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Old 15th July 2014, 11:40   #586
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I hope the ruler of you can bring your vehicle to another state without paying road tax if its older than 2 years gets applied. Makes common sense. The pay the road tax if you are staying for more than one month is just gunda giri. It's my own country, I will move wherever I want, whenever I want without fear or harassment, otherwise they might as well make it into 29 countries and have Visas for each state.
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Old 15th July 2014, 11:45   #587
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I hope the ruler of you can bring your vehicle to another state without paying road tax if its older than 2 years gets applied. Makes common sense. The pay the road tax if you are staying for more than one month is just gunda giri. It's my own country, I will move wherever I want, whenever I want without fear or harassment, otherwise they might as well make it into 29 countries and have Visas for each state.
You can move wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that. You can take your car wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that as well. Just pay that road tax.
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Old 15th July 2014, 11:49   #588
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
You can move wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that. You can take your car wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that as well. Just pay that road tax.
I am not paying a road tax for getting my car to Bangalore for like 2 months and all. The law is preventing me by bringing out such laws. Like someone mentioned, middle class people, bringing small hatchbacks, not staying for too long at a particular place, haggle with my state for refunding the tax, haggle with cops till then to prove I am here since XX time. This is extortion.
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Old 15th July 2014, 11:57   #589
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I am not paying a road tax for getting my car to Bangalore for like 2 months and all. The law is preventing me by bringing out such laws. Like someone mentioned, middle class people, bringing small hatchbacks, not staying for too long at a particular place, haggle with my state for refunding the tax, haggle with cops till then to prove I am here since XX time. This is extortion.
You paid tax for driving in the state you registered your car. If you want to drive in another one, you should pay tax according to the other state's laws. Simple, ain't it? It definitely does not violate your right to travel to any other state and settle there.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:14   #590
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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You can move wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that. You can take your car wherever you want, the law isn't preventing that as well. Just pay that road tax.
You don't think of that as a restriction? In my opinion it is - the only thing to debate is whether it is reasonable or not. The government is allowed only to put reasonable restrictions on constitutional rights. The test of reasonable-ness will happen in a court, assuming someone challenges this law.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:25   #591
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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You don't think of that as a restriction? In my opinion it is - the only thing to debate is whether it is reasonable or not. The government is allowed only to put reasonable restrictions on constitutional rights. The test of reasonable-ness will happen in a court, assuming someone challenges this law.
See, the law says that you have to pay road tax to drive on the roads, and that is a reasonable restriction. That is the same thing you do in your home state too. You paid tax there, which you didn't believe was an unreasonable restriction.

BTW, if you amend the law to say that you only have to register once in any state and then you could move your car anywhere, everybody would register their cars in Pondicherry.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:34   #592
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
BTW, if you amend the law to say that you only have to register once in any state and then you could move your car anywhere, everybody would register their cars in Pondicherry.
In business sense, If you cannot compete with Pondicherry face the consequences of loosing tax money, wish we had such law . Then all states would have sat together and agreed for same tax rates.

Really its time to get one India tax rates, else it will get really messy going forward. The Motor cycle tax act are very old, they consider only Central govt employee moves from state to state, so they only can pay yearly tax. Now the reality is more people move from state to state from private firms than central govt.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:34   #593
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
You paid tax for driving in the state you registered your car. If you want to drive in another one, you should pay tax according to the other state's laws. Simple, ain't it? It definitely does not violate your right to travel to any other state and settle there.
The authorities are interested to collect Taxes only. They should show the same vigour in case of Tax Refunds too. Holding on to someone's money and asking some one to pay is something like I won't go by the rules in case of refund but I will go by rules to collect tax.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:35   #594
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
See, the law says that you have to pay road tax to drive on the roads, and that is a reasonable restriction. That is the same thing you do in your home state too. You paid tax there, which you didn't believe was an unreasonable restriction.
Maybe I was not clear (but I have posted this point before in this thread itself). The reasonable-ness question is not about the amount of tax, it is about the time given to be compliant. My view is that the earlier 1 year is reasonable, but the present 1 month isn't - but of course the point has to be argued in a court.

