate here than there is anywhere else. Sachin has been posting on this thread in a cool and calm manner despite getting a lot of sarcasm and abuses in return. I don't know where you get the hate from?
I didn't miss. His car is Gurgaon registered and I face this kind of idiots daily on my way. I thank god when I reach home safely despite these idiots. He should have been booked but being beaten by mob supported by cops is not okay.
Be reasonable. When had Sachin been calm? He has been "ruffling feathers" alongwith taunting IT industry all the time. Sachin says he didn't see video but commented anyway, selectively as usual. He said "no one put a gun to anyone's head to come to bangalore". That's hate mate. Check his posts where he is training his gun at the migrants but conveniently side-stepping state govt's responsibility.

I am against double standards.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 16:00   #1632
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by humyum
I have been reading your arguments since a long time now, with you going on and on about this rule, that rule, this legislation etc, they fail to make sense from the common sense point of view, because of the following.
Yes, I have gained a lot by being on this thread. Self-learning on the legislations and the law making procedures in India. A person can take a stand that no taxes needs to be paid, because his common sense says tax collection is not required at all. No government any where in the world can allow people to have such a common sense .

Quote:
Karnataka Government is a part of India, ruling the state of Karnataka, namely the people in the government are called 'Government Servants', doing duty for the people, selected by the people
The same Indian government, through its constitution have allowed the state of Karnataka to have certain rights. One of those rights are the right to collect motor vehicle/road taxes. Using the "Government Servants" (who in this case are recruited by Karnataka government), the state is enforcing its own local rules on the people who are residing in the state.

Quote:
Karnataka or the people who come there are not gifted to these goons of the government by the almighty for them to make any laws they deem fit to change or implement. So firstly changing the law from 11 months to 1 month was done mainly to loot people, thug people, harass people and extort people.
Karnataka has amended its motor vehicle taxation fully following the due procedures. Or else people would have got that amendment cancelled. The intention of the state is to ensure that maximum revenue via the motor vehicle taxes would land up in its kitty. The 11 month rule had lots of gray areas, using which people could dodge the tax. If people still feel that the amendment is not valid, it has to be debated in the court of law. But until then, this would be the law which would be in force.

Quote:
Question 1: My Dad's brother in law stays in Bangalore, My parents want to visit him on a holiday for 2 months in our Swift Diesel, Is it fair to ask me to pay a 15 year road tax for that ?
This is not the question of being fair. It is the law of the land. Every law need not be really popular with every group of people. In the above case, your parents could visit the relative and even stay beyond the two months time period. Provided they don't use a non-KA vehicle. The state has not shut its doors on every one from outside the state.

Quote:
If I got a 6 month internship with Mahindra Reva which has its head office in Electronic City and I will stay with my Fua who stays in Hanumanthnagar. I will bring my Swift Diesel along as there is no way I can travel this distance by public transport everyday
You will have to figure it out yourself, as the state cannot amend its laws to help a minuscule of people. You can try a rent-a-car option, or do car pooling or fall back on public transport. If you insist that you would bring in the Swift Diesel, the state would just insist that pay the LTT as well. Citing common sense, we cannot run a state with no enforceable laws and every one just using the roads as they please. Please note, even the demand of allowing yearly payment of the tax only came up after KA RTO started their drive with even more vigour. Until then no one was even bothered about the whole thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia
He has been "ruffling feathers" alongwith taunting IT industry all the time.
Where have I been taunting IT industry? Yes I did say that IT folks do get better paid, than many of the other industries. And is that not correct? I also said that many of the IT folks have no problems in buying 50-80 lakhs (or more) worth apartments, but not in a mood to pay the state's road taxes. And my argument was that if a person can buy a home paying so much to settle down in this city, they can also pay a few extra lakhs as road taxes as well.

Quote:
He said "no one put a gun to anyone's head to come to bangalore". That's hate mate.
I don't know how you figured that this simple statement is a hate statement. Sir, if you do not wish to pay road taxes, then it is your duty to identify a place which does not collect road taxes and then move there. In Bangalore, fuel costs more, the rent advance is really huge (10 months) etc. etc. The list is endless. Try finding a solution, but if that does not work out what options does a person have. Either pay up and stay here, or move out. How does that become hate? It is a practical solution.

