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Old 15th July 2014, 19:42   #616
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
You are refusing to see the point. You can still move around, there is no restriction on that. But your car can't, until you pay the tax to run in that state. That's reasonable, isn't it?

Again, why should they care whether you paid tax elsewhere?
Baba, move around means move around with my vehicle, I obviously know I can move around anywhere in India without any soul stopping me anywhere. My car can't is the issue Why will I move to bangalore for some months and not get my car and spend tons on ricks, taxis or wait for buses and public transport when I own a car? Why will I move to Bangalore for some months and pay a 15 years ka road tax ? Do you go to a movie theater to watch a movie or two every weekend and buy tickets for 5 years ka every weekend ka movie show kya ?

They should care because I am an Indian citizen and I paid tax to an Indian state for driving a car which I legally brought in India for the purpose of plying on Indian roads. They should care because I am the citizen of a country in which the state of Karnataka belongs, its a different state in the same country we are talking about, not a different country.

And its a car I am getting along, not nuclear material or RDX that the state government has to act like a hooligan and extort money from me in a months time I land in Bangalore. Not everyone can afford to pay 50 , 60 and 1 lakh rupees upfront like that for a car which they have got some months or years back.

I don't get, how this is so difficult for anyone to understand ?
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Old 15th July 2014, 19:51   #617
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Why will I move to bangalore for some months and not get my car and spend tons on ricks, taxis or wait for buses and public transport when I own a car? Why will I move to Bangalore for some months and pay a 15 years ka road tax ? Do you go to a movie theater to watch a movie or two every weekend and buy tickets for 5 years ka every weekend ka movie show kya ?
?
This exactly is the logic behind the move. To discourage the people coming for short stays ,bring in their cars. In areas like Whitefield, you have more than 75% floating population, so if everyone start bringing cars or bikes registered in their home states, KA govt is not going to get any revenue out of road taxes. Also this is gross injustice to owners of KA registered cars who have paid through their noses, only to find roads crowded with other state cars.
During my visit to Mumbai, i found the Mumbai police much worse than Bangalore police. In a span of 4 hours I was flagged down thrice, simply because I had a KA registered car.

Last edited by poloman : 15th July 2014 at 19:59.
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Old 15th July 2014, 21:02   #618
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This exactly is the logic behind the move. To discourage the people coming for short stays ,bring in their cars. In areas like Whitefield, you have more than 75% floating population, so if everyone start bringing cars or bikes registered in their home states, KA govt is not going to get any revenue out of road taxes.
If that is the logic, then we can only admire the collective intelligence of the 224 worthies selected by the denizens of Karnataka. Of course I would go, "Damn! I have to pay 50K LTT if I take my car to Bangalore for my six-month assignment! My only option now is to buy a car in Bangalore and pay LTT just so that I could use it for that duration!". :-)

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Also this is gross injustice to owners of KA registered cars who have paid through their noses, only to find roads crowded with other state cars.
And this is parochialism. What was the reaction in Bangalore when a bunch of goons in Mumbai started going after people from a couple of specific states? Can we spell hypocrisy?
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Old 15th July 2014, 21:10   #619
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This exactly is the logic behind the move. To discourage the people coming for short stays ,bring in their cars. In areas like Whitefield, you have more than 75% floating population, so if everyone start bringing cars or bikes registered in their home states, KA govt is not going to get any revenue out of road taxes. Also this is gross injustice to owners of KA registered cars who have paid through their noses, only to find roads crowded with other state cars.
During my visit to Mumbai, i found the Mumbai police much worse than Bangalore police. In a span of 4 hours I was flagged down thrice, simply because I had a KA registered car.
if bangalore calls itself the IT hub of india, it should also be ready to live up to this name. IT population is a migrating crowd. They move within the country and even abroad for short period stays. No one in the right state of mind wants to drive freely here. We are all ready to pay an annual tax for the time we stay here. That way KA govt is not going to loss out on the revenue. Keeping a 1 month rule and taking LTT for 15yrs with practically less chance of getting a refund is more of a exploitation of a common mans situation.