It isn't about the rupee value of the hit I have to take, though there is another rather amorphous question of reasonable-ness about the quantum of tax. Let us leave that is for another day.

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BTW, if you amend the law to say that you only have to register once in any state and then you could move your car anywhere, everybody would register their cars in Pondicherry.
Yes - until all other states match PY's registration rates. Then it becomes more expensive to register in PY because one has to bear the additional cost of bringing the vehicle over. That is basic economic theory of markets at work.
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Old 15th July 2014, 12:56   #595
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Times have changed, so must change the rules too!
  1. Need flexibility in payment - yearly vs life time
  2. Need provision to pay incremental amount if the tax rate is higher in the new location
  3. New faster settlement in case of refund

Instead, what Karnataka govt did is just undemocratic. How many PY registered cars worth more than 50L were caught in this drive? Can they provide the numbers? I bet, there will be none!
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Old 15th July 2014, 13:00   #596
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

This is a pretty long and exhaustive thread for views on the members of this forum on the issue with non KA registered cars. The video that went live on News 9 with an MP registered cars highlights precisely what should be avoided when confronted with officials from the Transport department. Bangalore Traffic Police have made it amply clear over many Facebook threads that this isn't their problem.

At the cost of sounding repetitive I had to admit that the rule as it stays is legal and will be enforced by the State as it pleases it. We are expected to abide by them. Amendments are surely needed, 1 month is too small a time to enforce and as the Central Govt has advised the state the period is apparently 3 months but nothing is on the record to cement that view except the Ministry of Road Transport's clarification via their Facebook page which got coverage in Bangalore Mirror.

From how I see it we have three sets of people involved in this saga:

1) Migrants to Bangalore who bring automobiles from their previous city or employment. This also includes people who register their automobiles in their home town because it's cheaper to do so. (In TN a vehicle > 10 L pays 10% LTT, > 10 L is 15% LTT, still cheaper than KA)
2) Travelling professionals who are in and out of Bangalore for business and this could be a recurring phenomenon.
3) Tourists.

The third category needn't worry at all, there is paranoia on this front that people are writing in to Bangalore Traffic Police asking if their vehicle will be impounded while they were touring the state. The straight answer is no.

The first category need to take this amendment in their stride and figure out ways to remain legally compliant, isn't that was law abiding is all about? Yes, the taxes are high. So are the rents. So are the salaries. Does that deter us from taking up accommodation? What we are exposed to is a legal grey area between an overzealous and a Central statute. But face up to reality and spend those extra bucks and live with peace of mind in not having to worry if the wife's car will be seized because it's an MP, OD, TN, KA, MH, AP, GJ, GA, XX ... number plate.

We cannot wage a war against the state on this issue but we can try to make a statement to the policy makers and hopefully cause a change of mind. But that would involve us having to get of our high moral horses on social media and show up in Vidhan Soudha and make representations to our legislature to see what we are going through and bring about a change. This is slow but we might get heard. We can approach the courts for some relief, it might not be as slow but this amendment to the taxation law done in Feb was to subvert a judicial (High Court) stricture in the first place by the executive, the courts might not want to get into a confrontation with the executive.

The second category also has nothing to worry I guess, it shouldn't be difficult to prove one's nomadic status with toll receipts, pollution certificate, fuel bills, vehicle's service history etc. If push comes to show an appeal to the Transport Commissioner will most certainly settle things in the vehicle owner's favour. I personally have seen RTO officials (near Puttenahalli lake) let vehicles go, mostly TN or KL, upon perusal of recent enough toll receipts.