Last edited by sachinpk : 23rd June 2015 at 16:07. Reason: Response to multiple comments clubbed together.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 16:16   #1633
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

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Old 23rd June 2015, 16:17   #1634
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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....This is not the question of being fair........
And this is where the nub of the whole argument lies.

You believe the enforcer side of this debate (the government) has no obligation to be fair, because they're empowered by the Constitution to do what they want with taxation as a state matter while the citizenry has the obligation to follow the 'letter of the law', because their only recourse to justice is a broken system which will take ages to do anything, if ever. Your prior argument on this thread was 'the justice system is broken and will take time to fix'. Not quoted verbatim but you get the gist. This practically amounts to a citizen being at the whim of lawmakers who feel no obligation to treat citizens fairly, who in turn can't really do anything about the said unfair treatment in the absence of a robust judicial system to protect their interests.

What you conveniently overlook is the same Constitution is the overarching document of the Republic of India, and provides a citizen the right to move around and live in whatever part of the country he/she pleases, NOT subject to conditions. Anything that contravenes a citizen's constitutional rights is illegal and can't just be explained away by 'state's rights'. Fair treatment is a cornerstone of our Republic and any democracy, and the day we start debating that 'laws are not about being fair', there's something REALLY wrong with our Republic and democracy.

Can't hide behind the constitution only when it suits oneself, can we?


P.S. I do appreciate your standpoint that laws need to be followed (and I've done my bit when required) and wrong ones need to be changed the right way, but 'the law is the law' is not a valid argument. Laws were made to govern people, not the other way round.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 23rd June 2015 at 16:28. Reason: Grammar & spelling
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Old 23rd June 2015, 16:17   #1635
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Yes, I have gained a lot by being on this thread. Self-learning on the legislations and the law making procedures in India. A person can take a stand that no taxes needs to be paid, because his common sense says tax collection is not required at all. No government any where in the world can allow people to have such a common sense .
Sorry, again the argument makes no sense. I did not deny taxes being asked, I denied asking anyone to pay 15 year road tax for staying in KA for say a year or two or 6 months or whatever little the duration. Its like asking someone to buy a 15 year bus pass for travelling 2 months by bus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
The same Indian government, through its constitution have allowed the state of Karnataka to have certain rights. One of those rights are the right to collect motor vehicle/road taxes. Using the "Government Servants" (who in this case are recruited by Karnataka government), the state is enforcing its own local rules on the people who are residing in the state.
The rules which are prejudiced, which anyone in their right minds can see from 10 miles far. Mumbai is a land of dreams, Maharashtra Government has a lot of those rights too which the KA government has, what if people coming to Mumbai without a domicile certificate were charged entry fees for using the infrastructure of this place ? Sounds absurd, same as this 1 month road tax rule does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Karnataka has amended its motor vehicle taxation fully following the due procedures. Or else people would have got that amendment cancelled. The intention of the state is to ensure that maximum revenue via the motor vehicle taxes would land up in its kitty. The 11 month rule had lots of gray areas, using which people could dodge the tax. If people still feel that the amendment is not valid, it has to be debated in the court of law. But until then, this would be the law which would be in force.
Nazi Germany too had a these against the Jews in the name of the law and constitution. They could have made a yearly tax if they wanted to amend the law, but why did they chose to fill their kitties rather than makes lives easier for the 'outstation crowd' when they know Bangalore has a lot of these moving techie crowd, extortion can be a part of constitution too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
This is not the question of being fair. It is the law of the land. Every law need not be really popular with every group of people. In the above case, your parents could visit the relative and even stay beyond the two months time period. Provided they don't use a non-KA vehicle. The state has not shut its doors on every one from outside the state.
WHAT ? Every law needs to have legs to stand on. Drinking and Driving is dangerous because it causes accidents, Speed limits are in place because they cause accidents. People need to pay road tax if they bring their car for more than a month because ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
You will have to figure it out yourself, as the state cannot amend its laws to help a minuscule of people. You can try a rent-a-car option, or do car pooling or fall back on public transport. If you insist that you would bring in the Swift Diesel, the state would just insist that pay the LTT as well. Citing common sense, we cannot run a state with no enforceable laws and every one just using the roads as they please. Please note, even the demand of allowing yearly payment of the tax only came up after KA RTO started their drive with even more vigour. Until then no one was even bothered about the whole thing.
Those Miniscule people gave the Karnataka Government 1 crore rupees in that video in a single day.

Last edited by humyum : 23rd June 2015 at 16:23.
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