Coming to the part where KA registered cars have to pay through the nose, how can outstation owners be held responsible for it. Just made some high level calculations based on the situation. Took some numbers just for ease of calculation.

- Assume 10 migrant people decide to buy a car with ex-showroom price of say 10lacs. These people have the option to buy in their state also.
- Of 10 lets say 4 decide to buy it from ka and the rest 6 from their states to save on the LTT.
- In KA the LTT for cars with ex-showroom price of 10lacs or more is 18% which would mean Rs1,80,000+cess. On road price with insurance would be approx 12lacs.
- Govt gets 7,20,000 (4x1,80,000) as taxes.
No calculations for the outstation purchases since its irrelevant here.
- Now suppose the road tax in KA was around 10%-12% in par with the neighbouring states
- 8 out of the 10 may decide to buy it from here.
- LTT would be min of 1,00,000 per car. For 8 cars govt would make a min of 8,00,000.
So which is better for all. The buyer gets the car at a lower price while the chances of govt to get revenue is still higher. For existing out-station car owners, an annual tax option can be introduced to generate further revenue. So though there is the option for the govt to get a good amount of revenue, they just want more. Now if you are the voting population of karnataka you should be collectively taking up the matter with the govt and try bringing down the LTT for your benefit.

And as such I dont think the roads are crowded by outstation vehicles... If traffic is the issue then even if this floating crowd buys cars from karnataka, it would still crowd the roads.


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Old 15th July 2014, 21:15   #620
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
This exactly is the logic behind the move. To discourage the people coming for short stays ,bring in their cars. In areas like Whitefield, you have more than 75% floating population, so if everyone start bringing cars or bikes registered in their home states, KA govt is not going to get any revenue out of road taxes. Also this is gross injustice to owners of KA registered cars who have paid through their noses, only to find roads crowded with other state cars.
During my visit to Mumbai, i found the Mumbai police much worse than Bangalore police. In a span of 4 hours I was flagged down thrice, simply because I had a KA registered car.
Why not have a visa system in place too for people then ? Seal all borders and have entrance points, they populate your dear Bangalore too with their numbers .You are just one step short of suggesting Karnataka as a new country.

And how are we responsible for your state having higher road tax than the rest?

There are 5 DN registered cars in my building, all plying in proper bombay at any part of the day, no one has ever caught them. I have NEVER ever heard of anyone being caught in Mumbai for driving any state's cars and I know quite a few people who have come from Gujarat, Rajasthan and yes Karnataka who drive their cars in Mumbai.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
Karnataka. Of course I would go, "Damn! I have to pay 50K LTT if I take my car to Bangalore for my six-month assignment! My only option now is to buy a car in Bangalore and pay LTT just so that I could use it for that duration!". :-)

Yeah, Imagine that. It won't feel like we live in a big mass of land called India when a thing like car you can't use for some months in another state. What a divide !

Last edited by humyum : 15th July 2014 at 21:21.
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Old 15th July 2014, 21:33   #621
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Even I am not from Bangalore or Karnataka. So please keep regionalism away from such debates. I agree they should accept annual tax rather than LTT. But keeping the road taxes high may be an administrative decision taken looking in to the registration volumes and the infrastructure limitations.Every law will have some downside. But so long as the law exists try to follow it.
We are talking about cars here not about people. So leave aside the visa and sealing borders fundas. And please retrospect when you are glorifying a city where few son of soil political parties wanted similar restrictions on poor migrants, forget cars.
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Old 15th July 2014, 23:06   #622
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Originally Posted by humyum View Post