Finally, bad behaviour can only cause more problems. There is no reason to behave in a manner that isn't gentlemanly with govt officials no matter what the provocation. Throwing tantrums, like that young lady did on camera on Richmond road isn't going to help the cause one bit.
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Old 15th July 2014, 13:43   #597
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
Maybe I was not clear (but I have posted this point before in this thread itself). The reasonable-ness question is not about the amount of tax, it is about the time given to be compliant. My view is that the earlier 1 year is reasonable, but the present 1 month isn't - but of course the point has to be argued in a court.
I will rephrase, the law is unfair. And for that matter, every law is unfair to at least one person. The whole point that law was required. My original objection was to the suggestion that the law hinders free movement within the country, which was what I was trying to object to. Unfair, yes. But you can still pay tax and move, or move without the car.
Quote:
It isn't about the rupee value of the hit I have to take, though there is another rather amorphous question of reasonable-ness about the quantum of tax. Let us leave that is for another day.
I would be happy if they allowed people to pay for a year, but a different rule for out-of-station vehicles would be unfair to local vehicles that paid life-tax.
Quote:
Yes - until all other states match PY's registration rates. Then it becomes more expensive to register in PY because one has to bear the additional cost of bringing the vehicle over. That is basic economic theory of markets at work.
Yes, but PY is under the central govt, and while the center gets to print money to generate revenue, the states do not. Also the theory of markets do not work here. Road tax is kind of a ticket to ride on the road. So you cannot buy a ticket at PVR and watch a movie at INOX. So if PY is cheaper, you gotta go to PY, buy a car and live there.

Last edited by blacksport : 15th July 2014 at 13:47.
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Old 15th July 2014, 14:23   #598
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum
It's my own country, I will move wherever I want, whenever I want without fear or harassment, otherwise they might as well make it into 29 countries and have Visas for each state.
Road taxes are under the perview of state governments and it is as per the federal structure envisioned in the constitution. People also have other means to move around - trains, public transport buses, flights etc. It is only one mode of travel - that of private cars which is an issue.

Quote:
I am not paying a road tax for getting my car to Bangalore for like 2 months and all.
All the best! In case such vehicles are stopped, the RTO is impounding the vehicle then and there. So tough luck in case you get stopped in one of those checks .

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamanth
In business sense, If you cannot compete with Pondicherry face the consequences of loosing tax money, wish we had such law
That would not fly . Bangalore is a hot cake now because of the job market etc. etc. Do you see people running to Pondicherry looking for a job? . No. Karnataka Govt. also knows that. And they would not reduce the tax rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand
Yes - until all other states match PY's registration rates. Then it becomes more expensive to register in PY because one has to bear the additional cost of bringing the vehicle over. That is basic economic theory of markets at work.
Why should each state break its head trying to compete with Pondicherry? Pondicherry can go with a 0% road tax. Other states would just wait for PY vehicles to step out of the state borders. Or else Pondicherry should be such a happening place where people are encouraged to go and settle down. Until then it would only be used by vehicle owners to get their vehicles registered. And then there would be long term problems, which we are discussing now.
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Old 15th July 2014, 14:28   #599
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post

I would be happy if they allowed people to pay for a year, but a different rule for out-of-station vehicles would be unfair to local vehicles that paid life-tax.

Not sure how it would be unfair for local vehicles. It is not that the out station vehicles have not paid a tax at all though it might be in another state. The out station vehicles are paying an annual tax for the period they are using the roads of the particular state. Local vehicles are by default considered to use it for the lifetime. Infact it is an added loss which outstation vehicle owners are ready to bear considering no money would be refunded back by the registered state RTO in such cases for such periods. So if a out station vehicle pays annual tax for 3 yrs.. it would be in addition to the LTT paid by him at the time of registration. But something lot of people would prefer doing rather than cough up a huge amount in the name of LTT.

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Old 15th July 2014, 14:46   #600
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by haljosgeo View Post
We cannot wage a war against the state on this issue but we can try to make a statement to the policy makers and hopefully cause a change of mind. But that would involve us having to get of our high moral horses on social media and show up in Vidhan Soudha and make representations to our legislature to see what we are going through and bring about a change. This is slow but we might get heard. We can approach the courts for some relief, it might not be as slow but this amendment to the taxation law done in Feb was to subvert a judicial (High Court) stricture in the first place by the executive, the courts might not want to get into a confrontation with the executive.
that would be like begging the devil for mercy. The main institution that is obliged to protect central laws is the central govt. The central govt intervening directly in this matter can resolve this rather quickly, especially if the state govt refuses comply on directives.

Avoid courts altogether and file petition with central govt, they can cut down on state funds and refund all those illegally taxed directly through funds allocated to state govt from central pool. Once the overtly smart state govt realizes that their drive is resulting in no real revenue addition, it will look elsewhere.
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