Baba, move around means move around with my vehicle, I obviously know I can move around anywhere in India without any soul stopping me anywhere. My car can't is the issue
Your car can move with you, pay tax.
Quote:
Why will I move to bangalore for some months and not get my car and spend tons on ricks, taxis or wait for buses and public transport when I own a car? Why will I move to Bangalore for some months and pay a 15 years ka road tax ? Do you go to a movie theater to watch a movie or two every weekend and buy tickets for 5 years ka every weekend ka movie show kya ?
You buy a ticket for the entire length of the movie. You don't say, I want to watch for 15 mins, so I would pay 10% of the ticket. There is a min time period specified by the govt.
Quote:
They should care because I am an Indian citizen and I paid tax to an Indian state for driving a car which I legally brought in India for the purpose of plying on Indian roads. They should care because I am the citizen of a country in which the state of Karnataka belongs, its a different state in the same country we are talking about, not a different country.
You paid the tax for your own state, not the entire country.
Quote:
And its a car I am getting along, not nuclear material or RDX that the state government has to act like a hooligan and extort money from me in a months time I land in Bangalore. Not everyone can afford to pay 50 , 60 and 1 lakh rupees upfront like that for a car which they have got some months or years back.

I don't get, how this is so difficult for anyone to understand ?
If you don't have the money to pay the tax, don't bring the car. There is a check post at every state border, and that is to make sure that no commodity enters the territory in violation of any local tax regulation. That ain't difficult to understand, right?

The law is there for good reason, some inconveniences do occur.

Last edited by blacksport : 15th July 2014 at 23:08.
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Old 15th July 2014, 23:09   #623
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
We are talking about cars here not about people. So leave aside the visa and sealing borders fundas. And please retrospect when you are glorifying a city where few son of soil political parties wanted similar restrictions on poor migrants, forget cars.
And how much popular support did that get in Mumbai ? NONE at all, absolutely ZILCH. Infact he had a case filed against him for hate speech.

Like I said, everyone is welcome here, thanks for pointing out an example which clearly shows that again.

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post

You buy a ticket for the entire length of the movie. You don't say, I want to watch for 15 mins, so I would pay 10% of the ticket. There is a min time period specified by the govt.
So staying for some months in Bangalore is 15 minutes of a movie and 15 years life time tax is the entire movie. Your jokes keep getting better. Yeah the minimum time period specified by the government itself is a joke for cars coming from outstation. Heck people go for a summer vacation to other states sometimes for more than a month with their car, are you suggesting, I go to my Fua's house in Bangalore for a holiday for 2 months with my car and I pay 15 years or road tax which comes to around 60-70 thousand for a 6 year old car. Bravo. The government can specify whatever it wants, if it does not make sense, it does not make sense.

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You paid the tax for your own state, not the entire country.
So what ? 1 month is still a pretty short time to pay a life time tax for just for some months of using Bangalore or Karnataka roads specially when I am the citizen of the same country the state belongs to.


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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
If you don't have the money to pay the tax, don't bring the car. There is a check post at every state border, and that is to make sure that no commodity enters the territory in violation of any local tax regulation. That ain't difficult to understand, right?
That's convenient of you to say, why don't you lot start charging oxygen charges too for breathing the air in Bangalore or for an additional outsiders tax for using your public transport system. Outsiders are increasing the CO2 content too and crowding the public transport system which are made just for the locals who are paying the taxes in the state. Like Duh !

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
The law is there for good reason, some inconveniences do occur.
Yes, the law is there for good reason and the reason they are catching everyone as if they were guilty and harassing the hell out of them and allowing them to go free only after a CBI type investigation. PLEASE SPARE the JAZZ about law being there for a good reason.

Anyway we are going round and round in circles. I am sure the loot will stop sooner or later as this will get widespread publicity and Mr Nitin Gadkari will sure turn some screws around.

Last edited by humyum : 15th July 2014 at 23:25.
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Old 15th July 2014, 23:57   #624
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Anyway we are going round and round in circles. I am sure the loot will stop sooner or later as this will get widespread publicity and Mr Nitin Gadkari will sure turn some screws around.
So much for not wanting to pay taxes. This country is going to the dogs because of tax evaders. Why blame the corrupt politicians when the people are no better? Road transport is a state subject, and as long as the constitution is intact, state taxes are here to stay. :-)
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Old 16th July 2014, 00:09   #625
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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So what ? 1 month is still a pretty short time to pay a life time tax for just for some months of using Bangalore or Karnataka roads specially when I am the citizen of the same country the state belongs to.
i am not sure what you are trying to tell here. There is a law that clearly tells that any stay in a particular town for more than 6 months for a vehicle warrants the state tax to be paid, provided the car owner is not able to prove that the car has been going out and in of the state by providing the toll receipts. Also, what i see is a clear audacity of people wanting to use the roads without paying for them. Breaking the law does not solve problems. If there is so much of an issue paying the registration charges in Bangalore, raise a PIL for the same instead of breaking the law by not paying the charge and justifying it.
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Old 16th July 2014, 01:17   #626
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I wonder if the authorities are this enthusiastic about refunding life time tax for those who move out of the state.

Ok, you guys can stop laughing now.

But seriously, either the LTT should be converted to annual tax, payable online just like property tax in Bangalore, OR, the refund system should be streamlined to make it a smooth and doable process.
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Old 16th July 2014, 07:20   #627
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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During my visit to Mumbai, i found the Mumbai police much worse than Bangalore police. In a span of 4 hours I was flagged down thrice, simply because I had a KA registered car.
Good to see the virus is spreading. Soon we should come up with a system where we park cars at the state borders so we do not intrude by taking our cars across states.

Sarcasm aside, we have become so accustomed to the Indian way where we assume we are guilty unless we are able to prove our innocence. If revenue loss is the state's concern, they should be able to work out a way to get that money transfer from the state concerned once an application ius submitted, rather than put the onus on the citizens to retrieve the money and then pay to another state. Fact of the matter is that we do not buy cars without paying any road tax. The road tax component exists across all states, and having a uniform amount is the only way to avoid such blatant harassment.
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Old 16th July 2014, 07:30   #628
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I have four more days of breathing space for my bullet here in KA.Question here, If I see an RTO check on the road, can I voluntarily pay the LTT there and then get a reciept of it? The lazy part of me doesn't want to go through the process of getting an NOC,visiting the RTO office, paying bribe etc etc..
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Old 16th July 2014, 10:19   #629
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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I have four more days of breathing space for my bullet here in KA.Question here, If I see an RTO check on the road, can I voluntarily pay the LTT there and then get a reciept of it? The lazy part of me doesn't want to go through the process of getting an NOC,visiting the RTO office, paying bribe etc etc..
It should be possible. Around 15 years back I had brought my father's scooter to Bangalore (as I could not afford another vehicle). And the Traffic Police and RTO used to stop my vehicle, and soon I was fed up with this. I approached a Driving School, who suggested a way out. He collected the life tax+his commission and went to the RTO office, and got a tax-paid receipt. I had paid the tax, and the RTO issued the receipt. So KA state got the money.

What the agent bye-passed was the process of getting NOC from my mother state and getting a new KA number. The records were made in such a way that the RTO had stopped me during a routine check. I then volunteered to pay the life time tax (Rs. 5000/- odd, you see I carry lots of money with me in my wallet ) on the spot. So he collected the money and issued me a receipt. Next time any Traffic Police or RTO stopped me; all I had to do was to show the tax paid receipt. And I used the vehicle in KA for the next 6 odd years.
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Old 16th July 2014, 10:26   #630
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I can use some advice on this.

I will be bringing my 72 Fiat soon. Its KL registered. The car has a fitness certificate. I don't see myself moving out of Bangalore any time soon and will be driving this car once in a while.

Do I re register or just pay up road tax? I'd be interested to know what they charge for a car this old.
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